23,594 Garden Web Discussions | Vegetable Gardening

Growing in cool weather helps with the sweet taste over bitter.

Could it be turnip greens? In my picture I have some mustard (right) growing next to the turnips. The mustard leaves are much smoother. But it could be the specific type of cultivar. Turnip greens are darker green, and rougher leaves.

All very interesting ideas. The weather just turned very cold so time will tell now. If I ever catch the thief and solve the mystery, I'll post it here. Thanks for the input.

Can you put a trap out for the mice?

New growth emerges a paler green than the older leaves and becomes darker over time. It is normal. You run the risk of becoming the new gardener who kills with too much attention. :) The tomato plant looks very happy.

Lol....

I too feel that way. You guys on the GW forum have really taught me a lot. Thanks a lot for that.

Btw, I also learn as I ask too many questions. So part of the credit goes to me as well ;-)

If the seeds are germinating, then the problem can't be attributed to the seeds. Peppers take longer to germinate and they grow slower than most other vegetable seedlings but they don't take this long (once sprouted). The problems have to be environmental.

Lighting. If the CFL's you're using are the same that I have in my house, then I don't think they are strong enough/bright enough to grow decent seedlings. Just my opinion. And when growing under lights, you want the light as close as possible to the leaves without burning them. I use a 4-foot flourenscent shop light (it has two bulbs) to start seeds in Spring and the leaves can actually touch the bulbs and they won't burn (disclaimer: it's not good to let them touch it). Moving the bulbs away from the plants results in weak, leggy plants.

Growing media. What type of potting soil are you using? And what are the main ingredients in it? From the picture it looks heavy. And from another of your posts, the fact that it gets crusty on top seems like it has a lot of peat in it.

Pots. What size pots are you using? I seem to recall reading that you said they were in 4 inch pots. Anyway, a pot doesn't need to be that big when starting seeds. When a larger pot than required is watered, the potting soil stays wet longer than a smaller size pot. Especially is the plant doesn't have a good root system, which is what plants that have just sprouted don't have, because the plant can't utilize all that extra water quick enough. The fact that the pot stays wet longer is detrimental to a seedling roots because the roots won't grow well in wet soil (not moist, wet). And a plant without good roots won't grow well. The way around this is to use smaller pots, use a lighter potting soil, and/or use a pot that has a large surface area which allows excess water to evaporate quicker (flats, for example).

Rodney

Thanks Rodney for your reply. Seems to cover all aspects where I should be looking.

Btw, the same way (same CFL, same pot size, same medium) I got the tomato and the cucumber germinated and now they are outside in their own individual large containers. I believe the CFL should not hopefully be a problem. As for the pot size, since I think that cucumbers and tomato germinate fast and grow quickly the medium had not got very hard and compacted by then and therefore it did not hinder their growth. The pepper are a bit late to germinate and by that time the soil may have become a bit uneasy for them. So the pot size along with the medium could be a reason for this sluggish (or no) growth. I can get a flatter surface for germination, but my real problem is the seed starting mix. I cannot find any over here. The only thing available is potting soil - high in peat. How should I overcome this problem? I have perlite separately and fine sand along with the regular high peat based potting soil? Can I prepare one with what I have available? Will just fine sand be ok for germination?

Perhaps I may have even sown them a bit deep? How deep the seeds of pepper should be planted?

If they are close, They will stand into the low twenties, so you you still have a fighting chance to get heads.

This close , maybe

Thanks for your responses. Our average first frost date is October 15...We have had one night go down to 31 so far. At least the plants look good..Just like the picture you posted, farmerdill. I grew fall broccoli one year and it was the best I ever tasted. Finally tried it again and I thought it would be easy...!

I wouldn't grow food in treated lumber, especially old lumber which may have been treated with arsenic compounds. It would leach poisons into your food. Stick to ornamentals or containers placed into the hayrack.

You've got the artistic idea. That is number one.

I would make a step to get on the wagon. Then have a 2ft walkway length wise in the center.Now you will have a "U" shaped garden on the wagon. That way you will have UP TO about 80 sqr-ft garden, if fully packed.
Then you pack both sides with rectangular containers, similar to plastic storage boxes. (of course you have to drill holes at the bottom)
This way you can dedicated them to differen things. Diffrent thing require different waterig an fertilizing need. This, IMO, is better than just filling the whole wagon as a single bed/container.

Of course, you will have to spend some extra money on those containers but it will worth it.

This post was edited by seysonn on Tue, Oct 29, 13 at 0:21

Ralph ... I think all tree roots and leaves/needles acidify soil, not just pine. I have used pine straw as mulch and never have had a problem. The advantage of pine straw it that it don't get wet and mushy, as opposed to leaves and wheat straw. Also, they make a good soil amendment, IF you don't have serious LOW pH problem.

Like you said, I also do think that a soil test is necessary at this point. Then if soil was acidic (pH less than 6. 6.8 being ideal) it can be corrected to some extent by adding lime, tilling it in and letting it work in during winter months.

But it is up to Kelby to decide what to do or not to do. To establish a garden one has to make some investment in time, efforts and money. I said INVESTMENT not EXPENSE. expense goes but investment has return.

Kelby: you've gotten a lot of good advice. I just want to add that using leaves for compost or adding to the garden will work much better if the leaves are shredded. You can use a lawn mower to do this as suggested. I have been using a leaf blower that has a reverse setting so it acts like a vacuum and shreds them while picking them up. This has been a wonderful experience. Huge amounts of leaves are turned into manageable amounts of ground cover with a small amount of effort. I got my leaf blower for $60 from a hardware store. If you don't shred the leaves, they can become a matted mess and take more than a year to breakdown in your garden.

Thanks Kevin. Will try that. I can already imagine the look on their face when I tell them its for the garden!

rhizo: I wish it was something that exotic!

Hi Raistlyn, yes you can try it without the urine, and there is another recipe I've read that recommends using horticultural castor oil (not sure what that is) and about a spoonful of dish detergent as a surfactant, I would guess.

I have used CVS brand castor oil, and "Homehealth" brand and had success with both. I don't know if "horticultural" castor oil would work better or not.

The voles were wreaking carnage in my front gardens 2 years ago, I lost many many bulbs and perennials. I was despondent when my seed-grown native Hyacinth were disappearing day by day, and appalled to watch 1/2 of an old established Buddleja davidii come loose at the roots and blow across the front yard like a tumbleweed. I was desperate!

This castor oil solution saved my last 2 remaining Camassia scilloides bulbs and everything else for that matter. The mixture lasts a long time and it seems you need to reapply about ever 2-3 months. It does not appear to cause any ill effects to the plants. Btw, not sure exactly what the urine does in this mixture, but in general diluted urine makes an excellent nitrogen rich fertilizer for plants.

I scrounged up that pic of the parsley and a few other pics of vole damage from 2011.

Nothing left of these parsley roots.

Hosta eaten by voles -

These are the remnants of 2 very large Baptisia 'Twilight Prairie Blues'. Fortunately, they are recovering!

This post was edited by terrene on Mon, Oct 28, 13 at 18:12

Variety, some weather interaction, but overall, just the wrong varieties.

There is no problem growing sh2 varieties IF you start the seed in trays at constant warm temps. The plants are pretty much all somewhat tolerant of cold weather, but seed in the cold cold ground are not.

Give one of the synergistics a try. Some of them are excellent.

DarJones

I plant in the 9pack seedling flats around March 20, transplant to 2-3" cells in early April and plant in the ground through clear plastic around tax day, April 15.
Early Sunglow grown this way produces in mid June in the Washington DC area. It's a good first corn while waiting for main crop varieties to crop in early July. I've gotten it as early as June 6(2012) and as late as June 27(2003).
with this method. I plant successive crops and try to have corn until mid October here. After the first crop I only grow full season varieties such as Silver Queen, Kandy Korn, and Delectable. Their quality is just.. better and
in our hot summers growing time is not a problem.

Corn needs sun to develop good flavor. Cloudy hot muggy weather produces the worst ears. Mild (80 day 60 night) produces the best flavor
and highest yields though hotter than that results in a faster but smaller crop.

This is a condition known as brown bead. Multiple factors can cause it, but often associated with stunted growth. Some varieties are much more susceptible than others. http://growingsmallfarms.ces.ncsu.edu/growingsmallfarms-broccoliproblem06/

Here is a link that might be useful: Brown Bead

Yes! That looks just like it, thank you! Since stunted growth was not a problem, and high temperatures were listed as another associated factor, I'll figure it was that heat we got just before the rain. I get great satisfaction knowing what that is.

Now as I see in this thread, there are two opposing views - well not so very opposing - but still some difference of opinion:

1/ You opinion is that the intensity does not matter as long as the temps are under control. Higher intensity may actually be a good thing. UV is not a problem in low areas

2/ The other opinion is that higher intensity sunlight is actually not of any major use because of the concept of light saturation. Generally (and exceptions may exist) higher light intensity brings with it higher temperatures and therefore shading to reduce light intensity (and therefore temperatures) is not detrimental to the plant growth as the shade cover is only reducing the light intensity which is above saturation point (and therefore of not much use anyways).

Do you think I have summarized the two views properly?

I think these two views are pretty consistent.

Though as I said, it's simplistic to use a light meter to determine whether the lighting is above or below the saturation point. In all of my plants, there are few leaves that are both face-on to the sun and unshadowed by other leaves. In full sunlight, I doubt if the rest of the leaves are saturated with sunlight. So if you're going to shadow the plant to keep those few well-exposed leaves at the sunlight saturation level, all the other leaves are going to be WAY below the saturation level.

That being the case, just put the light meter away, and look at how stressed the plants are. If you think they might be stressed because of overheating, try some shading. But if you're shading when they aren't heat stressed, you're probably losing out.

This isn't about conserving sunlight. If a plant gets more than it needs, as long as it isn't being stressed, so what?

Cotton seed oil is just more saturated. Sunflower seeds oil should be close enough. They are originally solid.
The oil itself and the soap do not destroy the spores. They just create a film/layer that spores cannot get in. It is the same idea with milk and water. So, IMO, low fat milk is better that skim, because of the oil's film and sealing effect.
Neem Oil, I think,, does the same when it comes to PM. But it also repels some insects. Again,, I don;t think it kills anything .

Thanks for the link, danzeb. Checked it out and at the bottom of the page, 3 veg oils are mentioned: cottonseed, soy and canola. It looks as though cottonseed is better at controlling insect pests than the other 2.

If I can't find cottonseed oil for sale here, I think I will try the canola and will post the results. Cheers.

I have mine a few feet from the wood stove, and I lightly dampen the towel over them once a day. Mine are dirty, too. I wait until they are cured and I'm ready to cook to clean them.

Hi all,

Here's what I'm using to cure the sweet potatoes. The container is sitting on a seed starting heat mat. I've got a wet towel for humidity. Temp around 83ðF.

Beth