23,948 Garden Web Discussions | Vegetable Gardening

I don't think that the height is the over riding factor except for maybe the fact that your in a very hot climate. On the other hand, total volume is important and you said you had about 7 gallons per container. That's plenty of dirt to grow cucumbers. Your roots will grow out instead of down. I did some last year in five gallon buckets and that worked well.

Thank you all for your input.

I think I will try out both ways. In a foot deep as well as 5 inch deep and compare the results. Hopefully this will become a good future reference.

Thanks.

I have A & L Lab and never was very happy with them, never give me how much and what is need.
Never told me if there was anything tied up.if anything was tied up.

What you are telling me is don'y worry?

Why are there Labs out there that well give you more for your money?

Why don't you think that you should know everything about your soil?

What you are telling me is don'y worry?

Not at all. A professional soil test is a great thing to have. But your expectations of what a soil test is and isn't have to be realistic too. A soil test isn't a cure-all in any way. And it isn't a static thing anyway. It changes constantly depending on weather and what you do to it. That is one reason why many labs no longer test for N levels - they change weekly or even daily.

Why don't you think that you should know everything about your soil?

First, because it isn't possible. Like I said soil isn't a static thing. It is alive and it changes. Second, because minute testing for non-relevant things don't exist or are cost-prohibitive. Soil testing is done for the purposes of fertility. So you only need to be concerned with what is relative to plants growing in the soil - the items I listed above - and how those test results relate to the norms. That is what most any soil test will provide.

Sure if someone wanted to fork out several hundred dollars they can have it tested for all sorts of extra things like mercury and other toxic metals, specific types of bacteria, dissolved N vs. free N, the number of specific soil dwellers per sq. foot, and so on and so on unlimited. And yes, there are labs out there that will give you anything you want whether you need it or not as long as you are willing to pay for it.

For example, when you say "Never told me if there was anything tied up.if anything was tied up.". I'm not sure what you mean but no soil test is going to tell you that. You can't test for "bound up nutrients" if that is what you mean. But they will tell you your soil pH and that is what will determine if the nutrients are available tot he plants.

And most reputable labs aren't going to tell you specifically what to add since the choice is yours of the many things available - both organic and synthetic. All they make is general recommendations such as "x amount of nitrogen in some form" and "pH needs to be reduced to optimal levels by the addition of one of the following.

Interpretation of the test results is up to the gardener.

so I know that the soil well give my plants the minerals best and that nothing will be tied up as fare as minerals so the plants well be able use use everything and they well give the best yield.

Please don't fall into the trap of believing that you can somehow create perfect garden soil. You can't. If that were possible then we would all have the perfect gardens. Instead it is always changing, it is always in need of something.

Nor can having what some test tells you is perfect soil today can guarantee the perfect plants with the perfect yield. It just doesn't work that way and never has for any of us. While good soil is important of course, many gardeners are very successful with a WIDE variety of different soils all with a wide variety of different shortcomings. Soil is only one of the many variables of gardening.

I hope this helps clarify things.

Dave

Like others have said you can trellis the vines and of course prune them to keep them controlled.

Hi,
Just wondering what sort of luck others have had with this as well. Would like to plant some edible pumpkins (not Halloween ones). Not sure of the variety that's best, or time of year to plant. Also, we grow organically. Was thinking of using a 15x15 area in a raised bed for the pumpkin; have the rest of the plot (equal size) that I was going to put an asparagus bed in. Thanks!

Last year the wood chuck ate 28 of my broc. plants one day. Crowns were about half size on about a third of the 80 or so plants I had growing. Oddly, he preferred the leaves to the crowns. The 2nd day he ate about 12 more. The third day he must have been getting full he only ate about half of the leaves on another four plants. The next day his luck at avoiding my traps ran out. I was able to harvest several meals in spite of his best efforts to defeat me.(It was close!) I was also able to freeze up a few meals for winter. I share with 3 other households so there was certainly no surplus.

Seysonn asked about Silvery Fir Tree tomatoes. I've grown them a couple of times and I love them. I've grown them in a 10-gallon Smart Pot and in the ground, and they did well both ways. I was surprised at how big the tomatoes were with such a little plant. The tomatoes are very tasty and the plants themselves are really beautiful, with their unusual leaves.

-Anne

There is a detailed FAQ here on how to do hand pollination. Just click on the blue FAQ button near the top of any forum page.

But which to remove? Really makes no difference as your plant will very likely not be productive anyway. You might get 1 small cuke with good hand pollination.

Your container is far too small for even one plant and so it will be very stressed. Even if planted outside in a container it would need to be a much bigger container.

Bottom line - you are trying a grow this plant indoors under very artificial conditions and it simply isn't an indoor plant. Very few vegetables are. So just enjoy it as a plant for as long as it lives but don't expect to get actual cukes. Sorry.

Dave

I already know I'm probably not going to get much production. I just like to grow these stuff for fun and see what happens, even if it doesn't produce actual fruit. I guess I'll try a greenhouse variety next time.

To get the true benefit of warming the soil to transplants you need to plant thru the plastic. If you just put a shhet of plastic down and then remove it a few days prior to planting you'll lose the heat in just a few days.

Although there are sweet corn growers who plant under a perforated clear plastic, this is probably nor for you since weeds germinate in abundance as well as the corn.

Larger sheets of black plastic, available as mentioned, will not allow enough water to wick under and so if you do plan to plant thru the plastic you'll need to first lay rows of driptape. The 4' rolls of plastic don't necessarily need the driptape (I don't use it in the field). What I find is that the soil actually stays more wet under the plastic; however with a prolonged drought followed by I don't agree with the suggestions above as for injuring plant roots from the excessive heat in our zones. In fact I have planted broccoli, cabbage,and other cole crops as well as lettuce,peppers,tomatoes, melons, eggplant and onions thru black plastic for many years now with repeated success. The direction specified for growing "PA Simply Sweet (Candy) Onions is to plant thru plastic with drip irrigation.

The normal recommendation given for warming the soil is to lay the plastic a few days prior to transplanting thru it in order to adequately warm the soil prior to planting. Once you have the black plastic installed and see the added benefits of weed control and plant growth you won't want to remove it. Some even try to get 2 or more seasons out of a single sheet.

I've used rolls of black plastic ordered though a commercial agriculture suppy company. Before rolling it out, I drilled small holes (maybe used one quarter inch drill bit...don't remember it was so long ago) into the roll every 4 inches or so....takes awhile but the roll is large and has been used for several years. Some of the plastic has lasted two seasons. You could probably lay it out and punch holes with a pitchfork if your area isn't large and you start with a large sheet instead of a roll of plastic. Large size sheets are available at big box stores such as Menards and Home Depot. They can be overlapped to cover a larger area if you can't find a wide enough sheet. Put some rocks or landscape fabric pins/staples over the seam and cover the outside edges with soil. I use a pitchfork to add holes to any low spots that collect water.

I've only planted warm weather transplants through it such as peppers, tomatoes, eggplant, squash, cucumbers, and melons. Cut an X where you want the plant, and set the transplant in place. Much of the plastic was covered by foliage by time our days became hot rather than warm....and my idea of hot is over 80-85 F unlike many areas that see 90 and 100 on many summer days. I wouldn't recommend it for those areas unless it is torn out or mulched over before the heat hits. I'm using it over extremely well drained soil with lots of sand. I do not use it on the garden I have in an area with clay/clay loam since I think that soil needs all the exposure to air it can get. However, my daughter has used it on heavy soil and it worked fairly well while she worked to get her weeds under control.

It has been a real help in my far from home garden where it keeps weeds under control and maintains soil moisture when I'm away for a week or more. I usually hand water around each plant which takes time, but during rainy periods the small holes let the water into the soil below and hand watering isn't needed. Automated drip would be wonderful, but that isn't going to happen at that location.

In my area where really warm summer temps can be unusual, the added warmth with the plastic lets me grow the heat lovers and get a much earlier and longer harvest. Perhaps that is what your zone 5 is like, too, and then the plastic might be great for you.

I am growing parsley for the first time too on my youtube channel TheItalian Garden. If you would like to tune in and see how big i can get them i would love to test that question. Because now i am curious lol. love to hear any of your other questions on my channel.

Here is a link that might be useful: TheItalian Garden

Here is what I do to make parsley germinate faster in 7 days or less. Soak the seeds in soapy water. Fill a cup with warm water (not hot) . Add a drop or two of dish soap, and stir the mixture to help it dissolve. Place your parsley seeds into the warm water soap mixture and allow them to soak for one to two hour. The heat of the water and the dish soap will help to break down the tough outer casing of the parsley seeds. This will make them germinate and grow faster than they would without soaking.

A few plants, eaten as greens, will be fine. For seed in Zone 9 it is too late. They die a miserable death in hot weather.

I can grow Favas in the summer in my climate you just need some shade cloth to keep some heat off or an area where they get just morning sun and maybe a little bit of the mid day. but NO evening sun its too hot for them yes. I don't like favas very much so i am not growing them again but i have just sown my Bush beans just a few days ago. i will be showing them when they sprout on my youtube channel TheItalian Garden. i will be doing losts of general info videos on there if you would like to tune in would love to answer some question from people who need help.

Here is a link that might be useful: TheItalian Garden

Thanks Kevin.
I was in Fred Myers today they had seeds called Bibb Butterhead. So that is what it is. I will plant some.

yeah i was going to say bib or all year variety of lettuce. I am growing some on my youtube channel TheItalian Garden. Looks like you will have a nice fresh head of lettuce lol haha =D

Here is a link that might be useful: TheItalian Garden

Looks like a lettuce to me too. But maybe a cabbage also.

That's a good idea elisa. Especially for the rotation thing. After a couple years of gardening, I pretty much knew what each plant looked like. Peppers, because I grow many varieties, are a different story if I grow multiple varieties where the pods look similar to another. Screwed up last year with my superhot varieties. Regarding the rotation, I usually just try to recollect when I had such or such where. Probably won't work so well when I get old-timer's disease.

;)

Kevin

This post was edited by woohooman on Sat, Mar 1, 14 at 16:14

Even if the tag was missing, one should know what she/he planted there. Secondly, most garden vegetables are easy to identify close by and by tasting. Unless it is some kind of volunteer .
Having said that, often it is not possible to ID varieties of things like tomato b/c there so many varieties. So it makes sense to tag them if you want to save seeds from those.

Chitting or Greening:

When potatoes sprout in the dark, they are white and long: NO GOOD FOR PLANTING. twist them off.

Best way is to single layer them, like on the kitchen counter. The skin starts getting green (Thus the term greening), Then they start sprouting healthy greenish sprouts. Now that is worth planting. BUT the sprouts should be no longer than 1". Then you have to handle them carefully , not to break them.

I prefer shorter sprouts with just some suggestion that they are growing.
.

Good post seysonn.

I like my sprouts strong and sturdy...more than wisp.

I did consider automotive fluids, but it is a very well maintained company vehicle and definitely doesn't have any leaks. Also, he always backs in to the spot, so his front end is out toward the road... its only where the back end sits that I'd be planting (and he's only been parking there for about a month - long enough to rip up the yard, but not really long enough to impact the soil toxicity).

Thanks so much everyone for all of your help working through this. I feel like I have a much better plan for these crops now!

2cents from one who has done the 3 sister garden "successfully". The garden was 40x50, I did 4foot diameter mounds with about 3feet between. Put Silver Queen corn all over the mound with red yardlong beans around the perimeter of each. Threw in some butternut squash, Cinderella pumpkins, cantaloupe seeds and walked away. Weeded once mid season, picked a few bushels of corn, picked the yard longs as long as they were coming in, got a few anemic cantaloupe but several squash and pumpkins that were good. Even got some volunteer ground cherries and tomatillos from the soil seed bank. For not giving much effort, zero watering and maintenance, I thought it did fairly well. This method worked for a garden of neglect, I wouldn't bother with it again unless I had a large garden space that I didn't have a better idea for. This was my old garden that I didn't want to invest in because our house was on the market and I didn't want to sell after spending a lot of early season effort. New garden is much better cared for.