Best Time to Move Volunteer Trees, Halloween or Thanksgiving?

edlincoln(6A)October 28, 2013

I just noticed a bunch of baby Rose of Sharon inexplicably growing in shade behind a hedge. They appear to be runners from a Rose of Sharon we planted. There is also an unidentified volunteer deciduous tree that may or may not be a Rose of Sharon. They still have leaves. There is also a volunteer Eastern Red Cedar. This is at my Mom's house.

I'm in Zone 6. It's been an uncharacteristic mid to low 30s at night lately (50s during the day). It was warmer last year around Thanksgiving.

1.) When would be the best time to move them? Thursday or Thanksgiving? Those are the two times I would have time to get down there and move them.
2.) When I dig them up it will leave a hole near the foundation. What do I fill the hole with to avoid creating basement leak problems? I have potting soil, gravel and sand.

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

ed!!!!

look at me.. eye contact ...

both are near invasive.. and that is why they are popping up EVERYWHERE ... the birds are spreading them ....

do not think a free plant is a good plant ... simply because it is free ...

kill them..

and go spend 5 bucks on some worthy plants ..

ken

ps: tree planting is not related to civic holidays.. lol ...

    Bookmark   October 28, 2013 at 6:59PM
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edlincoln(6A)

I don't believe any plant that is native to the area can be invasive by definition...technically they are the plants that are supposed to be here, and we are invasive. Eastern Red Cedar is native to the area and one of the few trees that consistently survives the bad conditions at this location. Heck, the area is named after them.

OK...none of this justifies the Rose of Sharon. But it's pretty, the parent has been fairly well behaved for years, and despite the volunteers I'm pretty sure it's a seedless cultivar. Mowing should keep the runners under control.

I know tree planting isn't related to civic holidays (other then Arbor Day perhaps). However, this is at my parent's place, and my visits to my parents (and my days off) are related to civic holidays.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2013 at 7:20PM
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Dzitmoidonc(6)

The Eastern Red Cedar is probably Juniperus virginiana? Be aware that here in PA they are host #1 for the Cedar-Apple-Wheat Rust. Some years the orange blobs on the twigs will make you run away and scream. About every 5 or 6 years the conditions are perfect to grow 2 inch long slimy blobs that are almost Halloween orange. This is the fruiting bodies (sex organs) of a peculiar fungus that attacks several tree species. Chief among them for me are the apple trees. Cedar Hawthorn Rust attacks the Crataegus phaenopyrum, and there is also a Cedar Quince Rust that pits the quince fruit.

The Hawthorn really gets clobbered by the rust. It makes thickened twigs with orange threads sticking out. All the twigs with a lesion die, and some years that can be most of the growth. Once I eliminated all the Juniper around, the incidence of rust dropped more than 90%. The bad news is, now I have to prune the Hawthorn. If there are apple orchards nearby, that is one tree that good neighbors don't grow.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2013 at 7:36PM
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brandon7 TN_zone(7)

"I don't believe any plant that is native to the area can be invasive by definition...technically they are the plants that are supposed to be here..."

Yep, you're correct (at least by most normal scientific definitions).

"...despite the (Rose-of-Sharon's) volunteers I'm pretty sure it's a seedless cultivar."

hmmmm...reeeally??? (-;

"When I dig them up it will leave a hole near the foundation(, w)hat do I fill the hole with to avoid creating basement leak problems? I have potting soil, gravel and sand."

You'd probably be OK using gravel to fill the hole and then capping that with native soil. I'd definitely skip the potting soil!

    Bookmark   October 28, 2013 at 10:21PM
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edlincoln(6A)

I've never seen anything remotely like a seed on the mamma Rose of Sharon. What do Rose of Sharon seeds look like? The babies are springing up in a spot where I wouldn't think anything could grow from seed...It's growing from mulch in a shaded spot squeezed in between evergreen hedges and the house. A tree growing from a larger trees roots would come up from under the mulch and be on life support until it got taller...

I've seen two of those growths, and always wondered what they were. There are A LOT of Juniperus virginiana in the area...removing all the hosts would require napalm. No wheat farms or apple orchards. Some corn fields, pumpkin farms. Healthy looking ornamental apple trees and a lot of crab apple. A sick looking peach tree that always produces diseased fruit.

Wouldn't sand be better to fill the hole?

I notice no one voted on when to do the move.

This post was edited by edlincoln on Tue, Oct 29, 13 at 10:15

    Bookmark   October 28, 2013 at 11:00PM
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brandon7 TN_zone(7)

I'd do it Thursday, but either time would probably be fine. I'd guess most of your deciduous trees have lost their leaves by now?

    Bookmark   October 28, 2013 at 11:26PM
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famartin(z5 NE NV)

To answer the OP question, now is fine. Aren't there some years where the ground might start freezing by Thanksgiving? Obviously by then, its too late.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 2:38AM
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salicaceae(z8b FL)

Dzitmoidonc,

I think you're confused. There is no such thing as "cedar apple wheat rust". There is cedar apple rust - Gymnosporangium spp. and wheat rust - Puccinia tritici, but they are different pathogens altogether.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 8:49AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

i understood you will be at moms on either day ... i was joking about holiday time ...

you refill the hole WITH NATIVE SOIL ... you get it from somewhere else on the property ...

besides... this time of year.. with the plants dormant.. there is no reason not to bare root them.. and leave all the soil there ...

wrap them like a burrito in some newspaper... wet.. and wrap in a plastic grocery bag ... just to keep the wet paper from making a mess in the car.. the plant above is NOT wrapped in plastic ...

should last at least a few days as such ... plant when you get home ... no need to pot them ... simply plant them ...

the seeds got near the foundation.. from a bird sitting on the gutter or roof edge.. finishing the digestive process ... wink wink.. if you know what i mean ... lol ...

if the trees in your area are changing color... then you can basically presume.. all plants are dormant or nearly so ... expect any leaves to fall off soon after moving ...

you have been warned.. do whatever pleases you ... thats how i learned.. when 10 years later.. i cursed moving a ROS for the billion seedlings popping up everywhere.. only took me 5 years to kill them all ...

ken

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 9:29AM
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edlincoln(6A)

The trees in the area haven't lost their leaves, but most are changing color. Oddly, the Rose of Sharon and mystery tree are still green. (We had a long stretch of unseasonably warm weather, it's only now getting cold.) Last couple years the ground wasn't frozen solid in January. (I've taken to planting the Christmas Holly after Christmas). But I'm new to gardening, and haven't checked before a couple years ago...I think the last couple winters were unusually warm.

I'm sure the bird theory explains the cedar (which is suspiciously near the bird feeder). I'm just surprised a seed that fell on thick mulch in shade could grow into a tree. Don't Rose of Sharon do runners?

Part of the purpose of this is I've been told having trees grow right up against the foundation isn't a good thing, and they should be removed. I figured I'd use them to replace some lost trees while I'm at it.

As an unrelated aside, I recently sent my parents an American Persimmon. They brought it inside where it was very warm. I planted it outside. Wondering if that was normal fall leaf shedding or shock from sudden temperature changes.

This post was edited by edlincoln on Tue, Oct 29, 13 at 10:33

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 10:29AM
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edlincoln(6A)

I ended up transplanting one of the Rose of Sharons. Funny, a wild tree growing out of a French Drain (or something) doesn't look anything like a balled and burlapped tree when you dig it up. It was fun how the roots where hiding under bricks.

I ended up with a slender trunk that had a few short roots come out of the bottom part. Kind of like a bare root tree I mail-ordered.

I moved it to a bare spot in the yard with hard clay soil I could barely dig...we'll see if it takes.

The Cedar and mystery tree will have to wait. I'll have to decide whether I have to do something about all the other baby Rose of Sharon...they are closer to the foundation then I realized.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2013 at 12:33AM
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