Rose or not? The leaves do not look like rose but the flowers do.

snasxs(7-8 VA)October 8, 2008


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jerijen(Zone 10)

Why do you think the leaves don't look like rose leaves?
There are many differences in the appearance of rose leaves, from one
sort of rose to another.

Jeri

    Bookmark   October 9, 2008 at 12:18AM
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cecily(7 VA)

The leaves look single to me. Maybe a double flowering quince? It would be a great subject to use for bonsai.

    Bookmark   October 9, 2008 at 7:57AM
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hoovb zone 9 sunset 23

I think cecily might have it right...

Here is a link that might be useful: double quince flowers

    Bookmark   October 9, 2008 at 10:21AM
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Prettypetals_GA_7-8

My double flowering quince blooms are real close to the stem. Doesn't hang off like in the pics but it could be a different kind. The leaves kinda resemble some of my camellias but none of my camellias hang off like that in clusters. The bloom looks so pretty in your picture. Real curious myself to see what it ends up being. Good luck. Judy

    Bookmark   October 9, 2008 at 11:13AM
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donnaz5(Z5 NY)

the leaves look like an oleander to me, but the blossom didn't, so i googled double oleander just for kicks, and there are some doubles..see the link below...if it is oleander, just know that every part of an oleander is poisenous, just in case you have small children or pets...donna

Here is a link that might be useful: double oleander

    Bookmark   October 9, 2008 at 2:20PM
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catsrose(VA 6)

Look at the thorns, which I can't see in detail from the photo. Roses tend to have wide bases and often hooks. Quince have ice-picks. I'm guessing a quince, but my glasses are running on last year's eyes.

    Bookmark   October 9, 2008 at 8:26PM
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snasxs(7-8 VA)

Cats rose,

I can check for you. However I donÂt know what you mean by "ice-picks".

My guess is that it is some kind of relative of quince. However it is blooming now  later summer and early autumn ...

My question is: What is it?

    Bookmark   October 9, 2008 at 9:22PM
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anntn6b(z6b TN)

To prove that it's a member of the genus Rosa, the bases of each compound leaf should have paired stipules.

    Bookmark   October 9, 2008 at 10:44PM
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snasxs(7-8 VA)

Ann, as Cecily correctly observed, the shrub has single leaves.

    Bookmark   October 10, 2008 at 8:34AM
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anntn6b(z6b TN)

The problem with seeing some roses leaves from a distance is that it's not possible to see if the plant has dropped leaves from disease or (doesn't apply here) from rabbit or deer predation. Often this results in the terminal leaflet hanging on.
Does this plant have stipules?
That's the basic question.
If there are no stipules (they don't have to be as big as the ones in the photo below), then is isn't a rose, so your initial question would be answered.

Here is a link that might be useful: 3rd picture w big stipules on R. virginiana

    Bookmark   October 10, 2008 at 9:49AM
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snasxs(7-8 VA)

Ann,

The single leaves have a hint of stipules at the base, but not fully developed stipules.

Or I can say they partially have stipules and partially lack stipules.

I have asked someone, he says it might be considered a type quince by the gardeners. But it is a border line case. Plus, he says this is not created by hybridizing a quince and a rose. But it is a species, possibly from China or Japan. But he is not sure. I am trying to figure out the species name.

BTW, your R virginiana is soooo lovely! I must have it!

    Bookmark   October 10, 2008 at 1:49PM
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catsrose(VA 6)

Quince thorns are more like barberry thorns. I'm pretty sure it is a quince. My quince currently has several blooms. In fact, I've had a lot of things put on blooms this fall that shouldn't, including once-blooming roses.

    Bookmark   October 10, 2008 at 11:24PM
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snasxs(7-8 VA)

Cats Rose,

Did you notice the remarks from Pretty Petals - "My double flowering quince blooms are real close to the stem. Doesn't hang off like in the pics."

How about yours? Do you have such a rose-like arrangement of flowers?

    Bookmark   October 11, 2008 at 12:40AM
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Prettypetals_GA_7-8

Snasxs, My quince is putting on a few blooms too right now which it does every year. I was looking at the back bush leaves when I said they kinda remind me of camellias, sorry!! Real curious to see what it ends up being. You need to post us a picture next spring when you get the bush to looking like it should. Good luck, Judy

    Bookmark   October 11, 2008 at 11:49AM
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reg_pnw7(WA 7, sunset 4)

That's not a quince. The arrangement of the flowers on the stems is totally not-quince and very much rose-like.

But the leaves appear all wrong! hard to tell in these photos. We need closeups of the leaves, without the neighboring plants mixed in.

Not oleander either, the flowers don't sit like that on oleanders, and the growth habit is totally different. Bushy, with straight woody stems. And oleanders have long waxy opposite leaves, and they weep latexy or sticky sap when cut. Don't get that sap on your skin, oleanders are poisonous and the sap can make your heart race if you get a lot of it on your skin.

The overall growth habit is totally rose-like.

Quinces are in the rose family, and have stipules at the base of their single leaves, as I recall. The leaves sure look like quince, but the flowers and the growth habit do not.

I cannot say what it is! only what it isn't.

    Bookmark   October 11, 2008 at 1:18PM
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Maryl zone 7a

I'm looking at an Oleander in my neighbors yard and it's definitely not an Oleander. I can't tell too much from the photos why it's NOT a rose. Maybe the poster will post some more pictures of the leaves.

    Bookmark   October 11, 2008 at 2:59PM
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ocngypz

It looks like my Japanese Camellia. Though the foliage looks like it's been dropping due to temperature stress.

    Bookmark   October 11, 2008 at 7:55PM
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snasxs(7-8 VA)

Maryl, the leaves are single. You might have seen a whole branch (it is not a complex leaf). Look at the second picture.

Ocngypz, this is clearly not camellia. What cultivar of camellia do you have with clustered blooms from long and branching flowering stalks?

    Bookmark   October 11, 2008 at 8:17PM
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lesdvs9

You've got a nice clear 2nd pic, why not retake a first pic. The buds don't look right on this, not pointed.
Actually there is a rose shaped camellia.

    Bookmark   October 11, 2008 at 9:10PM
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snasxs(7-8 VA)

Hey lesdvs,

I agree that there is a rose-shaped camellia. But the key here is the arrangement of the flowers. The shape of the flower is not my concern.

What do you mean by "donÂt look right, not pointed". I donÂt get it.

    Bookmark   October 11, 2008 at 9:56PM
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petaloid(SoCal 10a/24)

The first photo is confusing to the eye.

After studying both photos, I believe the blooms belong to the plant on the left, which is difficult to see. It overlaps the plant on the right, which has shinier, smooth-edged slender leaves.

The second photo shows the separate plants more clearly. The brown-edged pot appears to hold the flowering plant in question.

    Bookmark   October 12, 2008 at 12:42AM
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snasxs(7-8 VA)

petaloid, correct.

    Bookmark   October 12, 2008 at 2:40AM
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Maryl zone 7a

I think many of us may be all guessed out with only the current pictures and information given. Can you supply any additional information such as how long have you had it, why are the leaves so sparse, what did the leaves look like when they fell (disease symptoms), where did you get this plant and where did they get it? Good luck identifying it, btw.

    Bookmark   October 12, 2008 at 1:07PM
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snasxs(7-8 VA)

Mary L,

The plant has no disease nor problem. It is in the process of going into winter dormancy.

I went on a vacation on and off for 3 months. So the plant is under watered. But I placed it in partial shade.

The lovely ever-green plant behind is the fragrant Daphne Odora.

    Bookmark   October 12, 2008 at 5:24PM
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snasxs(7-8 VA)

Okay everyone, here comes the detailed flowers and leaves:





It is such a huge amount of work to take the pictures and post them.

Now, you must tell me what it is!

    Bookmark   October 15, 2008 at 10:51AM
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snasxs(7-8 VA)

Need to mention that the later pictures are taken a couple weeks later. The flower is very close to naturally fading. The petals are falling off.

    Bookmark   October 20, 2008 at 12:52PM
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carla17(Z7 NC)

Tenacity here is mind blowing.

Carla

    Bookmark   October 20, 2008 at 7:20PM
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snasxs(7-8 VA)

No solid answer ...

    Bookmark   January 2, 2009 at 1:56AM
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wanttogarden(USDA 9b, Sunset 15, N. Calif.)

It is a Camilla; definitely not a rose. The close up pictures does not look like a rose at all, at least not to me.

FJ

    Bookmark   January 2, 2009 at 2:59AM
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ledaanne

It may be a flowering pomegranate.

    Bookmark   January 2, 2009 at 10:34AM
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olga_6b

No, not pomegranate. Leaves and flower are wrong for pomegranate.
Looks like Camellia to me.
Olga

Here is a link that might be useful: Camellia

    Bookmark   January 2, 2009 at 10:58AM
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lovemyshovel(z7)

Some questions:
--Where did you obtain this plant?
--How long have you had it?
--Have you always kept it where it is, near that window?
Thanks

    Bookmark   January 2, 2009 at 11:16AM
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the_dark_lady(z7 Amelia VA)

I am not sure this is a Camellia - look at the buds (completely different from the typical Camellia), also clustering is rather unusual.
I hope the mystery is solved - the plant looks very interesting :)
Marina

    Bookmark   January 2, 2009 at 12:31PM
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jerijen(Zone 10)

Well, 'taint a rose, but neither does it look like any camellia I've seen,
and camellias were one of my grandma's faves, so I grew up with 'em.
I don't think that's even a Sassanqua Camellia.

So, I don't know what it is, but it's sure neat!

Jeri

    Bookmark   January 2, 2009 at 1:58PM
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snasxs(7-8 VA)

The close-up flower could be misleading. It is not a fully opened flower. It is an already faded, close-to be finished, flower. I took the second set of pictures late. If you recall how a rose look like right before it falls apart  In their prime time, the flowers look like normal rose.

    Bookmark   January 2, 2009 at 5:47PM
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jackie_o(zone 5/6)

Check out this pic of Bluestone's quince "CHAENOMELES speciosa Iwai Nishiki"

Here is a link that might be useful: CHAENOMELES speciosa Iwai Nishiki

    Bookmark   January 3, 2009 at 9:58AM
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pocajun(z9aLa)

Thats close Jackie but CHAENOMELES speciosa Iwai Nishiki blooms early spring to late Spring and this has flowers in October and the reproductive parts are different. Are there any flowering Quinces which bloom in the Fall? Seems like everyone knows what its not and not what it is. LOL

Patrick

    Bookmark   January 3, 2009 at 10:58AM
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jackie_o(zone 5/6)

Patrick that's what I get for skimming LOL LOL! (note to self, read the text, don't just look at the pretty pictures)

Never mind...

: )

    Bookmark   January 3, 2009 at 11:06AM
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Prettypetals_GA_7-8

My double peach quince put out a few blooms this fall but mine are on the stem not hanging like in the pictures. Still would love to know what this baby is. Judy

    Bookmark   January 3, 2009 at 12:14PM
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