Not so "nice" list of roses

sara_ann-z6bokDecember 21, 2013

This may not be in the Christmas Spirit, but I've been thinking lately about some of the roses I have had in the past, that I would love to put on my "nice" list but can't. I'll name a few -

Tournament of Roses
Sunset Celebration
Ingrid Bergman
Chicago Peace
Gold Medal
Just Joey
American Pride

I wanted all of these roses to perform good for me, and there may be some that if I tried them again would do really great.

I was wondering if any of you have or have had any that you can't put on the "nice" list?

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After a lot of trial and error I learned that it is usually not the roses that are not "nice", it is just that my gardening conditions are not what they like. So, I try to only plant roses which DO like my gardening conditions. A rose that does horribly here may do very well someplace else, so I try not to label roses "good" or "bad".

I had to learn this by trial and error because most of the traditional rose books (although the newer ones are getting better) and the ARS, etc. still pretend that all roses are good for all conditions. That is poppycock!

My garden is basically good for all old roses which like warmer conditions and dry Summers. It is not so good for HTs, except some of the very old ones. Also not so good for the old European once blooming roses, which need colder Winters. Also, we tend to have wet Springs, so any old rose which is REALLY double will probably ball, so I stay away from those.

So, I have lots of re-blooming old roses such as teas, chinas, polyanthas, hybrid musks, and once blooming old roses that like heat such as banksias, hybrid giganteas, and a few old ramblers.

If you look around the town you live in, and local public gardens, you will notice which roses look happy most of the time. Plant them, or ones like them, and you will have happier roses.


    Bookmark   December 21, 2013 at 10:44AM
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ratdogheads(5b NH)

I've only ever grown one rose that I disliked enough to complain about: Kordes Purple Rain. It had rave reviews and I had such high hopes that I bought three. The blooms fried as soon as they opened, then the spent blooms wouldn't shed. I don't really mind deadheading, but what a nuisance when it's dozens of tiny little blooms on a short very thorny shrub. No reward for deadheading, nearly no repeat. Finally, it black-spotted and dropped its leaves. Yuck!

    Bookmark   December 21, 2013 at 2:14PM
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ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9

Classic Woman - worst case of mildew I've ever encountered

Glamis Castle - vicious thorns and an unpleasant "fragrance"

China Doll - just wouldn't bloom or thrive in my garden

Earth Song - gorgeous in many garden, sulks and won't grow or bloom in mine. Is growing blackspot, however.

Charles Darwin - started out well and then deteriorated

    Bookmark   December 21, 2013 at 2:35PM
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Tessiess, SoCal Inland, 9b, 1272' elev

On the coal and switches list for my garden conditions (Mediterranean climate):

Napoleon (china)--MILDEW

Europeana (floribunda)--mildew

Archduke Charles (china)--horrible rust

Tipsy Imperial Concubine(tea)--blackspot, flowers ball, brown

Ducher (china)--terminal mildew, grew backwards and died

La Biche(tea)--terminal mildew, grew backwads and died

Niles Cochet(tea) (likely misidentified but really Francis
Dubreuil/Barcelona)--blackspot, mildew, AND rust!

Caroline Marniesse (noisette)--dreadful dry heat tolerance, reliably wilts all summer long when other rose neighbors, even the same age don't

Camelia Rose (noisette)--arrived as a big plant in a 3 or 5 gallon pot (forget!)--started growing backwards as soon as planted (in a prime location) and was dead in less than a year.

Archduke Charles, Tipsy, and Niles were all given away. Don't know if any of them are still alive.

The best roses for me are albas, gallicas, damasks, portlands, hybrid perpetuals, polyanthas, rugosas, ramblers, and species.

Here is a picture of the china Napoleon. It is not my favorite look in a rose but is typical for a china if grown here.


    Bookmark   December 21, 2013 at 2:45PM
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Tessiess, SoCal Inland, 9b, 1272' elev

Duplicate deleted

This post was edited by Tessiess on Sat, Dec 21, 13 at 14:52

    Bookmark   December 21, 2013 at 2:47PM
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nanadollZ7 SWIdaho(Zone 7 Boise SW Idaho)

On the Krampus naughty list:

Heaven on Earth-not around to receive coal; began dying back, and the next spring I put it out of its misery.

Sweetness--grew backward and produced ugly blooms that shriveled immediately.

Sisters Fairy Tale--ol' spider legs is still around, but Krampus will get it.

Party Dress--soggy balled up mess winner; must go.

Caramel Antike--is perpetually on my naughty list, but saves itself in the end.

Pink Traviata--sang her last aria a year ago; what a prima donna.

New Dawn--has gone over to the dark side and joined Team Krampus.

Miss Alice--was a nasty little witchlike thing around here. Has joined New Dawn on the dark side

I plan to gift all the good little roses with lots of Rose Tone for Christmas, or a little later. Merry Christmas, everyone. May most of your roses be on the "nice" list.


    Bookmark   December 21, 2013 at 3:45PM
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Here's the newbie back again...a couple of you mention "growing backwards." What does that mean?

    Bookmark   December 21, 2013 at 5:55PM
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Tessiess, SoCal Inland, 9b, 1272' elev

Duplicate deleted

This post was edited by Tessiess on Sat, Dec 21, 13 at 21:36

    Bookmark   December 21, 2013 at 7:25PM
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Tessiess, SoCal Inland, 9b, 1272' elev

Growing backwards just means that instead of growing bigger with time, they get smaller, heading towards the ground instead of the sky.;) Eventually they croak, and in my experience it doesn't take long. For Ducher and La Biche, they were both dead within 2 years.


    Bookmark   December 21, 2013 at 9:31PM
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garden2garden(z8 FL)

I wouldn't have even thought about it, I had it such a short time, but you mentioned Ducher. My Ducher absolutely grew backwards, it was never happy and died within months.

Glamis Castle, yes, thanks Ingrid, it's been so long since I had it, I couldn't remember which castle that was. The flowers looked great while it lived and once in a while they smelled almost ok, but mostly not. Many skinny twigs covered with many little thorns that will rip your skin to shreds.

Sorry all you New Dawn lovers. I've seen pictures of her looking so big and beautiful so I know she can do it(that's why I got it) I guess she just doesn't like it by me. Few flowers, no smell. Big stiff arms with big ugly thorns that will make you bleed. I do still have a small one in a pot but the big one went (couldn't help but lol at nanadoll's) "over to the dark side"...

    Bookmark   December 21, 2013 at 10:40PM
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Campanula UK Z8

Too many to list - I suspect I have some sort of shrub intolerance syndrome but there are many, many which have been on the end of scathing complaint (from me) and invariably, such roses tend to have numerous ardent fans on this forum. As it is Christmas (or Winterval, as we term it in our household), I am resisting my usual corrosive least for the duration of this post.

    Bookmark   December 22, 2013 at 7:01AM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

#1 Abraham Darby who has coated himself in an amazing amount of rust.

#2 The original Golden Celebration who is doing nothing....still. But if my knee agrees will find its self dug up and moved for a second chance.

#3 Queen Elizabeth. Mostly for only bothering with a few handfuls of blooms all season

#4 St Patrick for only having a few more than QE. Both have heard the shovel is coming for them to relocate them so they are trying to bloom again.

    Bookmark   December 22, 2013 at 12:13PM
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seil zone 6b MI

Climbing Peace was a total dud for me. NEVER bloomed!

Snowfire was the thorniest, most awful disease magnet ever. For the handful of blooms it produced it wasn't worth the effort.

I had huge hopes for Easy Does it and Disneyland Rose, they got such wonderful hype! Both of them only grew backwards and died.

Just Joey was gorgeous! But it was such a weak plant and finally didn't winter.

There are probably dozens more but like Jackie said, these didn't do well for me but could be wonderful for you and the only way to know is to try them!

    Bookmark   December 22, 2013 at 1:46PM
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Growing backwards. That just makes so much sense now, duh! I guess that's what my lavender HT is doing. I'm still looking at all the roses suggested. :)

    Bookmark   December 22, 2013 at 8:44PM
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Probably the only couple roses I can think of that I'd dump, are OREGOLD and HEIRLOOM. Neither one has done that great, and the blooms are pretty boring.

    Bookmark   December 22, 2013 at 9:41PM
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sammy zone 7 Tulsa

Sara-Ann, I also live in Oklahoma. I do not spray, and only grow older teas, chinas, bourbons, and hybrid musks. I do not want once bloomers.

Some roses that do not need spray do not look good in my garden since I mainly use the older varieties. Many of these roses are listed in other places, and I don't want to hijack your post by going there.

Once I decided to purge roses that needed spray, i was left with only a few modern ones. Many of those are Buck roses, but I purged most of my Bucks also.

Sammy (in Tulsa)

    Bookmark   December 23, 2013 at 7:29AM
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view1ny NY 6-7

Kippy, my Queen Elizabeth behaves the same as yours. It just stands around all season & puts out a few flowers. This rose got all sorts of awards & I was expecting a lot more.

Same for Brite Eyes. It's supposed to be a climber & it didn't grow at all last season. Just put out a few (beautiful) pink & yellow single flowers. such a disappointment.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2013 at 10:43AM
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dan_keil_cr Keil(Illinois z5)

I have a huge list of bad little roses. I'll keep it short
Love and Peace-dog
Karen Blixxen better whites
Garden Party not enough blooms
Crepe de Chine doesn't bloom enough
Top Contender dog
Yellow Bird Dog

    Bookmark   December 23, 2013 at 2:59PM
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Thanks everyone, this has been interesting. Appreciate your ideas Sammy. I am just now beginning to grow a few of the older roses, don't know enough yet how they are going to do for me. For the most part I've had really good success with hybrid teas and floribundas, I love all kinds of roses. I agree with Seil, you don't know unless you try them. Really enjoyed your humorous take on this, Diane.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2013 at 7:28AM
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diane_nj 6b/7a

JFK and Angel Face. Lady Emma Hamilton vexes me, I love her so, she hates me. :-)

    Bookmark   December 24, 2013 at 8:45AM
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Tessiess's post is interesting to me because I live in a Mediterranean climate too (hot dry summers, good annual rainfall, good winter chill) and you'd think the same roses would do well for us, but they don't. In my garden, unpampered plants of the following varieties have done fine: 'Napoleon', 'Archduke Charles', 'Francis Dubreuil'/'Barcelona', 'Camellia Rose'. On the other hand California Melissa lists Rugosas as doing well for her, and I can't grow them at all. Tessiess's garden sounds wonderful to me; she sounds like she really knows what she's doing. But I wanted to say that her "not so nice" roses shouldn't be automatically written off for gardens in a Mediterranean climate.
Melissa in Italy

    Bookmark   December 26, 2013 at 3:52AM
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Everblooming Cl Cécile Brünner...3 years in a prime sunny spot and I think I could have had more blooms on my ivy with such love and affection. I was so happy to add it to my compost a few weeks ago.

    Bookmark   December 29, 2013 at 11:14AM
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kentucky_rose zone 6

Blue Girl - loved the bloom, it had form, fragrance, and lasted ... Problems were BS, very stingy, long between cycles, and thrips really loved it ... I sp'd 2 this fall ... I will miss them ....but wasn't worth the work or garden space

    Bookmark   December 29, 2013 at 1:03PM
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Wow! Blue Girl is one of my best performers! It amazes me how different the experiences are.

    Bookmark   December 30, 2013 at 1:13AM
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Wow it must be the different areas we all grow roses in. Some of my best roses are on the evil list. Tournament of Roses and Just Joey, which would not stop blooming. One of my favorites is not on the not so great list, Gertrude Jeckell. Her color and scent are wonderful; but too many thorns to deal with any more. I am not as patient as I become older!

    Bookmark   December 30, 2013 at 1:31AM
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