23,948 Garden Web Discussions | Vegetable Gardening

You did not waste my time. My apologies. I thought that you were asking a question that you already knew the answer to or that you could have easily searched for.

Any contributions that I have made here are very miniscule. There are many here who can answer very technical questions if they choose to.

I may have misunderstood some of your comments because of translation problems. If this is the case, your english is very good. Your username combines the word "troll" which would closely mean one who wishes to cause harm, with "king" that would mean the leader - your username would mean that you were the leader of those who wished to harm or at least create mischief.

It is not necessary to answer questions before you ask them. It is just asked that you do a search to see if a similar question has been answered.

What do you want to know? How to grow allium cepa from seed? How to grow onions for seed? Different types of edible allium to grow in the garden?

I can help. Sometimes if you are looking for something very specific it is hard to find the right terms.

The biggest difference between Garlic and Onion is the fact that the Onion bulb is mostly above ground.

From digdirt.... "Now if growing in a greenhouse, yes that info is available because gh growers can control the air temps inside the structure."........... Yea I was thinking about ways to have an ideal air temp when growing indoors and in a greenhouse from sprout to transplanting time to see if they grow healthier and better before transplant time....I currently have lists of a general idea of the height in the greenhouse to put the plants ....low to the ground for cold and higher up for hot. Thank you for the response digdirt and now thanks to you I am looking up soil temp control :). To Slimy_Okra...thanks for the temps!

Thanks theforgottenone for this message...
"Unless you're able to manipulate the temperature of the air and keep it consistent at all times there is really no reason to aim for an "ideal" anything. It's just not possible. Especially outside. Even day and night temperatures can fluctuate 20 or more degrees. So what's "ideal" during the day won't be "ideal" at night. You can influence air temps to an extent by growing under cover when it's chilly and by using shade cloth when it's warm (somewhat) but for the most part you're at the mercy of Mother Nature. As long as a crop is withing the range of low temp and high temp they will grow just fine."...
I sort of have a response to this....My greenhouse has about 7 to 8 different heights and I am trying to order my plants by temperature. .I was thinking about your response and I think the reason why I am looking for an ideal temp is because I am thinking about having the veggies at the correct height in order to have an ideal temp when the sun is out in the day. I was thinking this would maximize growing. Also for the nighttime thing I have a clear water aquirium and a ton of clear used milk bottles and soda bottles on the upper part of the green house where it gets above 100F...then at night when the heat stored in the water dissipates I have a minifan that blows the dissipated air down a vent into bricks on the floor of the greenhouse which keeps the temperatures much higher at the night. I am going to try a ton of science experiments...just don't know what they are yet :)

I guess right now if nothing else then I would like a confirmation that the order am putting the veggies in from to coldest to hottest loving plants is accurate (or close to accurate)

Here is the order again(and also on my flag cold-to-hot measurement picture)....
Coldest ….
1. Kale(pretty sure kale is one of the coldest if not the coldest)....I have this as a starting point in the center of the blue cross in the hot red Norwegian flag.......then it goes to the all blue, cold Greek flag starting with Spinach
2. Spinach(yellow and orange “Green Hornet” symbol...yellow and orange due to spinach goes well with high acidity tropical fruits in green smoothies...Green Hornet symbol is a double K...meaning high vitamin K content....which leafy greens have)
3. Leeks....I know that Leeks are very cold hardy but I am not sure if I should put leeks at the number 3 cold since leeks seem to have a large temperature range and the ideal soil and air temp may put leeks higher on this list....maybe somewhere from 4 to 6...idk(green and blue heart symbol.....heart for the allium family...as garlic is heart and soul of culinary science....I don't know if I got this right but for some reason I associated leeks with high water content and that's why I have the green and blue....do growing leeks like a lot of water?)
4. Turnip....Another large temperature range yet cold hardy veggie so I am not sure if number 4 would be the best place for Turnips( V for brassica family...V shape cause Kale is a brassica and has rigid V like edges(except for dinosaur kale).....symbol is red and white because Turnips are white and purplish-red)
5. Radish....From what I have researched I think radish has the largest temperature range yet..(Half of a triangle for taproots....red symbol due to the color of the radish....)
6. Head Lettuce(I have buttercrunch)...from what I have research this veggie seems to be the logical next one in order (single K for less vitemin K content but still a leafy green....yellow and green color....yellow for the color of butter)
7. Swiss Chard....next one in line I think?....(Double “green arrow” K...red and white..the color of the swiss flag)
8. Arugula....I really don't know about arugula haven't found much temp info on arugula....(single K for less vit K....black and green....black for pepper since arugula has a peppery flavor to it)
9. Romaine Lettuce....number 9 maybe? ….(single K for less vit K....red and yellow...the color of the Roman flag)
10. Parsley....or Peas or Broccoli or Brussel Sprouts idk...haven't done much herb temperature research yet...(H for low temp herbs....orange and green color...orange because I use parsley on my orange salmon recipe)
11. Cilantro...or Peas or Broccoli or Brussel Sprouts idk..haven't done much herb temperature research yet...(H for low temp herbs...white and red...the color of salsa! Which cilantro is good in)
12. Broccoli...or Brussel Sprouts or Peas?...(V for Brassicas....yellow and green symbol..reason: When brocolli flowers, it's yellow)
13. Brussel Sprouts? (V for Brassicas....yellow and blue symbol..reason: the flag color of Brussels city is yellow and blue)
14. Peas?....(half moon for peas.....half moon all green...cause it looks like a fricken pea...look at the sunglasses)
15. Dill?....put this next since dill is a large temperature range herb....(double H for warm and hot temperature herbs....green and white....the color of pickles + the color of most pickle lids(white))
16. Basil...next just because I have no idea the order basill should be in...(single H...red and green...red due to basil being a good pizza sauce addition.)
17. Thyme...next just because I have no idea the order basill should be in...(single H...black and white...image of a black hole which has TIME altering properties)
18. Oregano....warmer weather herb....double H for warm and hot temperature herbs...red and green: red because oregano is a good pizza sauce addition)
19. Tomato.....(Circle symbol for fruits- red filled in circle with with white background looks like a slicing tomato))
20. Cherry Tomato....(Circle symbol for fruits �" purple and red circular symbol...Purple is the color of the stem of a cherry tomato
21. cucumber?.........or beans?...not sure which one requires hotter avg. temps(double Circle symbol for elongated fruits....double circle with Green outer shell + white inner shell representative of colors of cucumber.)
22. beans? Or cucumber...not sure which one requires hotter avg. temps(Crescent moon for beans, nuts,a nd seeds....Green with white background looks like a bean)
23. Peppers(Bell, then jalapeno, then serrano, then cayenne, then habenero)(X, XX, XXX symbols representation for peppers...green single X for bell pepper(color of bell pepper)...green double X for jalapaneo(color of jalapeno)...and so on)
24. Okra?....or melons?....not sure which one...according to slimy okra...this should be last..but other sources have some melons that require hotter temps than Okra(green star for color and shape of Okra)...
25. Canteloupe.....or Okra... according to slimy okra...this should be 2nd to last (Circle symbol for fruits...white inner shell + orange outer shell looks like cantelope)
26. Watermelon.....(circle symbol for fruits........ green outer shell + red inner shell looks like water melon)

???....Cauliflower....not in there yet...but I think it would somewhere between 13- brussel sprouts and 19.. cherry tomatoes)

Well thanks for all the advice and help everyone and if you have any temp or order info...or any other info...message back!!

So now we are talking about growing seedlings and transplants in a greenhouse for later transplanting to an outdoor garden, correct?

If so then that is a whole different discussion and I have to say based on over 50 years in the greenhouse and nursery business that you are WWAAAYY over-complicating the process.

First because you cannot control the air temps in a greenhouse to the various degrees you are looking for and second, because it sure isn't necessary.

What you can do in a greenhouse is keep it cooler or warmer than it is outside. However even with the most expensive, perfect, fully automated systems you cannot create 50 degree pockets in one corner or on one shelf while also maintaining 75 degrees in another corner or shelf. And even if it were possible the temps in those pockets wouldn't remain stable but would fluctuate hourly.

For air temps, the best you can do with all the proper equipment is create an environment within the GH that ranges no lower than 45 and no higher than 65. And that is the ideal GH air temp range for all vegetable and flower seedlings and for everything else that might be growing in there except for well-established tropical plants.

Don't make the process more complex than it needs to be. Trying to do so only discourages you and creates numerous additional problems for the plants.

Dave

I get my soil mix from the landfill (certified organic), then add my own compost spring or fall.
I'm checking into a neighbor who raises rabbits for some poop! Nancy

Carol,
The mixture you speak of is called Mel's Mix. It works, but depending on the size of your bed, can get very expensive. I put in several new raised beds this year and I ordered a 40% sand 60% compost mixture in bulk for a fraction of the price of Mel's Mix. All I added was some chicken and cow manure and some cotton burr compost for extra nutrients and nitrogen from the manure. So far everything is growing great!

I was just reading up on various things electric fence, and I think the answer about your tiny bunnies is that their light weight makes them not make good contact with the ground. At least that's what my Premier catalog seems to say. Good thing there's time to replant!

I had the same problem with the bunnies. The hot fence didn',t do the trick for the bunnies but it kept the racoons out. I used two foot chicken wire about 5-6 inches outside of the hot wire and it worked perfect. Make sure the chicken wire does not come in contact with the hot wire or it will short it out. It was so nice not to have my
new plants eaten. Good Luck

Your photo

Should work ok although lattice isn't one of the best supports as it tends to easily pop the staples from the weight. Metal fencing would work better.

Dave

I am planting my tomatoes along a 4 foot wire fence I put up last year for my peas to vine up. I am not quite sure how I am going to attach them but I will figure it out.

Is there something wrong with your native soil that you want to make raised beds instead of using the soil you have? From what you describe, it sounds like a huge expense of sand/compost/loam mix to fill such a big bed (not to mention the wood to build it with). And from what we usually hear on these forums, the stuff they sell for folks to fill raised beds with is often inferior to plain old native soil.

Is there a reason not to just mix some composted material (whatever you can find -- manure, etc.) in with your native soil?

I grow everything in native soil amended with as much organic matter as I can get my hands on, composted and then added either on the surface or dug in when the beds are new. As others have said, unless your soil is pure rock or has problems with toxicity, I wouldn't go to the expense of bringing in topsoil and definitely not sand. In the Maine you will want to add lime or wood ashes when you dig in amendments to raise the pH a bit since we tend to have acidic soil. Brought in topsoil will have the same issue, however, and will not necessarily be any better than what you already have.

Corn, peas, beans, radish, carrots, spinach, and potatoes are all typically direct seeded here. I presprout my pea seeds (soak 12-24 hours, drain, leave covered for 824 hours and then plant outside as soon as the soil is thawed and dry enough to work. Potatoes I chit (let sprout green for 2-3 weeks) and also plant outside under just a couple of inches of soil as soon as the soil is dry enough to work. I put soil around the stems just up to under the leaves as they grow. Radish and spinach also will sprout as soon as the soil is dry enough to work. Beans and corn need warm soil. Johnny's Select Seeds (Albion, ME) has charts of sprouting soil temperatures for different kinds of veggies you can check. I don't grow corn any more as the critters always harvest it just before I would.

Wow wasn't expecting so many replies. All the info is very helpful thank you everyone. I think I'm going to nix the weed block, leave the chicken wire and I'll just cover the bottom of the bed with yard waste leftover from the fall (leaves, sticks, twigs, grass clippings) before it gets filled so the worms can work their way in (and for extra compost).

I have always just used a combination of native soil and composted organic matter such as manure to fill raised beds. Mulching has kept the weeds from sprouting from any seeds that were in the soil. If you aren't going to use your native soil, I'd at least use a spading fork to loosen it and perhaps to turn in a bit of organic matter before putting down your wire mesh and adding the raised beds with amendments. That will create a less abrupt transition and I expect improve water movement and root transitions. I don't think I would use chicken wire for the mesh, however, since the two sizes sold around here have holes large enough to let in voles and it breaks down quite quickly. I'd use hardware cloth instead.

No, can't open the windows yet! It may be officially spring, but it definitely doesn't feel like it! I potted up 5 tomatoes on the same day, and they are doing fine--exposed to the same conditions, same potting mix, etc.
I know there's still plenty of time to restart, so no worries. I just like to learn from my mistakes, and identify what's going on...never seen anything like this.

BINGO " .... South Facing Window .... " == Sun burn.

Tou might as well remove those leaves since the are not going to make a positive contribution.

I started Asparagus from seedlings rather than crown roots and it took me a good 4 years before they started to thicken a little, then actually 5 years before they were as fat as I was expecting. I didn't do anything but keep adding compost and ground up leaves. I also let mine fern every year.

I've only used home made compost on mine and they are thick as my thumb for the most part.And plentiful! From a 4x8 bed, the 3 of us eat gus about 2x per week.
I do have clay soil, so possibly more nutrients than some.
Nancy

How are they connected on the ends? Unless they aren't well drilled (or nailed) in, and unless the wood is really thin, you won't have to worry about the wood bowing when you add the soil. Longer term, the boards can bow from getting wet, changes in temperature, etc.

If it's not too late, I would really recommend trying to incorporate some of the clay into your beds. Clay has a poor structure and is acidic, but it has lots of nutrients and good qualities that are often overlooked. You just need to mix it with soil amendments like compost, be patient, and watch it become awesome over the years. You have to take a long term view with it. (And I am saying this from experience. You could make pottery with what I have in my yard.)

Go to the big box store and ask them for some sort of bracket to keep the boxes from bowing or separating.
Fill with garden mix from the land fill (or wherever you can get it) the worms will bring the clay up into your boxes! Nancy

I was just reading a bit about this - You want the tubes of straw vertical so that water will run through them.

Here is a link that might be useful: Straw Bale Gardens

I'm in a bit of a pickle then. The tubes of straw on my bales are on the string sides, so one side of strings would have to be in contact with the ground in order for the tube openings to be up. What would you all recommend I do?

In some climates beans are regularly transplanted. If you have cool springs like us it isn't warm enough for beans to germinate until well into early Summer. So I start some beans early in my glazed porch. Then again some more a few weeks later and finally some direct outside. This means that the beans are a range of ages and we don't get a glut coming all at once.

My comment about beans sprouting quickly was made assuming that they are being planted in warm soil and that fairly fresh seed was being used (as in 1 to 3 years old).

Rodney