Need Large Thorny Rose

lindawisconsin(4)December 2, 2007

Hi!

The neighbor who lives near the entrance to my property has been there for a number of years. His son is now grown and seems to be sliding into alcoholism. There are many parties which involve a large bonfire, and "guests" have begun parking across my property line. Beer cans are tossed wherever they land, and an assortment of trash greets me every time I go out. I think eventually the parents will wise up and kick the

the nonworking son out of the nest.

In the meantime, I'd like to restrict the party to THEIR property.

I need a very large, very hardy, very thorny, NASTY but beautiful rose bush. I do have several OGR's planted up there, but I need a monster that will stop a truck!

This needs to be hardy in zone 5. The area receives some good sun, also some shade. The other roses bloom, but somewhat meagerly. I'd sacrifice lots of blooms in this case for very long thorns! Depending on size, I would need 2-5 bushes.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for your input,

Linda

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zeffyrose_pa6b7(6b7)

I have an Albertine Rambler with really nasty thorns--

It is a once-bloomer with lovely fragrance and stays green all summer---

How about New Dawn------thorny and pretty----very dependable----

Here is Albertine covering my house---LOL

Florence

--

    Bookmark   December 2, 2007 at 11:05AM
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stephanotis_1(8b AZ)

Seafoam and Mermaid are the nastiest thorned roses I know of, both of which bloom profusely. Good luck!

    Bookmark   December 2, 2007 at 11:06AM
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zeffyrose_pa6b7(6b7)

I forgot to add Dr Van Fleet-----father of New Dawn---very pretty---huge and very thorny --just ask my DH who has many wounds from it---LOL --a once bloomer

Florence

    Bookmark   December 2, 2007 at 11:09AM
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lindawisconsin(4)

Yes, those sound good, and Zeffyrose, your rose is amazing! Tell your husband I will learn from his pain! LOL
Here in Wisconsin, hardiness is an issue so Mermaid would be marginal. Did you read Frances Mayes book Bella Tuscany and her adventures with Mermaid?
I'll look up Dr. Van Fleet and Seafoam. I think New Dawn would be a candidate.
If it is a kind of climber rather than an upright, that would be good. This is one case where rambling and spreading would be an asset!

    Bookmark   December 2, 2007 at 11:26AM
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jardineratx

I know seafoam is thorny, but I had no idea it will get huge. Maybe I better re-think where I am planting my seafoam baby.

    Bookmark   December 2, 2007 at 12:13PM
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bellarosa(z5/IL)

How about Rugosa roses? They are hardy, bloom all summer and have some of the nastiest thorns ever! I used to have 'Sarah Van Fleet', which is a pretty pink rose, but I gave to my Mom for her new garden. If you're looking for a climber - I don't think you are, but if you were - I would consider, 'William Baffin'. He's beautiful, hardy and full of HUGE thorns. I know 'cause I have two of these roses and every Spring when I give him his annual haircut, I end up with cut marks all over.

    Bookmark   December 2, 2007 at 12:33PM
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lindawisconsin(4)

Hi Bellarosa! I do have some Rugosas up there, but they ain't large enough! I'd need about 10 of them. Baffin would be good though - I've seen pictures of it dwarfing houses!
One Baffin might do the job!
Maybe two!

    Bookmark   December 2, 2007 at 1:28PM
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karl_bapst_rosenut(5a, NW Indiana)

Hansa is a rugosa that gets quite large as does Magnifica. In my zone 5 area it gets to 5 feet tall and wide. Hansa has a similar growth habit. What I like about the rugosas is the thornes seem to throw themselves at anyone passing by too close. The tiny needles come off easily and irritate the heck out of anyone coming in contact with them. They are difficult to remove also.

    Bookmark   December 2, 2007 at 1:43PM
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labrea_gw

I second Sarah Van Fleet nice blooms big thorny rose a one bloomer and traditional fence rose Harrisons Yellow once bloomer

    Bookmark   December 2, 2007 at 4:28PM
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len511(6)

if it's hardy for you the rugosa hybrid conrad ferdinand meyer grows like a weed and i challenge anything to have bigger thorns. smells nice too.

    Bookmark   December 2, 2007 at 7:27PM
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berndoodle

Sea Foam grows very large within a few years in a mild climate. I'd say it's at least 8 feet wide. It's still only 3, 3.5 feet tall.

    Bookmark   December 2, 2007 at 10:13PM
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jardineratx

Thanks so much for the info on seafoam, berndoodle. I have been spared a transplant of a very thorny rose later!
molly

    Bookmark   December 3, 2007 at 8:01AM
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the_bustopher z6 MO

Night Light has lots of wicked thorns. It is a yellow and red climber. It gets quite large and should fill the bill.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2007 at 11:09AM
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sc_gardener(zone 5)

Barberry bushes may also work for you - they are thorny.

But the best is a rambler. all those octopuss canes... the one I know is hardy here is dorothy perkins.

Also the rugosas, hansa being the largest. Also the grootendoorst series has bigger thorns.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2007 at 11:25AM
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julie22

How about the species roses? I know they are only once bloomers, but also give great hips. I'm thinking of Rosa Eglanteria. This one just loves to reach out and touch someone, anyone, and eats them alive! I prune this baby with chain maze armor on. It also has a tendency to "Visit the neighbors"; not as quickly as Basye's Purple, but with a more steady and forceful push. Rosa Eglanteria isn't a rambler but mine is over 10 ft. tall now and still getting larger.

This is just a thought.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2007 at 12:54PM
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lindawisconsin(4)

Wow! Lots of possiblities! This is keeping me busy researching hardiness! I looked on helpmefind, and I like the looks of Night Light! They had a great picture of the thorns - the branch is just coated. However, it looks like it is not readily available in the U.S. Can you tell me where you purchased yours?
I do have a Hansa up there, but it needs some growth yet to have the effect I'd like. I just transplanted it this fall. I had it in a location that got more shade each year, and as a result, it never did get very tall. I'll see how it works out.
I like the look of Bayse's Purple.
Maybe that with some climbers spraying around at the base!
I might have to grow them for a year in the richly amended, full sun all day bed to get a decent size, and them transplant.
Barberry buses are a great idea! They could probably be fine with less sun than roses.
They should be less expensive than roses, right?
Lots of fun to dream about installing more roses in the Spring!

    Bookmark   December 3, 2007 at 5:01PM
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the_bustopher z6 MO

I got my Night Light from Heirloom Roses in St. Paul, Oregon. They do carry it, but they may be out of stock as of the moment. I would contact them.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2007 at 11:44PM
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lindawisconsin(4)

Thanks for the reply - I'll check with them!

    Bookmark   December 4, 2007 at 12:34AM
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athenainwi

John Cabot gets quite large up here. I have mine trellised and is two years old. I think the longest canes are 8 feet - they're over the top of the trellis. The thorns are nasty and it has poked me several times as I've arranged the canes. I got mine at Jungs.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2007 at 2:33PM
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josephv

I've tried growing Hansa in 7B, but it is very prone to disease here.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2008 at 6:26PM
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chuck_billie(7/8 PNW)

Living Easy is what you need.
All I have to do is walk by it and I'm bleeding.
Blooms all the time and looks good too.
Chuck

    Bookmark   March 6, 2008 at 9:42PM
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catsrose(VA 6)

Pyracantha is another armed plant. It is sometimes calle "Fire Thorn" because a lot of people experience the thorns as burning, as well as stabbing and lacerating. I'd also pick up all the trash and beer bottles and spread them in your neighbor's driveway, preferably under his tires. If the parents haven't prevented this kind of behavior yet, why do you think they will do so tomorrow?

    Bookmark   March 6, 2008 at 10:36PM
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lindawisconsin(4)

Thanks for the recommendation catsrose.
I had a talk with the son's mother, and believe me, they are on their way to pushing him out on his own.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2008 at 11:07PM
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suzy_verrier(Coastal ME Z5)

For a zone 4 there is nothing larger, downright thornier, and formidable than Polareis (Ritausma.) It is also an especially handsome rugosa.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2008 at 8:56AM
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katefisher(Z7_NorthernCA)

Polareis sounds like just the ticket for the front corner of my yard where little feet frequently trespass. Looks like they are carrying it at Pickering who I have not ordered from before. Anyone else know a good source?

Thank you.

Kate

    Bookmark   March 7, 2008 at 11:24AM
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susanswoods(Z6 VA)

Westerland is a big, flesh-eating one. I got tangled up in it and wasn't sure I was going to get free. Even with a canvas jacket I looked like I had been wrestling a grizzly bear.

Here is a link that might be useful: Photo of Westerland

    Bookmark   March 7, 2008 at 4:47PM
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Terry Crawford

I planted Sir Thomas Lipton rugosas to divide my yard from unsociable neighbors. They have very nasty thorns; make a very tall 6-9' tall hedge; and are very winter hardy. They take minimal care; no spraying.

I planted 6 of these babies and within 3 years they formed a very dense, formidable barrier. I guarantee no one could penetrate this hedge without metal armour. STL blooms heavily in the spring with sporadic bloom later in the fall.
-t

    Bookmark   March 7, 2008 at 6:27PM
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cactusjoe1

You need this intimidating looking climber, Night Light.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2008 at 6:27PM
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jean_ar(z8 Ar)

4th of July has some horrible dangerous thorns and it gets huge too,but don't know if it will do ok in your zone.,

Jean

    Bookmark   March 8, 2008 at 12:02AM
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julie22

I saw that Rosa Eglanteria was suggested. There's a good point here. Though beautiful when in flower, it's the leaves that carry the fragrance with this rose. It is a large species that loves to reach out and touch someone even if you're 10 feet away. Here it takes no care at all except for some pruning (with a extra long hedge trimmer) to keep it shaped some, but not to much. Since it dislikes fertilizers and sprays (especially sprays), the beautiful orange hips are great for harvesting. It does like to meander, but not too aggressively, but over time will become wider than tall. Tall? Mine's about 8' right now. The birds love it. It provides so much protection for them because of it's dangerous pickers and they love the hips that are just to hard to harvest.

My rosa eglanteria is one of the highlights of my garden and a great conversation piece.

Rosa Eglanteria in hip by mid summer.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2008 at 6:42AM
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dr_andre_phufufnik(Blsk, Voynovia)

Linda, I'll offer another suggestion: wait it out, if you can. I, too, wanted big barrier roses to stop a neighbor problem. Over ten years ago I planted Cabot, Baffin, A. Mackenzie and R. eglanteria. They worked!. But they also got bigger and bigger. And I came to realize these are some pretty unremarkable roses (well, except for eglanteria and its devine scent). They are really once-blooming roses, scent-free and frumps out of bloom.

Well, the teen problem solved itself after two years and I was faced with tending these monsters thereafter. These are very high-maintenance, thorny, suckering roses for northern gardeners. Removing old canes each year is a bloody, time-consuming effort. I decided to remove them, a few each year.

Digging the plants out after ten years in the ground was an ordeal. Each one took 1/2 day! The canes were as big around as my wrist at the base. (I am a weight lifter and run five times a week -- I am in pretty good shape). And after I removed Baffin four years ago I still have dozens of unwanted suckers.

Eglanteria remains a threat to the new family who moved in. Lovely little children now play there. Eglanteria I keep small by chain sawing it to the ground after it blooms. It still manages to hit five feet by summer's end.

I have just a few left to go. Out comes Mackenzie this year. I may remove the eglanteria, too.

I realized the effort to maintain/remove these roses far outlasted the neighbor problem. I wish I hadn't planted them

    Bookmark   March 9, 2008 at 11:55AM
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zeffyrose_pa6b7(6b7)

dr andre makes a good point-------Some of these ramblers can be monsters and difficult to maintain ---

Florence

    Bookmark   March 9, 2008 at 1:59PM
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Maryl zone 7a

My only thought was when you said the neighbors son and friends throw their trash around. Imagine having to clean out all that debris if it goes over to your side of the fence. I say this having grown Barberries along a side street. Cigarette packs, chip bags, cola cups etc. all had to be dug out from amongst those thorny shrubs. Every leaf, stray newpaper or advertising flyer seemed to be attracted to the hedge as if they had magnets attached. The shrubs are gone now and the wind can carry that mess to places other then my yard. Just a thought for when the kid is gone but the thorny roses remain.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2008 at 3:03PM
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lindawisconsin(4)

Thanks very much for the thought, Mary!
That is a side of it I had not considered!
I certainly don't want to be crawling under something thorny to pull out windblown trash. And certainly barberry will hold on to most anything and not let go!
We're coming on to planting time soon and I'm trying to narrow this down. There have been so many good suggestions! Our zone does eliminate some choices.
Enabling - the reason I love the Rose Forum!

    Bookmark   March 9, 2008 at 11:20PM
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Patricia43(z8 AL)

I am not in your zone but is pyracantha hardy in your zone? If so, nothing will do better and make an evergreen screen, produce berries and the worst thorns and if they ever step on a thorn, they will think they are on fire.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2008 at 11:34PM
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brhgm(z8b LA)

I recommend Cherokee rose. It has nasty thorns and is really difficult to remove once planted. It's probably not suitable for your zone. Neither is Mutabilis or New Dawn. There should be plenty of Canadian Explorer roses to suit your needs.

    Bookmark   March 10, 2008 at 2:38PM
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jont1(Midwest 5b/6a)

For some really thorny hybrid teas, let me suggest Pristine, Marilyn Monroe, and Dublin. These will really get you if you don't pay attention while working on or around these three.
John

    Bookmark   March 11, 2008 at 2:23AM
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rabocsekire(9a)

How about Othello? its an austin english rose with 6" fragrent pink flowers with purple undertones and hardy to zone 5 or 4(with protection). In my zone it gets over 8 feet tall in just one season and if youy dont restrain the canes they will begin flailing violently with thorns that could rip off skin! i dont have it but my friend does and i have never approached it unless i felt like having my face sliced off or it was restrained to the fence and there was no wind. Good luck!

    Bookmark   June 4, 2008 at 12:57PM
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