23,594 Garden Web Discussions | Vegetable Gardening

This is an old question. However, I want to clarify a bit for folks who are new to growing with plastic mulch in large sheets. Dennis explianed it well. I'lI just add my four cents.

Which is way too much.

So here's the short version

1- Dennis is right and use big sheets

2- make round holes, they tear less.

3- pick up and store plastic away from winter UV

4- don't worry about the weeds and grass. do not till, add compost only at the holes, before putting down the plastic. Water only until the plants are established. A week or 2. No irrigation needed. Ever. Well, maybe in the SW.

5- soil is 5° cooler under black plastic in the summer (Rodale c.1985).

6- Relax,

until Mid August then protect from fifty-five°

I'm not kidding!

The long version.

I have been raising melons, tomatoes, eggplant, peppers and more, using six mil or thicker black plastic since the nineteen seventies. My parents started with ten mil (I think), which I inherited and it lasted eight years of leaving it out year round. The winter UV finally killed iit.

My first suggestion is that you roll it up and store it in a dark place. I get six years or more out of six mil black.

Pre-drilling with inch holes is a great idea and I'll try it at about one foot intervals. I just poke holes in puddles when they appear. His nail on a broomstick in a better idea than my method of using whatever is at hand. Why?

Because plastic tears in a line. If you make a longitudinal cut, instead of a round hole or puncture, in later years it will tear more easily.

So, do not make your planting holes with an "x". Make them round with scissors, or as I do. I cut both ends of a can, around four to five in diam, hold it with vise grips and heat the other end with a propane torch. Take a deep breath and psst, cut a nice round, sealed hole and put the circle in a trash bsg . For melons I use six foot diagonal spacing. Less for tomatoes, even less for peppers, eggplant, basil, etc. Plan well, because that's the configuration for years to come. I often use twenty by twenty sheets so I could just turn it each year for crop rotation. You might just slide it down the length of the garden, if north south orientation augers against turning the layout

Now, its about time to plant. Clear plastic will heat up your ground before you plant. Black plastic will not. Clear plastic solarization is thought by some to disturb/ destroy the beneficial biota of you topsoil. So heat with caution and read more to find your way. That aside: in spite of the wind, lay the black plastic on the ground...no need to weed or cultivate. Drive a short stake into the center of each hole. Pick up the plastic and prepare the area at each stake as you wish. I try to remove a half bushel or more of soil to my compost and fill each hole with a compost soil mix. Replace the plastic. Batten down the edges with soil, stones boards, etc. Plant and water individually, as needed for a week or two.

Then forget about it. You may need to weed three inches on all sides of each plant. You will not need irrigation. You have stopped evaporation. The ground in most regions is wet when you plant. It will stay perfectly moist all summer. I have had a few six week periods of eighty to a hundred degrees and no rain w/o water stress. Rodale tested mulches sometime in the eighties and determined that six mil black plastic kept the soil five degrees cooler than bare soil.

For me the major problem with melon production is that i crowd them. So stepping on the vines as I pick and some mildew. I do not lift the melons off the plastic, but puncture a puddle occupied by a melon. Bigger still is that after over thirty years, I cannot tell if a watermelon is ripe.

Beware the heartbreak of late collapse in canteloupes! Fifty-five degrees will make you cry in the August dawn. Get some cover material and get out there on that cool evening, when the clouds go away. A few nights later,you can relax until fall. That's for Western Oregon, Wash, Penna, and the garden state. In NH prepare to keep the patch above fifty- five.

Sorry about the length... I just love eating melons!

Whoops! Dennis said make eigth inch holes. Larger holes will give you spectacular individual weeds

Agree that with clovers you need to mow well and close, then till it all in at least a month before planting.

I have mowed off and tilled part of garden for early crops and tilled more as I needed space. this creates more matter to till under. if it is really tall you could mow off and let regrow .

Cool. What part of AZ are you in, Azcanner? Arizona has many diverse areas between the desert and the mountains.

Phoenix metro (salt river valley). Some things can grow year round here (broccoli, carrots, onions, garlic, beets,...)

It occurs to me that one good reason to transplant is cutworms, which are a problem for me. Now, if I transplant, the plant is *right there*, so I know exactly where to spread my DE or Sevin dust. If I put in seeds, and if I don't mark exactly where those seeds were put in, and where I expect them to come up, I can't do responsible cutworm management. They'll get the seedlings as they come up, probably before I even see them come up. I suppose I could dust the whole seedbed, but that's a bigger proposition.

I suspect that transplantation does do some root damage, but I guess one just has to be careful. I never direct seed my squash and melons, and they always do fine. The best strategy for me is to transplant, but while the containered plants are still quite small.

You are about 3 weeks too early...I live in the NW corner of Alabama, and wouldn't even think of planting seeds for squash earlier than mid-April. For you, I would sow seeds on the first of April, and things should turn out quite well....

Thanks for the info . Im trying to get it rite the first year ive been growing for years but a new earea and new climate means as usual listen to the local gardeners . So thanks water be fine in quality gardening soil. Ill get a test kit for the native soil .i m at a loss trying to figure out why my dad and the neighbor both had failed crops last season? My father cant understand the value of composting he says what am i paying for this big trash can for ?") So mg or what ever is on sale and Soluble normaly works for him. Leading me to suspect a ph or toxicity problem .other than that theres the larva in the root systems of the now dead fruit trees . Beatles what ever. Guess i should start a thread of my own .carl garden thanks again hava great day

Hi everyone. I also live in the CA HD - Apple Valley to be exact. Have been growing up here for about 10 years, starting with growing in large pots to the 5 raised beds I have now. I agree that our soil (and some you can buy) isn't the best. I have purchased "garden soil" from a place up here called the Rock Yard (not sure if they are still in business though), mixed in chicken manure and growmulch and have had great success. Last year I harvested 3 kinds of tomatoes, 4 kinds of peppers, zucchini, Asian eggplant, cucumbers, basil, butternut squash, snow peas, green beans and over the winter, chard, lettuces and spinach (with a plastic tent covering on cold nights).

My problem today is - I am turning my garden soil in anticipation of spring planting and in one of my planters, I am turning up whitish light gray looking soil clusters. Not really sure it is soil, maybe larvae of some insect. If so, they are really tiny. Anyone have any ideas?

As Davef1 mentioned, cross pollination could cause it, but highly dountful, imo.

Run by us how you saved the seeds... when I save bell peppers seeds, I pull ripe pods. Within a day or 2, I cut the flesh away, leaving the seeds attached to the placenta and stem. I then just let the seed mass dry out for a week or so on a plate. I then dislodge all the seeds on the plate and let them dry out for about another week. Put in envelopes, store in a cool, dry, dark place.

Other varieties, I may just scoop out the the placenta and seeds and do the same as above. Superhots, I'll just split in half and do the same as above.

Btw, contrary to popular belief, one doesn't have to wait for a pepper to FULLY turn color to harvest seeds. If a pod is STARTING to turn color, the pod is fully mature and seed development is finished. In other words, "mature" comes long before fully "ripe."

Kevin

Thanks everybody! I know about seed expiration date and usually just try couple of seeds about a month before actual seeding date for germination, but hot pepper doesn't store well for me more then 3 years , even if kept refrigerated - they may germinate, but seedling are not as strong as from fresh seeds. I usually do not take seeds out of the pods at all for hot pepper - they dry very well at room temp natural way and seeds always were fine for me, but this year. So I do suspect the particular type I bought and hybridization.

It depends on what you are growing. I start onions in the 72s and never have to move them until it's time to transplant, but broad-leafed plants need more space above and below ground.

72 cells is pretty big, you can get market packs that size in a 1206 tray (12 packs per tray, 6 cells per pack for 72 total cells in the 1020 tray). I've seen plug flats of onions sold in 200 cell trays. My experience has been that plug flats are more of a personal choice rather than a necessity of the plant. The use of plug flats minimizes the footprint of the seedlings in the cool months when you start them. You would only need to heat/light a much smaller space if you use plug flats vs starting seeds in their final size pot. You do need to transplant into larger cells though so that the growth of the plant is not stunted in the smaller cells.

For example, I currently have tomatoes in a 288 cell flat. That same number of tomatoes would take 12 2401 flats or 16 1801 flats, which will be their final sizes before I plant out or sell them. Right now it would be challenging for me to support that however by the time they get transplanted to bigger celled trays it will be warm enough to put them in the unheated greenhouse I have.

I did stumble across a Transplant Action Plan with a table on page 3 that states when to transplant various crops and to what size containers to use. That should give you a decent starting point. Also here is an article on The Effect of Container Size as it pertains to various crops, lots of useful info in there.

I was thinking maybe peach, but definitely a tree I would think.

Perhaps it's a pecan?

Rodney

Thanks Dave! Yeah, my wife has to sometimes remind me that gardening is supposed to be relaxing........ LOL Planting later is certainly another thing I'll try this season, I've yet to start my seeds for that reason.... Avoiding ideal EB conditions as much as possible might help.. .. Worth a try...

OBTW Dave......... You still da man! ;)

I got so annoyed with the disease and pathetic tomato plants that I stopped growing them for a couple of years! I just started growing them again last year. I had a bumper crop. I really don't like using any chemicals on the garden. I do use either red or black plastic (as suggested above.) I do also prune the bottom stems so none of them are touching the ground.

Hahaha! I totally missed that...and I have my auto-correct turned off (maybe I should turn it back on...)! I did mean on the deck. I used just regular potting mix in my planter box. I bought 4 little plants (the pots were probably 2" square) and I grew them on the deck because the little garden patch I have is too shady for zukes.

Thank you all for the suggestions...I definitely have a better idea of what to do this year. And if all else fails, there's always the farmer's market!

I grew zucchini in 5 gallon paint buckets I bought at a big box store. I just drilled drainage holes in the bottom of the buckets. I planted 1 plant per bucket. I still have shredded zucchini from the summer in the freezer (I should really use that up already!)

The post being brought back up is fine. What I meant in my previous comment was that if a question is posted on this forum, it's usually answered within a day and usually even within the hour. So it's odd, or rather it's kinda inconceivable to me, that back in 2011 this post could have gone unanswered or have been skipped over when the answer was a simple one.

Rodney

Where were YOU rodney? ;)

As for me, The thread was posted on July 28, 2011... I was probably out covering MY bells with some shade cloth to prevent them from getting sunscald. :P

Kevin

Thanks Dave for mentioning the potting mix--I do make sure I use blends with no added fert so that I can control. It would make a huge difference to the equation.

Thank you all for your help. I'll have to head over to my garden store this weekend and take a look at the bag for potting mix that I used. Next year I'll put my setup in the basement where it's cooler. So much more complicated than I thought. I guess I have to learn sometime though if I want to keep gardening :)

I usually grow five or six Diva cucumber plants in a 25-gallon tub and get a LOT of cucumbers that are never bitter. I picked Divas because they were reputed to have less of the compound that causes bitterness, and therefore were less attractive to cucumber beetles. I have since learned that many experienced gardeners believe cultural practices -- like uneven watering -- play a bigger role in causing bitterness. I do know that in the hottest part of summer, I have to water my cucumbers every day. It is harder to keep a 5-gallon bucket well watered than a 25-gallon container.

Cucumbers- best for non-bitterness?

Thanks for some feedback guys/gals.

Lorabell: WHat ORGANIC ferts are you putting in your containers? I've thrown cottonseed, bone,and kelp meals in my wine barrels with potting mix, compost and perlite before, but I still feel they need synthetics throughout the season. What are you fert schedules with just organics?

Dave: So, maybe 2 vining plants in a 15 gal might do?

Thanks ohiofem...Ain't that the truth regarding moisture retention in a large container. It's amazing how long I can go without watering my barrels.

Kevin

Sorry! I was answering two posts at once. Charlieboring had cut the tops of his leeks.

The Pic is from Febuary, I try to do year round gardening which is possible in 7b/8a thank goodness. I have four 4x4 boxes with lettices/kales/mustards, that we have been harvesting since December. Plus overwinter/store in ground potatoes and turnips. I just noticed some of the winter greens are flowering out which is good as I keep the seeds for planting in Aug/Sept. Ive started a new crop of kales, lettices, etc for next months harvest, have peas in ground, just put in potatoes, beats, carrots, Everything else is either started inside, tomatoes, peppers, gingers, tumeric, eggplants, and the rest goes direct in ground mid next month. Spring is here!