Plantng Distance for DA

marcindy(z5b, Indianapolis, IN)December 6, 2012

I keep confusing myself on this point, probably overthinking this... let's say you want to plant three DA roses in a group and the catalog says they grow 4' by 4'. How far apart would you plant the actual plants? Would you space them 2' apart, or would you move them a little closer, say 18", and create that one large plant look?

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seil zone 6b MI

DA's catalog suggests planting three plants at 18" apart for a fuller look.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 4:01PM
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Krista_5NY

Some of the Austins will have different sizes in one's own garden, than what his website says.... different zones etc.

Many of my Austins are planted 2 feet apart, or more. I don't like them to look too crowded together, but one may plant closer together if one likes for the compact varieties....

Before I plant a new Austin I do research on it to try to determine what size it will be in my garden. Some of his cultivars can get quite large, and if planted too close together this could be a problem.

The growth habits of the Austin varieties can vary quite a bit, which will influence where I will place a rose, and how close it can be to its neighbor.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 5:09PM
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caldonbeck(UK (8))

@Krista_4 I'm pretty sure @marcindy was referring to 3 plants of the same variety. For this you would do an equilateral triangle 18" apart. The idea is that they form one continuous plant and not three individuals. You then prune the outside edges and leave the inside of the 'triangle' alone, only shaping at the top.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 10:27PM
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mad_gallica(zone 5 - eastern New York)

First start by trying to get *local* information about how big the particular rose is going to get. Since the catalog writers may not even know where Indy is, let alone how big anything is going to get there, that is non-information.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2012 at 10:39PM
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caldonbeck(UK (8))

Doesn't matter how big the individual variety is going to get, you want it to form one single bush so the distance is always 18". I agree, if planting different varieties and you want clearly defined edges, then size of the variety matters.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2012 at 8:56AM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

No. Mad Gallica is correct.

In the U.S., LOCAL size on Austin roses matters a great deal.

Some roses that are "billed" as being 4-footers will go close to 20 feet, in some areas. You need to know what they will do where YOU are going to grow them, in order to know how far apart to plant them.

I know this to my sorrow, as I am the Reigning Queen of Roses Planted Too Closely Together.

Jeri

    Bookmark   December 7, 2012 at 12:09PM
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marcindy(z5b, Indianapolis, IN)

Sorry, I meant planting groups of the same variety. I know in my zone 5b garden roses tend to stay a little smaller than advertised. Since I plan to plant groupings of three to five roses of the same variety I think I will plant them 18" apart and space the neighboring groups of different varieties a little further apart. Like I said, I probably overthink this totally...lol

    Bookmark   December 7, 2012 at 3:37PM
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caldonbeck(UK (8))

It looks great @marcindy you get more of a display, like at a garden that you would visit. I do stand by my point, it won't make any odds if they do get to 20' if they are the same variety together you grow them as one plant. They get so tight in the middle it is impossible to tell it isn't one slightly wider bush.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 12:42AM
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harmonyp

I fear I am following in Jeri's footsteps of planting them too closely. Time will tell. Jeri - have you tried to move any of yours, or just let them stay too close?

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 12:40PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

I moved one on Thursday-the ground is so wet and it was over a flush-something I was waiting for before moving it. One of the three Jubilee Celebrations was being swallowed by Carding Mill. I "had" them neatly arranged in kind of a D shape. Now the design is "curved" for the back row too. I like Jubilee too much to loose the blooms behind and under Carding Mill and Carding now has "lots" of room to spread.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 1:31PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

No. The roses we've made that mistake with have generally solved the problem themselves -- by crowding out their neighbors. Since it's mostly Tea Roses, they seem to handle it, but in 1-2 cases, we've reached the point where one of a group does need to be moved, or eliminated. Probably eliminated, in the interest of reducing water usage.

Mme. Berkeley, big as a barn, HAS eaten her nearest neighbor, and is devouring the one on the other side, but she is also disease-free, ever-blooming, and attractive, so I have no quarrel with her.

I've always thought -- perhaps un-worthily -- that where Austin has recommended planting 3 of something, it may be that selling 3 roses is better business than selling 1 rose.

I've never seen the need to do it -- except with Prospero, which can make a nice low hedge, if planted closely. And even Prospero is really just fine on its own.

Jeri

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 2:45PM
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AquaEyes 7a New Jersey

I think an additional consideration is whether you're growing grafted or own-root. The grafted roses will likely put out more top-growth sooner, being as they are a couple of years ahead of the own-root bands. But the grafted roses won't spread below the ground to give new shoots (unless the rootstock suckers, in which case you'll be pulling them out, anyway). So to give a dense look, you plant in groups, allowing for the top-growth to grow together, looking like one bush with three legs in the ground.

If you go own-root, you have the bonus of the plant sending new shoots up from the ground further out, widening the spread of the plant lower down. If the variety you choose has a habit of spreading by suckering when it's own-root, then planting several in a group wouldn't be necessary -- unless you're not willing to wait for it to do it by itself.

:-)

~Christopher

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 3:07PM
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Kippy(SoCal zone 10. Sunset Zone 24)

I think Jeri has a good point on the groupings of 3 plantings. If you can sell 3 instead of just 1, what a deal.

My 3 were in a row, in honor of my 3 sons and Jubilee in honor of my 50th birthday. So I could not let one bush be overwhelmed by Carding Mill. But that little bed is planted fairly tight. I have limited space for "landscape" only planting that bed has most of the Austins (water thirsty roses over a leech field seems like a good way to deal with both issues)

    Bookmark   December 8, 2012 at 4:44PM
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marcindy(z5b, Indianapolis, IN)

I like the suggestion of own root versus grafted and what effect that might have on the look of the "final" grouping. Thank you for that thought, it does definitely influence my decision to go own root over grafted.

I always thought that suggestion to plant three in a triangle had ulterior motives. However, in my case since this will be in a formal rose garden I need to have groups of at least three plants of the same variety (better would be five or more) to not make it look like a collection of single plants. I am guilty of being a notorious onesies planter, or as someone in the Perennial Forum called it drifts of one...

Thanks so much for your thoughts and suggestions and discussion of differing points. It all helps to learn and visualize the final outcome.

Thank you!

    Bookmark   December 9, 2012 at 8:28PM
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amandahugg(SS19 CA)

When you shove plants together, you're inviting fungal diseases for a feast. Fungi love groupings with poor air circulation. It makes a nice warm humid bed for them to flourish in.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2012 at 1:00AM
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john_ca(CA US9/SSZ14)

I purchased a one gallon pot of Golden Celebration from Chamblees around 2.5 years ago. The pot contained 3 rooted cuttings, which I separated and put them each in their own 1 gallon pot for a few months before planting them in the garden. Based on my prior experience with this rose, I planted them in a pattern defining an equilateral triangle at a 6 foot spacing. In this short time, these roses have fused together into a large mound. I have been pruning them back each winter, and they quickly fill in the area within the triangle with fresh, vigorous growth. I can not imagine planting this variety at a closer spacing in my area. I therefore agree with what others have stated above: you need to know how large a variety will grow in your area to decide how far apart you should plant your roses.

John

    Bookmark   December 10, 2012 at 4:41PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Right on target, John.

Jeri

    Bookmark   December 10, 2012 at 6:19PM
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caldonbeck(UK (8))

Golden celebreation grows to about 4/5' wide here too, you still plant them 18" apart.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2012 at 11:24PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

I really think that's over-kill for a rose of that size and vigor. Our GCs are in fact planted about 3 ft. apart, and they form a dense hedge.

GC is prone to blackspot in many areas. Even here, we see touches of it, from time-to-time.

I really believe that, planting it as tightly as 18 inches would be an invitation to disease problems in most areas.

Most of all, there is no NEED to plant GC that closely -- so why do it?

Jeri

    Bookmark   December 11, 2012 at 12:16PM
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