'California Dreamin'

sandandsun(9a FL)December 26, 2012

Or, what I didn't get for Christmas:

Picotees are trumps for me when the colors are well matched. With my no spray limitations I actually do not have even one picotee in the garden.
I notice that HMF does not use this term very often, but instead usually describes the main color and the "edges."
I am currently heartbreakingly love-struck by 'California Dreamin.' Even though it is a recent European introduction, I can find no reports of disease resistance. I love its description as bushy and compact - perfect for my garden use.
Does anyone have no spray experience with this rose?
If not, does anyone have an edged, or picotee, no spray success story?
Thank you in advance.

Here is a link that might be useful: 'California Dreamin' on HMF

This post was edited by sandandsun on Wed, Dec 26, 12 at 18:49

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minflick(9b/7, Boulder Creek, CA)

I didn't think picotee was that particular color pattern? I thought it's supposed to be a narrower border that is more sharply defined, whereas on California Dreamin' (pretty, I see why you like it) the pink looks to me to be more of a 'sun blush' color change, where it may vary on each petal depending on how the sunlight hits it. Picotee is not sun dependent, and is more of an outline to each and every petal.

AT least, that's how I understood picotee to be. I, too, really like that color pattern a whole lot.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2012 at 7:22PM
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CD is wonderful in my zone 5 garden. It is VERY disease resistant and sits right next to an Abe Darby who is a black spot magnet. It is fragrant and prolific and clean. A good ros� for a few years now...got it from Regan.. I do not spray. Actually I just ordered another one. Btw, are there any true picotee roses?

    Bookmark   December 26, 2012 at 8:45PM
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The photos on hmf show more yellow than is present in my specimen.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2012 at 8:47PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)


Thank you.
About the yellow, I have assumed that the yellow probably only shows in the coolest weather. I like the cream and mauve combo. The yellow just says good things to me about its breeding. And given Florida, I'm rarely likely to see the yellow either although it is possible.
About the term picotee: it isn't related to roses at all, it is a term for a flower that has an edging of a different color. The "bleeding" from the edges shown in some photos does not diminish this overall effect for me. And so, yes, I think there are quite a few picotee roses - nicole, hannah gordon, cherry parfait, for examples, to name ones discussed on these forums.
I wish the term would be applied because it would greatly simplify searching for them. Vintage Gardens also uses or at least did use the term.
How long have you been no spray? Would you report on any other similar successes, please?

    Bookmark   December 27, 2012 at 10:59PM
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I do love the picotee begonias. In my no spray zone, I have luck with Nicole, Black Cherry, Memorial Day, Double Delight, Sceptere'd Isle, Anastasia, Daybreaker, April in Paris, Pope John Paul 2, Golden Celebration, Osiria, Summer Memories, Dark Knight, Don Juan, Joseph's Coat, and many more. I do use the Bayer Drench and some sulphur or potassium sprays. Most stay clean until the damp cool days of fall. I do not spray because of my wheaten terriers. Take a look at Elegant Lady and Nicole and Cherry Parfait...or Starwberry Parfait, aka Imperatrice Farrah.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2012 at 11:30PM
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Oh, and I have never sprayed in my back yard, ever. Due to the dogs and my children. Beds have existed for 30 years. Front beds get sprayed sporadically ...when I am in the mood to put on all the gear, etc. let me know how you like Imperatrice Farrah. She is a beauty. A huge ros�.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2012 at 11:41PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

What does the Bayer Drench treat? Is it systemic? Is that the name on its label? Thanks.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2012 at 11:57PM
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The 3 in one treats many diseases. It is also a fertilizer...one of the zillion I use. Lol. Use the search feature at the bottom of the page. There are many posts from knowledgeable biochemists , master gardeners, etc on the pros and cons of this product. Personally, I love it and it keeps my roses very clean and healthy.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 12:35AM
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California Dreamin' (grafted on Dr. Huey) is very disease resistant here in coastal Socal. In less than ideal sun (about 5 hours), blooms are very large but not especially frequent. Gets regularly drenched by the lawn sprinklers which does not cause ANY disease but sometimes does cause the flowers to shatter more quickly. Flowers last a week in the vase and fragrance is very good. It is just one year old and we may move it to a sunnier location to improve the bloom production but not until it matures a bit more.


    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 12:57PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)


Thank you again. I try to keep learning. I really appreciate your help.
What I've learned today is that if you are a "no spray" gardener, then I have to find a more correct term for my rose gardening method because I thought I was no spray.
But clearly that descriptor is inaccurate for my use because it does not have the same meaning for both of us.

OMG, this is a dilemma. So, I'm not a no spray gardener. Ah, how about "no treat?" I'll try that. I think I'm a no treat gardener. No, that's inaccurate too; I use insecticidal soap. "Organic?" I can't say that either because I do use commercial fertilizer on my annuals to get the most out of their brief existence.

This REALLY IS a dilemma.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 1:01PM
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To me, no spray means NO chemicals that are toxic sprayed into the air. Insecticidal soaps, neem oil, etc. do not fall into that group. They only help marginally. The Bayer drench is not disseminated into the air for inhalation, so I still consider myself NO Spray. This is not the same as organic.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 1:40PM
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Karolina11(6b Central PA)

Wow, I was way off. I have only been here since the spring but I understood no spray to mean no chemicals containing insecticides or fungicides. I consider myself low spray because I use the bayer fungicide in a watering can two to three times a growing season. Thank you Susan and sandandsun for educating me.

As for California Dreamin, I have no experience with it but do have it for spring order as all of the photos I have seen are beautiful.

This post was edited by Karolina11 on Fri, Dec 28, 12 at 14:19

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 2:18PM
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Lol...I could be so wrong, too. I guess I am not speaking literally , in that no spray means NO SPRAY of big gun toxins. There have been MANY discussions on ground water contamination, etc. with the drenches. We are off topic .....again.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 2:33PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)


Your understanding has always been my understanding - no use of chemical fungicides or chemical insecticides in any form. But I can easily see how someone who literally doesn't spray could call herself no spray. Words and language are important.

I cannot even say I'm NCI - No Chemical Insecticides, because I use a specialty insecticide on the fire ants without which I could not garden. They REALLY hurt. Also, the fire ants would kill many of my plants. I don't know specifically how they kill plants, but I have observed it.

So maybe I'm just NCF - No Chemical Fungicides.

Ground water contamination is a serious issue. It is especially so here in Florida where "the ground" is mostly sand and we don't have traditional forests. These factors are known to act as filtration units in areas that have them. Although they have little or no effect on chemicals which do not biodegrade or take too long to do so.

A Florida community discovered that their wells were contaminated - link below. And the contaminant was insecticide. The first phrase of the article is probably the most significant: "Decades after it was banned..."
Probably the most significant IMHO because it points out how this stuff can come back to bite us or our children or grandchildren.

They even sought the help of the real Erin Brockovich -

Erin Brockovich visits with DeLand residents:


Here is a link that might be useful: Homeowners' wells tainted by banned insecticide

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 4:40PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

Does anyone grow 'California Dreamin' with No Chemical Fungicides (NCF)?

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 4:45PM
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Like that new NCF distinction. Makes it clearer. How on earth do you keep roses going in the humidity of Florida? I cannot even keep my eyebrows under control.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2012 at 5:53PM
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sandandsun(9a FL)

Well, we're way off topic anyway sort of, so about the humidity:
It REALLY bothers ME.
I'm not so certain that it is so much of an issue for the roses. In spring, the chilly humidity seems to encourage mildew on susceptible plants like a perennial bedding salvia which sometimes takes on a "creamy variegation" - that's what I tell the uninformed visitor anyway, lol. In the summer when it is both humid and hot, they don't seem to notice. In fact, I'd swear that some of my roses are in their "happy place," or maybe comatose, but their leaves are usually fine then.
Whenever I've been in a greenhouse/glasshouse, the humidity levels always feel above average or definitely greater than the outdoor level - and plants in general seem to flourish in greenhouses, don't they?
We in Florida also get our share, or more, of rain at night. The roses don't seem to complain about that a bit. As is oft repeated here: roses like water.
If one reads up on the tomato forum, there is/was/has been presented there that tomatoes have a biological high temperature "cut-off" sensor which shuts down their blooms and therefore their tomato production. I think some roses have this too, but I gots NO PROOF or I'd reference the documentation.
In conclusion, whereas for ME the adage, "it ain't the heat, it's the humidity" is true; for the roses I suspect that it ain't the humidity, it's the heat. Again: a conclusion based on observation here only.
And to the question: "How...do you keep roses going in the humidity of Florida?" My answer is the stuff I wrote already plus I only add VDR (very disease resistant) roses to the garden.

    Bookmark   December 29, 2012 at 9:04PM
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i just bought 4 california dreamin , wondeful large large blooms in our climate here. fragrance is mild though

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 3:18PM
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The rose is beautiful, but how come a European company gets to use a way cool name like 'California Dreamin'. American cultural references ought to be reserved for the use of American breeders. My 2 cents worth.

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 12:00AM
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Add a "g" to the end of the name and it was used 26 years ago for a lovely, red, Bruce Rennie miniature I had the pleasure of growing that long ago. Long before the Europeans glommed on to it, a Canadian had already had the idea. Ironic no American had the foresight to use it. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: California Dreaming

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 2:56AM
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roseseek, Canadian is OK, especially since one of the band was from Canada.

    Bookmark   December 16, 2013 at 5:42PM
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Beautiful rose....I miss her.....sob!

    Bookmark   December 16, 2013 at 10:47PM
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Two months back i got four cd. Plants. Grafted on a local breed rootstock(indigenous to pakistan)
In just two months that it has been with me it jas surprised me with the numerous flower buds and its vigour.
I bought 85 roses this december. This one attracts a lot of my attention and time. Lets see how it does here in the coming harsh summers.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 9:25AM
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