23,948 Garden Web Discussions | Vegetable Gardening

Galinas,

You are in zone 10, i dont want to hear it! Haha! 15 f outside is our high on some days! Try -10 out!

Hm) thank you for pointing me on the zone issue - I am actually in zone 5B)

Haask since you seem to be well read on the subject, what is your opinion about the allopathic qualities of other types of oak trees?

I live on an acre with about 25 red and white oak trees (and many other species). In my situation, I have very little choice as to where I place the garden. The closest point of the garden is around 20 feet south of the Red Oak. The Oak is so tall, that the garden is in full sun all day long.

My opinion on the Red Oak is that it is seems much less potent than a black walnut. The garden can be managed, by simply keeping the roots away from the vegetable plants.

That's basically my experience. I have no other experience with any other types of oaks. From my research, I'm not sure if I even remember any other oak being an issue.

Yes, I figured I was being generous with 2-3 feet spacing. Of course, that corresponds to a root ball diameter of 1-1.5 feet. I've heard that, at least grown from seed, tomatoes have a pretty stout tap-root, which is what I think I'm seeing in your picture.

Seysonn, just curious, do you plant yours deeply? It looks like the original rootball on the bottom and the new roots that filled in from the stem after planting towards the top.

If that's the case, your photo is also a great example of why you should plant them deep to get all those roots. :)

NoNoNo! #1 gophers will chew right through CW if not squeeze through! #2Voles will just saunter through like it was a hallway to the vege palace! #3 They will rot out in a couple of years. Do you want to dig out ALL of that dirt just to do it all again?
Do it right the first time and use hardware (or gopher) cloth! It is worth the extra $! Our origional 4 beds have not failed in13 and 10 years. We had a shovel go through accidentally in one bed, but were able to dig down and repair the tear in the wire.
All those tiny rhodents can squeeze themselves down to about the size of a fat thumb.Sorry I was so adament! LOL I hate gophers! LOL Nancy

NoNoNo! #1 gophers will chew right through CW if not squeeze through! #2Voles will just saunter through like it was a hallway to the vege palace! #3 They will rot out in a couple of years. Do you want to dig out ALL of that dirt just to do it all again?
Do it right the first time and use hardware (or gopher) cloth! It is worth the extra $! Our origional 4 beds have not failed in13 and 10 years. We had a shovel go through accidentally in one bed, but were able to dig down and repair the tear in the wire.
All those tiny rhodents can squeeze themselves down to about the size of a fat thumb.Sorry I was so adament! LOL I hate gophers! LOL Nancy

"they like stop developing, and sit there for 2-3 weeks with almost no visible development, some of them got a very small true leave, that doesn't grow. After that they start to get dry from the border of the leaves and finally just dry out."

I had an aphid infestation last year and it did just that. The sprouts with cotyledon leaves just sat there for weeks, kind of deformed looking, with very small leaves. I finally examined the little month old sprouts, they had dozens of small aphids tapping the stem for nutrients. If not, Perhaps damp off?

Thank you both! I think the word "suffocated" will be exact word! I remembered what i did different last two years. I red in Vegetable garden guide online that cabbages like very firm soil. So I thought it is applicable to the seedlings as well. So I compacted the mix in the pot a little, before I planted the seeds. And I didn't do this first year, as I didn't know the fact the cabbage likes firm soil). So sometimes, no knowledge is better, when you follow the common sense. Fortunately, the spring is so slow this year, I can plant them again and will not be too late to plant them out when they ready.

In a couple hours since I've posted, both of the smaller plants are back to normal. Like nothing happened.

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Very interesting. This outright rules out any root problem. IMO any root problem is no/cannot be reversible.

Wilting like what I see in the picture, can be due to TWO things:

___ extreme thirst'
___ extreme heat/sun

In both above cases, plant will perk up after watering and after the source of heat/sun has gone.

You say you water them every other day. But is it possible that you forgot watering for much longer than that ? OR maybe it is not just enough.

It happens to me all the time. Just a week ago some of my tomato seedlings were wilting to the point of dying: THE CAUSE: thirst. After watering, they perked up but the lower leaves did not recover.

Sure, soil less medium is better but I have grown all kinds of things in pots filled with garden soil.
The problem with compaction and root bounding is that the pot cannot hold enough moisture for a long time (maybe not for one day), in the dog days of summer. Probably you have summer like weather in Florida right now ?

THE BOTTOM LINE SOLUTION (imo)
re pot them with soil less potting mix into a bigger pot.

Hope all this is worth couple of pennies. But I am not asking for anything. hehe

No, they don't usually (right away) but it can happen. If some contaminated sand got mixed into the container mix, for example, or if the containers sit without any added fertility for a long while they will eventually invade.

Fertility and crop rotation is what stops predatory nematodes, and both of those are hard to maintain long-term in containers.

My grandmother said that the plant had five leaves that were spread apart, like spreading apart your fingers and thumb.
My impression is that she meant a plant that was low to the ground.

My Dad gathered ginseng after he retired and he was able to walk the woods in south central Kentucky in what we called the knob land. I went with him once. He knew where all the patches were and the land owners didn't seem to mind. He would only go when he knew the berries were ripe.The red stands out in the woods on the 6" to 10" plants and he could spot them from a distance.
He would only dig large roots when the plant had more than 4 leaves and never a young plant.. He would also scatter the seed. A mature root looks like a human figure, head, arms and legs. Thus, five fingers. He said it took many years for a 5 prong root to grow.
He sold his but only made a few dollars as the roots have to be very dry and takes a lot to make a few ounces. He just enjoyed being in the woods.
He did try to grow some from root and seed but they never did anything. The best I remember, they grew on the north hillside in dense shade.

I did you demin water in the testing
& used this kit:Mosser Lee Soil Master Soil Testing Kit. I'll check w/ the county and see what I need to do to get the soil tested.
Thanks

Most vegetables are pretty adaptable to a range of pH, certainly anything between 6 and 7 will be fine for most of what you grow but it is nice to have the confidence of knowledge and your cooperative extension will do a quick pH test for a modest fee. If your results are similar you can be more confidant of your own measurements in the future.

I use a Cornell kit that allows me to come within a decimal point or two of what the best lab will verify which is all that is needed for practical purposes.

Your cooperative extension will also provide at least a source for testing your soil at a lab that will write a "prescription" for home vegetable production which will clarify the balance of nutrients you should be adding.

I believe it is impossible that your soil does not have measurable amounts of N, P and K or no plants could survive in it. I've had literally hundreds of different soils tested and while any of these nutrients may be at low levels, they are always there.

Your plants are what are called "leggy". Search that term and find all sorts of info. The stems are too weak to support the heads and it is caused by far too little light as others have said.

Many of the other plants in your photo are also far too leggy. They just aren't as obvious. Window light is never enough. Even greenhouses use supplemental lighting this time of year.

Check out the Growing from Seed forum here for all kinds of info.

Dave

Great information, thanks everyone!

These days, the calendar method is becoming less reliable. We're running 10 degrees below normal this month.

I'm particularly concerned with brassicas, the possibility of failure due to unseasonably cold conditions at setting out.

particularly concerned with brassicas, the possibility of failure due to unseasonably cold conditions at setting out.

They are a difficult balancing act - out soon enough to beat the heat but not so soon the cold gets them. But the threat to them is more air temps than soil temps. So the best solution is out early as possible but under row cover for protection.

Dave

PS: I agree - the calendar is the least reliable timing method.