Acer skutchii aka Mexican Sugar Maple

lou_midlothian_tx(z8 DFW, Tx)October 22, 2010

Late growth for some reason but I thought it looks nice.

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gardener365(5b Illinois USA)

Looks like you found another tree that will grow for you. I see it grows on alkaline soils and stays kind of small (15').

I never heard of it. Where in the heck did you purchase that?
Seems like it might be a difficult one to find.

Dax

    Bookmark   October 23, 2010 at 7:10AM
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ltruett(Zone, 9 Houston)

Lou and I collected the seed from SFA University in east Texas. He only had one germinate. The original tree is actually a lot bigger than 15 feet, reportedly over 40 feet in 2009.

http://ag.sfasu.edu/UserFiles/File/PLANTS/Acer%20skutchii.pdf

Here is a link that might be useful: Mexican Sugar Maple

    Bookmark   October 23, 2010 at 9:24AM
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lou_midlothian_tx(z8 DFW, Tx)

Yes, they reportedly do well in central Texas where the soil is alkaline and rocky. It will grow much bigger than 15 feet. I saw a couple ones at SFA arboretum that are over 40 feet tall. That's where I got the seeds from. It looks like SFA is the only source for now.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2010 at 10:59AM
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salicaceae(z8b FL)

Cool! I have been looking for a source of it. I recently had colleagues in Mexico collect Populus guzmanantlensis for me, which grows with A. skutchii. I will try to get some seeds.

Have you tried Acer fabri? It is evergreen and has a great red new flush.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2010 at 9:27PM
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lou_midlothian_tx(z8 DFW, Tx)

Hi salicaceae - I've never heard of Acer fabri. It sounds like a cool plant.

I didn't know it was Acer skutchii till the director of the arboretum told me. It looks like other sugar maple and I just assumed it was these typical southern sugar maple because they were everywhere. They had these big samaras. I tried to collect as many seeds as I could but there were a lot that I couldn't reach. When I got home, i cracked them open and I found only 3 what could be viable seeds and only one germinated. It was smart of SFA to put down a thin layer of composted pine bark on the ground since there are many seeds and you could easily come up with a few hundreds despite its low germination rate. Much better than collecting seeds and growing in the greenhouse hoping for a few babies.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2010 at 9:53AM
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georgeinbandonoregon(z9 OR)

FWIW, acer skutchii does just fine in oregon near the south coast growing on very acid soil---10' tall but no flowers or fruits yet. a feberi does o.k. too---its leaves are very un "maple like" long and narrow.

    Bookmark   October 24, 2010 at 2:02PM
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arktrees(6b NW Arkansas)

georgeinbandonoregon,
Would love to pictures if you got them.

Arktrees

    Bookmark   October 25, 2010 at 4:11PM
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georgeinbandonoregon(z9 OR)

if you can provide me with your email address i could send you a picture of the skutchii on my property (don't know how to post pictures on this website).

    Bookmark   October 25, 2010 at 5:06PM
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davecreech

Our particular A. skutchii is from Tamulipas, MX, a tree planted in 1994 from seed collected by John Fairy and Carl Schoenfeld, Yuccadoo Nursery. It's at least 40' tall and quite vigorous. We made several thousand seedlings this past spring by heavily mulching after the samaras fell. Scattering them for trialing and evaluation . . . first reports are excellent drought resistance, alkalinity tolerance, and a tendency to being marcescent (shedding leaves late) - we've been less than enamored with fall color on some seedlings, but there's a good opportunity for selections . . . dc

    Bookmark   October 27, 2010 at 2:51PM
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pineresin

"Our particular A. skutchii is from Tamulipas, ..... We made several thousand seedlings this past spring"

What's the likely pollen parent of the seedlings? Any other Acer skutchii, or any A. saccharum or A. grandidentatum, nearby?

Resin

    Bookmark   October 27, 2010 at 6:17PM
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lou_midlothian_tx(z8 DFW, Tx)

Resin,

I asked Dr. Creech last night and he said they don't really know. The tree seems to produce seedlings true to type even though it's surrounded by maple trees. It's just one Acer skutchii.

If it can grow in my rocky limestone soil, I'm happy.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2010 at 11:29AM
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scotjute

lou,
Would be interesting to compare how it does and looks compared to other maples that grow in this area.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2010 at 10:15AM
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davecreech

Hello, Acer skutchii enthusiasts. Here at SFA we've just planted 277 one gallon Acer skutchii's at the Science Research Center on a 15' X 15' spacing. Goals for that planting are more viable seed and possibly selecting a clone that's red. How do you attach a document to these posts?

    Bookmark   December 15, 2010 at 2:54PM
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dricha

Dave, Did you try to attach the link below? If not try that and preview it to see if it goes through.

I must confess that I visited the Arboretum in November to look around, take pictures and a few seeds. The place looked great And I really enjoyed it. We had gone to Peckerwood Gardens for John's 80th the day before. Would you be interested in another Mexican trip? On another forum, someone had just gone down to Sonora to look at the Quercus tarahumara so not everyone is afraid to go. OTOH, those trips to China look pretty cool too.

D.R.

    Bookmark   December 15, 2010 at 6:53PM
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Xtal(z8b Temple. TX)

I'm late to this party, but can anyone tell me if this variety can be tapped for maple syrup?

Thx,
Xtal

    Bookmark   May 14, 2013 at 10:27AM
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lou_midlothian_tx(z8 DFW, Tx)

No idea. Sorry.

    Bookmark   May 14, 2013 at 7:43PM
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Xtal(z8b Temple. TX)

Thanks Lou,

I'm beginning to think that it's value is in the leaf color in the Fall. Thanks for having responded. I wasn't sure that anyone was following this any more. In 3 yrs, people change email addys. So, thanks.

Xtal

    Bookmark   May 14, 2013 at 7:50PM
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lou_midlothian_tx(z8 DFW, Tx)

You could ask Dr. Creech directly about it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dr, Creech

    Bookmark   May 14, 2013 at 7:54PM
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Xtal(z8b Temple. TX)

Thanks Lou,

I'm beginning to think that it's value is in the leaf color in the Fall. Thanks for having responded. I wasn't sure that anyone was following this any more. In 3 yrs, people change email addys. So, thanks.

Xtal

    Bookmark   May 14, 2013 at 7:56PM
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j0nd03

My 2 year old 5 footer died to the ground this past winter in zone 7b in western Arkansas. It was sited in a sheltered location with protection from winter winds provided by a windbreak of junipers.

I also lost a 3-4 year old chalk maple from the winter conditions.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 8:08AM
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Xtal(z8b Temple. TX)

j0nd03,

Glad you chimed in on this, too. As gardeners, we try to push the limits. Sometimes with disastrous results. But, it was worthwhile effort on your part.

This past Winter was incredibly hard on all of our landscapes. I'm assuming that the chalk maple is native to your area.

Xtal

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 8:19AM
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j0nd03

Xtal, the chalk maple was purchased from a mail order nursery that I believe is located in Florida. I do not know the seed source but I do know another seedling purchased with mine survived a zone or two north of my in northwest Arkansas. I really don't have a good thought as to why it died. It was had been growing well the last couple of years with over 2' of growth last year.

The skutchii was still green on the lowest inch of the trunk that was covered in leaf mold as mulch. I didn't find this out until I had already dug up the tree. Still, it had to go, unfortunately. I need to email Dr. Creech sometime soon and give him my report for data collection purposes.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 9:31AM
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hairmetal4ever(Z7 MD)

I'm surprised the Chalk Maple died - it's almost always rated to zone 5. Although a FL seed source (may have been since the nursery was there) might not be as hardy as, say NC or something.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 9:39AM
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arktrees(6b NW Arkansas)

Just to add to the Chalk Maple. As I told John, I am very surprised that his Chalk died. His Chalk Maple, and one of mine originated from Mail Order Natives in Lee, Florida as 1 season seedlings. It's my understanding that they have their own trees from which they collect seed, but where those tree originated, I have no ideal. I have another Chalk Maple from Pine Ridge Gardens in Arkansas which I assume (but don't know it to be correct) of Arkansas seed source for the other Chalk Maple. They are planted within a few feet of one another, and both are very much alive and currently growing vigorously in a weedy un-kept area. Both were subject to sub-zero temps on several occasions this past winter, and 18F 3rd week of April freeze. Both are in a exposed position. They certainly are not in an ideal site. Both appear unconcerned.

Just have to file this one under "I dunt knowwwww???"

Arktrees

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 11:14AM
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hairmetal4ever(Z7 MD)

Could be that John's tree died of non-cold-related issues but just happened to culminate over winter.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 12:36PM
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j0nd03

I also lost deodar cedar 'aurea' due to possible hardiness issues.

I can't imagine what was wrong with the chalk. It showed no stress last year (which was as gravy a year with precip and temps as we could possibly have). It had normal fall color and defoliated the same time as the other sugar maples I have. In fact, all my other sugar maples have pushed more growth this year than any other year owed to last year's favorable conditions. I haven't dug it up yet, but I did try pulling it up. After two growing seasons, that thing is ANCHORED into the ground! The only thing I can keep coming back to is something to do with cold hardiness although that doesn't seem likely.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 1:58PM
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hairmetal4ever(Z7 MD)

I would assume you looked, but was there any sign of girdling, borers, etc? Any kind of trunk damage?

The deodar out front here that had some needle burn is pushing gorgeous bright green growth now, so appears to be 100% fine.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 2:39PM
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j0nd03

Hair, my other species deodar which was much better established, is doing great. It got hit by the late freeze and lost some new needles but other than that it is fine.

The chalk has no visible damage whatsoever. A real head scratcher as Ark stated. I'm usually pretty good at figuring out what went wrong (what I screwed up!) but not with this one. Perhaps when I dig it up I will find something.

Getting pretty OT here, perhaps if you or anyone has any other questions about my chalk, we should take it an email conversation. Mine is visible on my member page.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 4:38PM
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lou_midlothian_tx(z8 DFW, Tx)

I wonder how that tree is doing. I didn't have room so I planted it in a neighbor's backyard over 2 years ago. It looked like it was doing well in its first year before we moved. I planted another one at parents' in law in central Texas and it grew pretty well last year. It appears that it had left out pretty early and got zapped by late hard freeze in March but it's still alive.

Sorry to hear that y'all lost a couple trees. :-(

    Bookmark   May 8, 2014 at 6:10PM
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winterfell

Mine is just a second year seedling it is 7 or 8 feet tall. I'll get a picture tomorrow if i remember. It is from a native plant nursery up the road in San Marcos madrone nursery.

It's in my backyard with a large big tooth maple. The big tooth maple self seeds (makes a good crop every two or three years) but I'm hoping to cross them when this one flowers. Big tooth maple is great but grows super slow.

The cloud forest maple has to be one of the most vigorous plants I've grown. If it keeps growing like this its going to get a trunk chop and bonsai pot.

    Bookmark   August 31, 2014 at 3:13AM
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j0nd03

I think I have stated this in another topic or two but FTW the chalk maple WAS NOT cold hardy. It died to the ground. When I dug it up, the roots were alive and it had sprouted two or three new growth shoots from the root collar. Weird.

    Bookmark   August 31, 2014 at 9:40AM
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treebird101

I have 2 Acer Skutchi potted here in southwest Iowa. They seem pretty healthy. I will let you guys know if they survive the winter.

    Bookmark   September 30, 2014 at 1:06AM
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