Imidacloprid - New York Times

henry_kuskaDecember 18, 2013

"Now European Union regulators say the same class of pesticides âÂÂmay affect the developing human nervous systemâ of children. They focused on two specific versions of the pesticide, acetamiprid and imidacloprid, saying they were safe to use only in smaller amounts than currently allowed. Imidacloprid was one of the pesticides placed under a two-year ban this year."

See:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/18/business/international/europe-warns-of-human-risk-from-insecticides.html?ref=world&_r=0

Here is a link that might be useful: link for above

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Campanula UK Z8

Implicated in bee deaths for some time now but, as usual, Bayer is contesting this ban furiously (the bottom line, at ANY cost). Swines.
Having grown my own vegetables without any interventions other than responsible soil husbandry and careful selection of seeds (and a full 4 year rotation), I absolutely know that yields are as high (per acre) while quality is terrific (if not viable on the supermarket shelf for weeks at a time) as the most intense system of monocropping with high fertiliser and pesticide imput.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 2:57PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

You do know that Imidicloprid is the active ingredient in heartworm preventives?

Jeri

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 7:37PM
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thedogsLL(6B)

Not only heartworm. Flea/tick products Advantage, Advantage II, Advantix and Advantix II are all imidicloprid. Same with the Seresto collars.People just don't realize what they are buying from their vets to "protect" pets.
Imidicloprid paralyzes the insects nervous system. That's why veterinarians like it. Instant results - no insects moving, the pet owner is impressed with the vet's skill. Pet owner now goes to vet for all "pest" control. No one stops to think what other effects it may have, like the bees. Or people in the long run.
I'm just glad that someone is paying attention, whether it's the NYT or Europe.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 8:25PM
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jaxondel

Jeri, What do you use for flea control on your Dals?

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 9:26PM
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catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14

There is a difference between contained usage and wholesale introduction to the environment (i.e. single animal versus spraying of entire fields). A similar distinction is frequently missed on the question of DDT: spraying within the limits of a home to kill malarial mosquitoes indoors (the practice now) is an entirely different affair from massive spraying of agricultural fields or neighborhoods (and people!), as was done in the past.

I sincerely doubt my Advantaged cats are going to be killing honeybees, but I have little doubt that spraying these substances on large swathes of crops, and dispersing large amounts of them generally into the environment, is not a great idea. How does one arthropod avoid death while another is decimated? As Campanula says, crops can be grown well without these "miracle" pesticides (though admittedly, probably not at the cheapest possible cost). My experience has been that pesticides, even allegedly "safe" insecticidal soaps, create more problems than they solve. (I favor mechanical methods, if intervention is needed at all.)

Another question, of course, would be concerning long-term effects of imidacloprid on Advantaged cats...and me, since I always seem to end up with some on myself while trying to apply it to cats...

This post was edited by catspa on Wed, Dec 18, 13 at 23:06

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 10:54PM
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roseseek

It also has to do with the dosage. You can't buy Lindane to kill cane borers any longer due to the extreme toxicity (DANGER label, first line, "Causes blindness"), but you CAN buy it in a shampoo to wash your childrens' hair to rid them of lice. Wonderful, huh? Kim

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 11:17PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Jax. At this minute, nothing. Winter gives us a brief break. But one of our three has an extreme sensitivity to fleas. So most-recently, Comfortis.

Jeri

    Bookmark   December 18, 2013 at 11:54PM
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arkroselady(7b)

Comfortis is great stuff for fleas. It's also great for flower thrips under the name of Conserve. The active ingredient is spinosad.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 8:55AM
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kittymoonbeam

I was researching this for a neighbor for borers on peach trees. A nurseryman friend who has wide connections to the farming industry in CA says that almost all fruit farmers are using it and 98% of tomato growers. The veggie growers are also using it heavily here. If you aren't eating organic, you are most likely consuming this stuff. I wish they would label what they use, but even so, if a farmer sell his peaches to a pie baker, the baker does not have to tell you what's in the peaches in his pie. He only has to say peaches. Likewise for the sauce on your frozen pizza made with treated tomatoes.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 11:51AM
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thedogsLL(6B)

Catspa, I hear what you're saying and agree. The problem I have with the Bayer products is that where I work, a B2B pet industry supply distributor, Bayer sends in a sales rep once or twice a year to "educate" us re: their pet products.The next day they are in the call center, with a sales blitz, giving prizes to the sales staff for every sale. I've been at this job for 20 years, and this has been going on for the last 4. We have to watch videos of it being sprayed on crops, to "prove" how safe it is. This jibes totally with your point, and also explains my total aversion to any insecticide, but especially those made by Bayer, simply due to the untruths being propagated. (I've learned the hard way not to "spout off" on forums, which is why I didn't get into all this detail when I first posted.)
LynnT

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 5:52PM
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catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14

Too true, LynnT -- big ag/big pharma seem to have moral compasses broken beyond repair. Selling products for small-scale, well-considered purposes is not profit enough; "shareholder value" isn't realized until the entire world is drenched in tons of whatever it is, with or without truly understanding consequences. Thus, limited usage with true benefit gets tarred by the harms caused by indiscriminate wide-scale use pushed beyond the limits of what's actually known.

Even "natural" products have their hazards, though. The spinosad mentioned in other posts is also lethal to honeybees and, if used for thrips, for example, needs to be applied at times when honeybees are not around for at least three hours afterwards (see the label; night-time likely best).

    Bookmark   December 19, 2013 at 9:11PM
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thedogsLL(6B)

For a long time, some of the flea/tick manufacturers really pushed the Insect Growth Regulators (IGR) like methoprene, which is the only name that comes to mind right now. It "breaks the flea life cycle." Meaning it stops development of the egg and larva in insects that have 4 stages to the life cycle - egg, larva, pupa, adult. Guess what else has 4 stages? Butterflies! I've seen this stuff in outdoor products for lawns, even. So you never know where you're going to find harm, if one doesn't know what they are using, and how to apply safely.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2013 at 6:40AM
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