Own root purchases from DA website

zone6-njDecember 30, 2013

Hi everyone,

I am placing an order for DA roses from his website, using a special offer he has available, just wondering, I know weather makes a difference, but with:

Overall vigor
Bloom size
Amount of blooms on bush at any given time

Which roses do you feel did better grafted as opposed to own root. If purchased own root it would be from DA himself, not a band. So they would already have at least 2 years on them. I know it takes a year or two (or three, actually) to get going but if I'm gonna buy a rose that will rebloom better on dr Huey and is weak or rarely reblooming on own roots, I would rather save my time and get dr Huey from now.

Planning on getting:
Jude the obscure
Munstead wood
Lady emma Hamilton
Princess Alexandria of Kent
Young lycidas
Golden celebration
Gertrude jekyll
Claire austin

I understand there are certain factors that go into play, but I mean I've heard stories where a rose just doesn't rebloom well on own roots as opposed to grafted or is just a weaker grower on own roots, or never gets past "x" feet on own roots. I would prefer to get own roots, since I'm in a zone that potentially lowers to 10 degrees F, this rarely happens but it's possible, as I'm in zone 6. I just want to have an overall nice rose, the size of the bloom, quantity of bloom and rebloom is a big deal to me and if I'm missing out because I decided to go on root, I might as well go grafted.

Please let me know of own root experiences from DA purchased roses as well!

I appreciate the help, and happy new year to you all!!!

This post was edited by zone6-nj on Mon, Dec 30, 13 at 23:13

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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

I have Munstead Wood and PAOK own root from DA website. The PAOK was tiny on arrival! Like a 3" cane and 3" of roots! The MW was a little bigger, but not much. The PAOK grew rapidly and has been vigorous. I would not believe it had been that tiny on arrival. On the other hand, the MW has remained tiny (18"). The first year I got exactly one flower from MW. Last year, a dozen. I moved it to a better spot this year to see if that will help; I think it will.

One option would be to get grafted and with the bud union buried below ground level many of them will likely own-root themselves. Austins have always been very good about doing that here. I think all of mine have own-rooted themselves.

    Bookmark   December 31, 2013 at 11:54AM
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I have PAOK grafted and it is a monster rebloomer. You probably won't go wrong either way with her.

    Bookmark   December 31, 2013 at 12:29PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Myself, I'd get them grafted, though I have lots of own roots in my garden also. As long as you bury the graft 1-2 inches, you don't need to worry about the temps getting down to 10 degrees or even lower. Myself, I like the little extra oomph a graft gives a new rose. My grafted Munstead Wood, for instance, started blooming very quickly and rebloomed twice that first summer. It's still less than 2 ft after its first season, but I expect it to grow to expected heights next year.

On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with getting your DAs own root--my two Molineux are own root and have been growing fine for the past 5-6 years.

That's the advantage of a Zone 6--kinda inbetween extremes, so we can go either way with no problem. : )

Good luck.


    Bookmark   December 31, 2013 at 1:21PM
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thanks a lot for the replies! very much appreciated.

hoovb - thanks for the info on how they've done with you! I really do want own root, I heard they become more bushy in the long run, and I think my best bet is to get the grafted and bury a few inches deeper. Question though - When I bury them and they eventually become own root, what happens to the Dr. Huey rootstock? Does it just die? Or does the plant go half and half - half vigor from own root, half vigor from dr huey? Eventually, if buried deep - will it turn into an own root completely? Thank you!

zaphod - I am happy to hear about the rebloom! How's the scent? I am trying to go all very fragrant in this one area of my house (a lot of people come in this area) so I would love to have PaoK there, just would like for it to be fragrant like the roses I plan to put next to it (Jude, brother cafdael, golden celebration, WS2000)

Kate - I know, we are in the middle aren't we! Sometimes I feel I wish i was at an extreme (either zone 9, or zone 4) that way, the decision wouldnt be so hard, I like the idea of own root, the fact that they get more bushy, less likely to get sick or resort back to rootstock - but then again grafted has so many perks. decisions!

Happy new year to everyone!

    Bookmark   December 31, 2013 at 2:41PM
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view1ny NY 6-7

zaphod, I was interested in reading about your grafted PAOK. I have 2, and after 3 years mine are both tiny (about 12" high) with very few blooms. I had one in a pot and one in the ground (doing very poorly so I dug it up & put it in a pot.)

I'm glad for you that yours is a monster rebloomer and I wish I had the same experience. Now when I buy Austins, I look for the tall ones since the 3 footers turn out to be one foot high for me. Maybe I just have to give them more time.

    Bookmark   December 31, 2013 at 3:04PM
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Munstead Wood, Lady EH and PAOK did very well for their 1st year in my garden. All own root.

    Bookmark   January 1, 2014 at 11:26PM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

what happens to the Dr. Huey rootstock?

The ones I have dug up seem to retain a vestige of Dr. H., mixed in among a mass of own root. Eventually it may disappear, but it apparently takes a while in this climate and this soil. This may be different in your climate.

    Bookmark   January 2, 2014 at 7:02PM
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After mostly buying bands for Austins, I started to get most of my Austins ownroot bareroot from DA USA. Although they are far smaller than grafted plants from venders such as Palatine, the ownroot bareroots I got are far more established plants than bands, and, for the most part, they have worked very well for me.

The only one on your list that I got from DA ownroot bareroot is Mustead Wood, which was planted in a pot in March 2011. It quickly developed into a good sized plant (sorry, I don't recall the size and how soon it became a fuller plant) and gave me a decent spring flush and a fall flush. So yes, I think I am better off with the bareroot plant than with a band. I haven't noticed the issue of lack of vigor, but I don't have a grafted MW to compare against.

    Bookmark   January 2, 2014 at 8:46PM
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Also, just saw that Lady EH on your list, and I think mine was also ownroot bareroot from DA. it did not do much the first season here: it was completely defoliated for most of the season due to blackspot. I don't spray. It was in a shady spot, and I will move it to see if it improves. If not, it will be shovel pruned.

    Bookmark   January 2, 2014 at 8:54PM
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Thanks a lot for all of the replies! I do have an important question though -

If I get them grafted from David Austin, am I pretty much gonna get virused plants? As of now I've never dealt with RMV and don't really want it, because the plants I get will be near a bunch of other roses, so I could be potentially giving RMV to all of my other roses. Am I safer getting them own root?

I just want to get jude, golden celebration, and ws2000 grafted at least because from what I heard they are more vigorous and better repeat bloomers grafted. I'm so confused, I just don't want virused plants but I want nice vigorous ones as well.

Thanks again!

    Bookmark   January 8, 2014 at 4:36PM
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dublinbay z6 (KS)

Any grafted rose you buy anywhere has a reasonable chance of being virused (RMV), although there is no reason to assume that grafting automatically means virused rose--because there is also a chance it is not. No one can predict, but we do know that virused stock is common in the rose industry.

Out of all the grafted rosed I have in my garden, only ONE has shown occasional signs of being virused--the non-Austin called Earth Song. That "sign" consists only of zigzagged lines on some of its leaves, usually for a short time at some point in the late spring. The rest of the year, I see nothing. It certainly hasn't hurt the rose any--it blooms and reblooms profusely and boldly, receiving lots of compliments from visitors, and it very disease-resistant. So even though it has RMV, it hasn't affected the rose in any other respect that I can see, and it most definitely has not passed on the virus to other roses in the 7-8 years it has been in my garden.

I think you may be confusing RMV with RRD--Rose Rosette Disease or Virus. RRD is entirely different and you must dig up and dispose of an RRD rose. However, nothing needs to be done about an RMV rose--people have been known to grow them for 20+ years in their gardens.

So what it all comes down to is that:
1. RMV is NOT contagious, so there is nothing for you to worry about.

2. There's a chance that MOST grafted roses MIGHT have RMV (or maybe not!). Austin roses are no more likely to be virused than most grafted roses you buy.

3. The ONE rose in my garden that has RMZ is NOT an Austin and has been blooming profusely for 7-8 years now.

I still prefer the extra oomph a graft gives a rose starting out in the garden, but I also have many own-root roses as well. It's like six one way and a half-dozen the other when it comes to issues like that.

Hope that helps.


    Bookmark   January 8, 2014 at 5:22PM
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nanadollZ7 SWIdaho(Zone 7 Boise SW Idaho)

I totally agree with Kate. Just one of my Austin roses is affected by RMV and that rose is very vigorous and blooms normally. All my Austin roses are grafted, and do well, I think. Diane

    Bookmark   January 8, 2014 at 6:30PM
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Thank you very much, Kate! You're right, I was confusing RMV and RRD! Both are 3 letters and start with R, haha.

I just needed someone that reassurance, I will now get those roses grafted. That extra oomph is definitely preferred! Every rose is different, I must say as well. Grafted does help to a certain extent, however I purchased own root lady of Shallott and grafted brother cadfael from DA last year, and lady of Shallott grew 2x faster and bloomed 3x more than brother cadfael! Then again, they are two completely different roses. Lady of Shallott was always said to grow very nicely, if I'm not mistaken you grow it grafted if I remember correctly (beautiful pictures).

Can't wait to place my spring order! Already sick of winter, yesterday was 3 degrees Fahrenheit! The lowest it's been in years.


    Bookmark   January 8, 2014 at 6:32PM
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Just saw that message Diane. I always wondered, where do you get a majority of your Austin's from? I know your jude and cadfael are from DA, but how about PAoK, Eglantyne, golden celebration?

I do want Eglantyne grafted - got it own root from chamblees last spring and saw 2 blooms, then again it seems to want to take its time growing, still very small. So I'm not judging now.

Thanks for the replies all!

    Bookmark   January 8, 2014 at 6:35PM
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nanadollZ7 SWIdaho(Zone 7 Boise SW Idaho)

My first DA roses, at my current home, were from David Austin directly. I've purchased older Austins from Palatine and Pickering in Canada. But mostly I now buy my Austins locally from a very fine nursery. The roses are in five gallon DA pots with metal tags, etc. Gorgeous roses that the nursery will keep and care for you, if you prepay, of course, in a special greenhouse till you are ready to pick them up and plant them at home. They are huge and usually blooming. So, Jude, Cadfael, and Eglantyne came from DA directly, but Golden Cel and PAoK (and others) were purchased locally.
Watch for Bro Cadfael--he'll get going, I'm sure, and grow larger than LofS.
I'm sorry for your cold, but it will be over soon if not already. Way back in late Nov or so, we got an Arctic blast and had several days below zero. Nothing was ready for it, and Idaho, being a total nonentity to weatherpersons, never gets any publicity about these things, whether it's the third hottest location in summer or subzero in winter. Gripe, gripe, one of my favorite things to do. Still I've never lost a rose to cold or heat, and I don't protect anything. Diane

    Bookmark   January 8, 2014 at 7:27PM
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