Quercus coccinea

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5December 22, 2011

and some conifers.. at the link

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

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j0nd03

Posting oak pics in the conifer forum then linking back to the tree forum? What have we done to **** you off, Ken?

Trees look fantastic BTW

John

    Bookmark   December 22, 2011 at 9:03AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

i think you are joking around ... an will presume such .. the typed word is sometimes misunderstood ...

i didnt want to irritate the GW elves.. by using the space to post the same pix in two different forums ... i though the solution was brilliant ...

ken

    Bookmark   December 22, 2011 at 9:47AM
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j0nd03

lol yes, it was in good fun ;)

    Bookmark   December 22, 2011 at 10:07AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

well played.. lol

ken

    Bookmark   December 22, 2011 at 10:38AM
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arktrees(6b NW Arkansas)

GREAT pics Ken. Those trees are awesome!

I have never been much of an oak guy, but in the last 2 years I have come to appreciate them ALLOT more. It started by teaching myself more about them so that I could properly advise someone I knew about what Oaks did well here and their characteristics. This went to the S.O. wanting to plant an Oak in our yard. That lead to more research and more appreciation, and finally to planting a 2" Caliper B&B Scarlet Oak November 2010. This tree FAR exceeded my expectations for the first year. Putting me as a fan of the Scarlet Oak, and several others that I have now planted for friends/relatives. And your dogged love of Oaks (and other such as luckyp, etc) helped to educate me, and give me realistic expectations.

Now, it's my duty to turn you away from the MHC (Maple Haters Club). ;-)

Arktrees

    Bookmark   December 22, 2011 at 11:39AM
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j0nd03

My memory is jogging atm... Ken, weren't you the one who said you had 6 scarlets with varying fall color displays. 2 very good, 2 good, and 2 average? They all appear to have been excellent this year, lucky you. I wonder if you would be so kind to point out the two individuals that usually have the poorer coloration? Not being a smarty, just curious ;)

John

    Bookmark   December 22, 2011 at 12:21PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

you tree snob surprise me... hitting the link to the conifer forum.. yet coming back to reply in the tree forum ... what a hoot ..

jon.. boy you need to kill a few brain cells .. great memory .. but i stand by my 2-2-2 .... and those are the ones pictured ... based on a normal fall day ...

apparently even a blind nut [acorn] can find a squirrel.. because i snapped some prime pix.. in prime light.. on a prime day ...

any other gray nov day in MI .. you would have seen the difference ...

pic 3.. are the best two .... an actual deep deep red ...

pic 2.. more toward an orange ...

and the last pic shows two of them.. with different color ...

ark .. as a hosta grower.. you will NEVER make me an acer lover ... lol

and on my windy plain .. JMap ... just cant take winter ...

but the really deep brained of you tree peeps.. will recall those variegated maples i have ... just not near the hosta ...

ken

    Bookmark   December 22, 2011 at 1:53PM
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j0nd03

I make it a point not to post over on the dark side (conifer) forum unless absolutely necessary =p Besides, I am actually posting in the appropriate topic since these are deciduous trees and not conifers =p X2

    Bookmark   December 22, 2011 at 2:34PM
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arktrees(6b NW Arkansas)

ken,
Yes I remember your variegated maples. At least a variegated Norway Maple, and Est (aka Eskimo) Sunset Sycamore Maple. Seems like there may have been another as well. In fact as I recall you really like variegated plants in general.

I just had to take the op to poke a little fun at you is all. :-) In all seriousness though, I suspect your soil has allot to do with why you have trouble with hostas under maples. Here we do not have the sand soil that you do, and as long as the native soil is intact, there is rarely problem with other plants growing underneath maples, at least until they are very large. The exception would be that Silver Maples still get surface roots as they get large. Just a thought.

Again thanks for the pics. Love seeing others trees as well.

Arktrees

    Bookmark   December 22, 2011 at 4:28PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

Those oaks are all going to grow much larger than they are now.

    Bookmark   December 22, 2011 at 4:43PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

yeah ...

by the time i am as old as bboy.. the hosta will all be dead and gone .. the conifers will all be dead and gone ..

and the squirrels will be infesting my nuts ...

what more could a guy want than acreage under full shade from mature oaks ...

not many gardeners can take the long view of their garden.. the oaks were planted for 20 t0 40 years down the line ...

ken

    Bookmark   December 22, 2011 at 4:47PM
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Embothrium(USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA)

>and the squirrels will be infesting my nutsSounds highly unpleasant.

    Bookmark   December 22, 2011 at 6:43PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

it the fact that they bury them around the yard... that makes it most problematic ...

thx for having a sense of humor...

and Merry Christmas to you and yours ... and everybody ...

ken

    Bookmark   December 23, 2011 at 8:27AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

you tree snob surprise me... hitting the link to the conifer forum.. yet coming back to reply in the tree forum ... what a hoot ..

Damn funny, I was wondering that too before I got to your post.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2011 at 1:35PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

to tell the truth.. the conifer peeps let me down.. only 2 replied ..

my respect for the tree nuts has gone up exponentially ..

ken

    Bookmark   December 23, 2011 at 5:04PM
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wisconsitom

Speaking of nuts, I was all set to jump on Arktrees' for stating that in good soil, hostas would thrive under maples. But I caught myself in mid-jump upon reading the exception for very large, and silver. The very large and silver maple that lived in my yard up until 2 winters ago had the curious effect of causing nice large clumps of transplanted hostas to shrink. After a few years, nothing left!

+oM

    Bookmark   December 23, 2011 at 5:27PM
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j0nd03

"my respect for the tree nuts has gone up exponentially .. "


By jp_42_82 at 2011-12-23

    Bookmark   December 23, 2011 at 5:44PM
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arktrees(6b NW Arkansas)

To be fair +om, I was also speaking mostly in more general terms. Hostas are grown here, but not nearly in the numbers further north. But I have seen them very happy under mature Red and Sugar Maples. But have not seen them under the very large trees.

Arktrees

    Bookmark   December 23, 2011 at 5:46PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Hostas are grown like weeds under large mature silver, sugar and norway maples. Its the clay soil.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2011 at 10:23PM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

ok.. you guys are messing with me ... right????

do you want me to lower your quality rating based on your opinions of growing hosta???

i have in excess of 1500 different kinds... have been on 2 national tours ... blah.. blah.. blah ... and i am telling you that a vast majority will not prosper.. long term.. under maple ... yeah.. there are a few warhorses.. that can grow on the driveway w/o soil.. the undulatas for sure [that would be the standard green.. green with white.. and white with green] ....

but you are not going to find many peeps in the hosta forum ... 5 years after bragging that they grow like weeds under maples... continuing that brag.. rather than bemoaning the fact ...

dudes .... stick to trees wherein you are the masters ...

MC & HNY !!!!

ken

    Bookmark   December 24, 2011 at 8:58AM
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j0nd03

I grow 1000's of hostas underneath champion silver maples with ease and have for decades. But I really know what I am doing. I make the hosta roots fuse with the silver maple roots after about 2 years but I have to use a secret homemade fertilizer applied during an undisclosed phase of the moon during my astrological birth sign to achieve the fusion. And that is just step 1 of 7. It gets a little more complicated after that. The results are well worth all the work and incantations, though! You'll figure it out some day, bro. I have faith in you ;)

    Bookmark   December 24, 2011 at 9:28AM
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arktrees(6b NW Arkansas)

Ken, would NEVER begin to tell you that I know more about Hostas than you, cause it just ain't true. The whole point I was working at was that apparently allot of soils do not produce the surface roots that cause you such trouble. That for many locations, underneath a mature maples is not a death zone for any other plant. Hostas, I make no claim, they are not that popular here. Those that are here are mostly the old standby types that you find in big box stores.

Regardless, your trees look great. Your place looks great. I'm sure the Hostas are pampered, and I for one much appreciate the pictures.

Now you need to pry that secret formula (a.k.a. what ever it is he's been drinking while working with/looking at his plants) so that we can get you to turn in you MHC card. ;-)

Arktrees

    Bookmark   December 24, 2011 at 10:53AM
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wisconsitom

To be sure, in my example, the silver maple was the largest of its species in this city, which is full of silvers. 90 feet tall, nearly that wide, a trunk bigger than a pickup truck's cab. Surface roots? Uh yeah!

Ken's point about initial success leading to later failure is spot on. Mine were okay for a couple years but then entered their death spiral. Also, banish any thought that you can amend the soil where the hostas are to go, thereby securing some advantage for them. The silver maple's roots will colonize it within about two hours!

+oM

    Bookmark   December 24, 2011 at 2:29PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

I'm serious...there are tons of old foggies growing hostas under maples in my old neighborhood.

In fact there is one that has an amazing hosta collection under either a sugar or norway maple.

I'll post the pic in spring...make sure you're on skype so we can see your head explode when clicking the link to the photo.

I was growing Patriot hosta within 7' of a 12 year old Silver Maple...its was 16 years when I left. They were still looking perfectly normally this past year on 17 during a drive by. So thats at least 5 years!

You do make a point though, I'm sure these are all tried and true, vigorous growing hostas.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2011 at 10:23PM
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wisconsitom

Heh, 12 year old maple. 'Nuff said. That tree's just a babe. I was talking about big, dominant maples like the one I described in my yard. Of course there are hostas in proximity to maples.

Brother in law in a neighboring town, is a collector, which I'm not. He had the big-time display going under his large silver maple for years, won prizes, the whole bit. All those plants are gone now, having shortly after their peak years begun a steady decline. So too is the tree now for that matter!

Soils could have a bearing on some variation in this effect. Where we are, there's deep clay loam over red clay sub. Take a tree like SM that already is shallow rooted, they're practically on stilts here ;^)

+oM

    Bookmark   December 25, 2011 at 1:44AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

I just gave "my example". Technically 17 now...so just think you could grow hosta under this thing for at LEAST 17 years!

Looks like I can add you to the head explosion (lol) with the mature hosta garden under a mature, probably 30-40 year old, norway or sugar...I can't remember.

Here is the one Silver maple I kept. Hosta where long gone at this point.

That Lilac and Hibiscus look to be doing good as well. The Hibiscus is 8' for perspective.

My whole point is that plants intermingle differently amongst various types of soil.

Shoot, I just highjacked this thread! Nice oaks, Ken!

    Bookmark   December 25, 2011 at 9:45AM
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poaky1

I posted a question and it got sent to the conifer forum, I wasn't paying attention to the forum intermingling that was going on when I pushed the submit button, but anyway here goes. Does Q. Coccinea compete well in growth with Q. Rubra, Q. Alba, Q. Robur, Q. Durandi, Q. Phellos, Q. Imbricaria, Chinkapin oak ( can't think of the name )? I don't expect anyone to get technical about each tree, but in a general situation, if you planted it near ( 35 ft at the closest) these trees, to create a small wooded plot will it compete well enough to not be overtaken. I have heard they grow slow, that's why I ask. All of the other trees will be small, just like the Q. Coccinea, when they are planted. This will be a small area so it won't be like a large forest as far as darkness. Hope I mentioned all the info needed for an informed answer, I usually forget something!

    Bookmark   December 28, 2011 at 10:04PM
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poaky1

I'm sorry Ken. I did forget something. To start my own thread! Or my own post I should say. If nobody replies I post my own question tommorrow, I am currently being ousted off the computer, other family members want to use it now.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2011 at 10:08PM
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