Tulip tree hardiness.

quercus_alba2December 6, 2013

This summer my sister, who lives in Washington DC, brought me a tulip tree seedling she dug up in the DC area.I am worried about hardiness.What are the chances of a tulip tree from the DC area surviving a zone 4 Minnesota winter?

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salicaceae(z8b FL)

There are a few around the Twin Cities, including a large one at the MN Landscape Arboretum. They've seen their share of zone 4 winters. When I lived in St. Paul I had a columnar/fastigiate cultivar called 'Arnold' that I acquired from a nursery in Duluth (where it was also growing well). Success is most likely with seedlings from seed of northern trees. Not sure about a DC source, but it won't be as hardy as a source from central Michigan or NY.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2013 at 11:44PM
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rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7

Early bloomers, the beautiful flowers are likely to be killed annually in your location, I would think.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2013 at 6:47AM
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

i have no problem in my cold z5 ...

and it took almost 10 years for them to start blooming enough to notice ..

extremely fast and large tree.. locate appropriately ...

it should have been planted months ago .... where is it now ...its 16 degrees this morning near ann arbor MI.. i would not be taking a houseplant outdoors today ... which leads tooooo ...

more facts please ...

ken

    Bookmark   December 7, 2013 at 8:24AM
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corkball(4)

I am curious too. I never acquired any because I thought it was a lost cause, but just googling around, I see examples at MN arboretum, Saint Paul, and Eau Claire

http://www.stpaul.gov/index.aspx?NID=4681

I might just give it a whack. When I lived in Madison, WI (zone4-5) I know there were some large ones there.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2013 at 10:23PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

It all depends on what you define as a zone 4 MN winter.

For example if you're borderline zone 4a and planting in an open area, hell no. Its too big and fast growing of a tree to zone push in my opinion (unless it was a known zone 4 even 5 seed source).

If you at the high end of zone 4b with a bit of a microclimate I'd be more inclined to plant as its a nice shade tree.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2013 at 11:11PM
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leftwood(z4a MN)

I have had one at my place just west of the Arboretum since 1995. Below is a pic taken in 2011. First bloom was in 2008. Bloom comes in June, well after leaves emerge and mature. I don't know what could be meant by "early bloomer" and " likely to be killed annually in your location". Although, it does leaf out rather late compared to most trees here. Perhaps that is not normal in its native range. I originally dug it in a friend's yard south of Chicago, provenance unknown, as it was bought at a local nursery.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2013 at 11:49PM
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leftwood(z4a MN)

Apparently, I can only post one pic per post.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2013 at 11:51PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Mine leafs out a bit later too so it likely wouldn't be damaged annually.

Mine was grown in IL can't guarantee the seed source. Planted in protected location, somewhat similar to yours. It hasn't seen a true zone 5a winter yet when it comes to extremes.

This is the year my borderline plants will be tested.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 9:25AM
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quercus_alba2

I know there are tulip trees in zone 4.I was specifically wondering about a tree from such a Southern source.DC is what,zone 6 or 7?

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 7:37PM
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famartin(z5 NE NV)

DC proper is solid Zone 7. Some of the NW burbs are zone 6.

You might as well try it. Unless you want to try something really productive, drive south to zone 6, find an area taken over by invasives like Ailanthus or Albizia, plant it there and hope it dominates.

Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 3:55AM
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Allen456(8)

Seems as though two different trees are being discussed in this thread, Tulip Poplar and Saucer Magnolia.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 6:47AM
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leftwood(z4a MN)

>>>Seems as though two different trees are being discussed in this thread, Tulip Poplar and Saucer Magnolia.

That would explain Rhizo's comment, which was the reason for mine - to prove that tulip trees are not early bloomers.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 9:35AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Yes we all know Tulip trees are in zone 4 but its going to be difficult to seek someone on here with the knowledge to confirm a southern (compared to your location) seed source is succesfully growing in zone 4.

This is still my opinion.

If you're borderline zone 4a and planting in an open area, hell no. Its too big and fast growing of a tree knowing that its potentially a zone 6 or 7 seed source.

If you're at the high end of zone 4b with a bit of a microclimate I'd be more inclined to take the risk of an unknown seed source.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 10:32AM
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jfacendola

I transplanted a small seedling grown from the native tulip trees in my Z8 yard in Southern NC, to my parents z5 in MA. It has not had any problems over the last 4 winters since transplant, and it has been growing like a weed 650 miles north of the original seed source with 0 protection or effort put into it.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 11:35AM
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beng(z6 western MD)

Surprising that tuliptree is so cold hardy. But magnolias generally as a group are more cold-hardy than we think. And tuliptree blooms on new wood, so isn't an "early" bloomer.

That said, catalpa isn't an "early" bloomer either. But in my frost hollow, new catalpa sprouts are often fried by late frosts. It resprouts from secondary buds, but it seems those sprouts don't have embedded flower-buds, and mine will fail to or barely bloom, while others nearby out/above the frost hollow bloom normally.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 11:48AM
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Jimbonsai(5a)

There is a tulip tree in Dundalk Ontario . Its gets to -35c there (Usda zone 4a) . They are hardier trees than you would think .

Here is a link that might be useful: Google Street View

    Bookmark   December 15, 2013 at 9:06AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

How many Dundalks are in ON?

Thats 5b, maybe 5a.

    Bookmark   December 15, 2013 at 7:46PM
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Jimbonsai(5a)

There is only one Dundalk in Ontario . -35c is Usda zone 3b

    Bookmark   December 15, 2013 at 8:06PM
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arktrees(6b NW Arkansas)

beng,
Just a side note FYI. Happen to see an article on DNA sequencing analysis of Tulip Tree and Magnolia's a couple months ago. Turns out from the genetic sequence, that they ARE NOT closely related at all. A case where visual structures indicated one thing (i.e. convergent evolution), while genetics show they diverged far in the past (see link below). Edit: This is not the article I read, but supports the other article that I read preiviously.

Arktrees

Here is a link that might be useful: Tulip Tree

This post was edited by arktrees on Mon, Dec 16, 13 at 9:02

    Bookmark   December 16, 2013 at 8:59AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Sorry Jim, a possible record low (-31 F) doesn't translate into a zone.

I'm very familar with Toronto and its burbs. Its about 1.5 hours northwest of Toronto, which is 6a. Dundalk is 5a borderline 5b.

I'm only pushing as I don't want folks thinking these trees are growing nicely in zone 3b.

Am I missing something?

Here is a link that might be useful: Ontario Hardiness Map

    Bookmark   December 16, 2013 at 10:10AM
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Jimbonsai(5a)

Dundalk is nowhere near a 5b climate , you have to travel west or north or east or south to find it . Dundalk is 1736 feet above sea level (top of the Dundalk Highlands), as opposed to Toronto ,which is 567 feet above sea level. That's what you are missing . I dont think you are very familiar with Toronto suburbs - as Dundalk is too far out in the boonies to be considered a suburb . Be aware that the all time record low in Dundalk is -42c.... far beyond a 5b low temp. Btw I grew a Tulip Tree in North Bay, Ontario when I lived there its a solid zone 3b Usda ( and it still there 22 years later !)

    Bookmark   December 16, 2013 at 7:53PM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

All good, bottomline Dundalk is zone 5a.

You're not going to see a drop from 6a to 3a traveling 1.5 hours north to a higher elevation.

I could take my example where I'm at 1200 and 45min south of me is 500. The difference is 5a vs 5b.

You're going to get colder temps in valleys due to cold air settling.

North Bay, now thats 3b, potentially 4a now. Do you recall where you got the plant? I'm sure the plant was exposed to some extreme 3b temps during that time.

    Bookmark   December 16, 2013 at 10:42PM
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Jimbonsai(5a)

The 1967 plant hardiness zone maps from Agriculture Canada place Dundalk in zone 4b. The 2000 version places Dundalk in 4b. This is Canadian zone 4b which differs from Usda zone 4b (they have different standards ) .This link is attached.
Be aware that a zone 6 in Canada is around a zone 5 Usda . North Bay is in zone 4a and has a record low of -40C/F . Its not a lot colder that Dundalk . The Tulip tree came from Golden Bough tree farm in Marlbank, Ontario (Zone 5a Cdn) .It was slow to establish (tip dieback and slow growth) but now is around 30+ feet tall and has flowered . Since its planted in a backyard its not visible on Google Earth. I also grew Bamboos, Gingko, Peaches, Katsura and evergreen rhodies there that thrived in that climate.

Here is a link that might be useful: Plant Hardiness Zones of Canada

    Bookmark   December 17, 2013 at 2:37AM
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whaas_5a(5A SE WI)

Good to know, the link I provided had this info sourced to the maps. Its only taking min average temps in consideration, so I stand corrected that Dundalk is considered 5a from a USDA perspective only.

Hardiness Zones, Gardening Zones, Growing Zones and Plant Zones refer to defined geographic regions that can support specific plants, flowers and trees. The zones define a minimum range of temperatures that a plant or tree can survive safely in that zone. The most commonly used Hardiness Zones were defined by the USDA. This map applies the USDA hardiness zone classifications to zones in Canada derived from historical climate records available from the National Climate Data Archive.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2013 at 9:30AM
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beng(z6 western MD)

Posted by arktrees 6b NW Arkansas (My Page) on
Mon, Dec 16, 13 at 8:59

Thanks -- interesting link about tuliptree.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2013 at 10:29AM
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