Oak tree ID

ElektronNovember 26, 2013

I found this tree growing right next to a river on our property. I am unsure if it is Q. Shumardii or Buckleyi.

I couldn't get a good picture of the tree itself due to the lack of daylight. I have a couple I can post, but they are dark and from a distance.

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Elektron

More leaves

    Bookmark   November 26, 2013 at 10:06PM
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bostedo(8a tx-bp-dfw)

The most distinctive leaf feature on Shumards I look for are the hair tufts (pubescence) on the underside in the axils of the principal veins. They remain visible even after the leaves change. If your tree leaves don't have these, it's most likely something other than a Shumard.

Here is a link that might be useful:

This post was edited by bostedo on Wed, Nov 27, 13 at 11:47

    Bookmark   November 27, 2013 at 11:25AM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

No acorns on the ground beneath?

    Bookmark   November 27, 2013 at 1:04PM
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dricha

The leaves look pretty small to me. If your west of I-35 it's more likely to be a Q. buckleyi. Where is the tree located?

    Bookmark   November 27, 2013 at 6:21PM
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lou_midlothian_tx(z8 DFW, Tx)

Supposedly, Shumard oak has larger terminal bud (1/4") and smaller lateral buds (1/8").

Texas red oak has equal size of all buds at the size of 1/4".

I came across an article years ago (link is not available anymore unfortunately) about it. Seems legit after looking at many red oaks over the years.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2013 at 6:35PM
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lou_midlothian_tx(z8 DFW, Tx)

What I have observed over the years are that Texas Red oak with equal size buds tend to have deeper lobes than Shumard Oak.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2013 at 6:51PM
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dricha

Not to mention the trees look different and grow in different habitats. To complicate things there are hybrids of the two that grow in the counties along the I-35 corridor. Shumards are bottom land trees(90ft) that grow with pecan, burr and chinkapin oaks, green ash, american elm etc. Tx red oaks(35ft) grow on limestone with ash juniper, tx ash, Bigalow oak(Q. sinuata var. breviloba), cedar elm. you can find isolated populations east of 35 in far north TX but for the most part they are west of 35.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2013 at 8:14PM
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Elektron

Thanks for all the replies.

The tree is located in a river bottom in southern Wise county (west of I-35). Lots of pecan, ash, and american elm around.

I couldn't find any acorns, but I will look for some the next time I can. It's hard to get close up to the tree because it is on the opposite side of the bank that our property is on.

The main reasons I am conflicted are the fact that Shumards usually grow further east, and although we are more in the range of Texas red oaks, they don't tend to grow in river bottoms like this one has. I was beginning to lean towards Shumard, then I noticed the leaves look more akin to Texas red oak.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2013 at 5:05AM
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Elektron

I'll also look to see if I can find any pubescence under the leaves.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2013 at 6:06AM
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Elektron

We are located more to the west of the natural shumard zones and the tree has a shape more like the pictures I have seen of the Texas red oaks (shorter, more oval and fuller) than the typical taller, pyramidal shumards. This makes me want to say texas red, but then some of the leaves I found are pretty large, probably around 6 inches long and 4 inches wide.

Does anyone know if Texas red oaks grow in river bottoms like the tree I have found? I have always read that they like the drier, rockier soils and shumards are usually found near rivers.

This post was edited by Elektron on Sun, Dec 1, 13 at 1:50

    Bookmark   December 1, 2013 at 1:27AM
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poaky1

These are Shumard oaks. Why are there oak leaves and other plant examples and cold examples of leaves on display?

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 12:59AM
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dricha

I'm sure they are Q. buckleyi. One tree can have a lot of different shaped leaves within the canopy. THe leaves on the outer branches give the best details to what the tree is. It's just guess work since we are not seeing the whole tree.

    Bookmark   December 14, 2013 at 11:36AM
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Elektron

If it is between shumardii and buckleyi, I am going to go with buckleyi.

Could it possibly be a Quercus falcata? Q. pagoda?

Thanks again for all the help.

This post was edited by Elektron on Sun, Dec 22, 13 at 22:53

    Bookmark   December 22, 2013 at 9:55PM
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j0nd03

Not falcata

    Bookmark   December 22, 2013 at 10:01PM
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Elektron

The more I research, the more possibilities I find, lol.

I found an oak called a black oak, quercus velutina that I think could be another possibility.

It really bugs me that I don't know what exactly this oak is. I believe I have borderline OCD, lol.

This post was edited by Elektron on Mon, Dec 23, 13 at 3:34

    Bookmark   December 22, 2013 at 10:31PM
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dricha

Your too far west for Q. velutina. There are some in Fannin county near the Red River but that's about as far west as they go. Look for Benny Simpson's field guide to Texas trees which gives a distribution maps for each species.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2013 at 12:40PM
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Elektron

The largest leaves are approximately 5" to 5.5" long.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2013 at 6:05AM
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Elektron

More leaves

    Bookmark   December 28, 2013 at 6:12AM
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Elektron

Best shot I could get of the entire tree.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2013 at 6:15AM
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