23,948 Garden Web Discussions | Vegetable Gardening

I like to start mine just 3 weeks ahead in paper cups with holes poked in. I plant out into black plastic mulch with drip tape underneath and cover with row cover until they start flowering well. Melons are not the easiest thing to grow. It always seems like some plants don't make it. I look under the row cover 2 weeks after planting and add some more seed if necessary. I do 2-3 different plantings to stagger the harvest. Shut the water off once the fruits reach full size so they will be much sweeter. Early on they need lots of water. Do not rush planting. Prep the soil with any kind of manure. They can handle rich soil. I have sandy soil.

insteng, it a shame you had to bury all of those melons. Maybe next time you could take them to a food bank instead?

Would careless watering lead to unintentional electrocution?

I got my shelving unit at Costco. Yes, Ceth, I thought about the watering-thing, too. The first year I had it, I draped painters plastic (cut to size) over each light unit. But since my shelves are now covered, the water cannot fall down unto the light underneath. I water with a pitcher and if I overfill, the water runs out the bottom and just rolls off the sides. If a person used a hose, I would think they would have to be careful not to spray the light bulbs.

All the electrical cords look over-done, but very little electricity is being used at one time. Again, a hose-in-hand might be a dangerous thing if the surge protectors were to get splashed.

From what a friend told me, we are out of freeze danger. I like the bucket idea, Kevin.

Marbella...advertizing is a no no

Saxton,
Last June I decided to expand my gardening area by laying down cardboard. The same day I planted some corn and butternut squash seeds in that area--they grew great!
I just cut small holes and removed the grass under the holes, filled with soil and mounded the area a bit, planted seeds, and then covered the remaining area with compost.
You might not be able to kill the grass before planting time, but you might be able to plant there anyway (with a little extra work).

It takes a long time to kill grass roots but you can put down cardboard and mulchy stuff on top and then make holes and plant in them. It won't work for small seeded things like carrots but you can make holes in your cardboard and mulch and plant tomatoes, peppers, zucchini, etc. Then in fall keep all that stuff decomposing and layer more good organic matter on it.

Thank you jimster for the PAN link. Unfortunately it is a 2001 link.

To determine what effects rotenone has been reported to have on the brain since the PAN review, I did the following Google Scholar searches.

Google Scholar search using the keywords rotenone and brain.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=+rotenone+brain&btnG=&as_sdt=15&as_sdtp=

I then did a more restrictive search using the keywords rotenone and parkinson.

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=rotenone+and+parkinson.&btnG=&as_sdt=15&as_sdtp=

Here is a link that might be useful: Google Scholar rotenone and parkinson search

I use a shop vac on cucumber beetles.

I just think it is funny that people assume organic pesticides will somehow know how to kill bad bugs but do no other damage. If you kill the pests you kill the bees as well.

It may be fusarium, but I might go with powdery mildew. Since I'm in SoCal also, mine look like that usually in may or so when it starts to warm up. I started planting snow peas in late Oct/Nov and that way I get some very nice harvest from Jan- April. Now that I understand Powdery mildew a bit more, I bet I can get them to go until late June, in the future.

I'm not growing them this year... water shortage. But with the unseasonably warm weather we've been having, I can see Powdery mildew showing up in peas this early.

JMO

Kevin

If you're still curious you could cut the affected stems (and roots) and look at the vascular tissue. Sometimes you'll see a yellow or orange discoloration inside with Fusarium wilt. It's the soil temp warming into the 70's that bring on the wilt symptoms, so I would think potted plants would be affected sooner. If there's any powdery mildew on the foliage the spots would be very obvious. It could also come in after another disease weakens the plant.

Kevin -- Interesting that you should mention the number of plants in my pot. I started with four, the recommended amount by my nursery. The next day, my dog at most of the leaves! Even though he didn't eat the stems or tear them up, I thought they might be goners, and bought four more. The nursery said there would be no trouble adding the four to the pot with the possibly-dying four. I wondered about that! Should I remove the original four?

Harvest after harvest? I was told the kale would die in the summer (so I would have to harvest it before it gets too hot. I'm in Arizona, where it will be over 100 by May, even April.)

GreenDream: As long as the most inner leaves are there, then they'll continue. So, it's up to you. I still say any more than 3 is too many, but if they bolt in say june/july, then there won't be such a need for root growth.

I've yet to grow kale that has bolted though, unlike collards. But I've only grown ONE(hybrid starbor) variety. And it gets pretty warm here also(inland San Diego), but Arizona is on a whole different level of heat than most of us in the summer.

That's the great thing about Kale(where I am, at least)... I can plant a few plants in the garden and it last me a good year or 2 before I pull it to make room for something else.

If you want to prolong the harvests, try to keep that pot cool when it really heats up. Maybe put some wheels under it so you can get it sun in the mornings and try to shade it when it gets hot. it's not so much much the air temperature, but the soil temperature that knocks cool weather veggies out. Maybe some mulch too.

But, yes. 2(3 max) for that pot, IN MY OPINION. (They do much better in-ground from my experience, though). But that's for when they're many months old. By the time May comes around, who knows if EIGHT(LOL) plants is too many?

In the future, try for a fall planting. That way, you can get many months of nice harvests. Check with your county extension to find out the earliest time you can plant.

"harvest after harvest" -- yes... you don't have to wait for the plants to get full size to harvest. Just pick the outer leaves and as long as you leaves the innermost leaves and they don't bolt, you can harvest anytime. It's one of those veggies that just keeps giving and giving.

Good luck and any more questions, feel free.

Kevin

You don't worry about your well?

I do, tho the well guys say I shouldn't have to.

I am on a well, too. Seems to be a good one. There is also a creek on the property boundary. It is just a trickle during summer, but it doesn't quite dry up.

Seysonn, there actually seem to be some differing experiences posted here by different people.
*********************************************

@ lucille,

That is right. There are different views. I am also expressing my opinion, based my experience, knowledge and understanding. So there is no offense here. In the end of the day one does what she/he wants to do. The discussion is not creating any mandate for anybody.

38 responses already! Well, lucille, if nothing else you have given us zone 5 ers (and colder) something interesting to read while the snow flies outside. :)

and you've inspired me to do some side by side comparisons of doubles and singles.

I expect to be at the greenhouse about 8:30 most mornings, so that would work.

Try 2-3 hours earlier than that. Just after sunrise.

Dave

By the time the eggplants bloom it's going to be hot and you will have the greenhouse open a lot for ventilation. Any bumblebees that stay the night will start working the blossoms first thing in the morning. You could include a few flowering plants around the door to attract them.

I have found that if I hold eggplants in containers kept on a table on my deck until they outgrow quart pots, then cover them with tulle for a couple of weeks after setting them out, they are plenty strong enough to deal with flea beetles. I have lots of mint, and throw mint cuttings on the ground around the plants. It deters some but not all eggplant flea beetles.

Cold frames and soil temps (although an excellent plan) aside since the OP doesn't have one and isn't talking about direct seeding right now. Rather the question is starting tomato and pepper plants indoors.

So we are still left with the issue mentioned several times above of it being far too early in his zone to start either.

Not only will the plants rapidly outgrow any containers used and require several potting-up transplants but they will be heavily stressed, leggy with weak stems and weak circulatory systems, but they will be far too large to tolerate the transplanting to the garden process well, There is ample evidence available to support these claims and many discussions here throughout the forums on the problems and failures that result.

Hopefully the OP will respond to this issue and reconsider the plan.

Dave

Yup, far too early for tomatoes, especially the varieties the OP lists. There is just no point to starting them early. They get leggy and flop over and try to set flowers in their little pots, only to languish when they finally do make it into the ground. Wait until late March and ride the momentum of warming days and abundant sunshine. The only tomato I would start this early would be a patio variety destined for life in a greenhouse or container where it could be moved indoors at night.

Peppers are different story. In recent years I've been starting them earlier and earlier here in central MA. Last year I started them the 2nd week of January and they did quite well. It means a lot of weeks of babysitting them, but they did produce earlier and in excellent quantity. This year I didn't get around to starting them until Feb 2nd.

As for what to start them in, why not try a soil blocker? I started using one a few years ago and quite like it. I don't use it for everything, but it works well for tomatoes, peppers, brassicas, and lots of other plants too. No fussing with odd-sized yogurt containers, no sending plastic to the dump, no waste at all.

Hence we have built a huge box, 16' x 4' x 3.5' high.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That box will waste a lot of soil (IMO). For (most) plants you don't need more than 1.5 ft depth. If I had to do it, I would make the box about 18" deep, with a bottom and support it on (like) cinder block every couple of feet. This way the box will be protected from the flooding under neath. JMO

If standing water is really that common a problem for you, then I can understand why you'd like to put down crushed concrete at the base for drainage. Presumably you could use gravel or pea stone as well - whatever is cheapest. I'm not sure that 1 foot of soil is enough to grow veggies satisfactorily. Maybe it would work for some shallow rooted crops, but I'd definitely want a thicker layer of soil than that.

If you are going to layer soil on top of recycled concrete (or gravel or whatever), you'll need to put a layer of good quality landscape fabric between. Otherwise the finer soil particles will wash down into the gravel and take up all the void space, which would defeat the purpose.

I'd say 8-12 inches of gravel at the bottom, then landscape fabric, then 2 feet or so of soil, leaving room for a layer of organic mulch such as straw or whatever at the top.

I can't envision insects being a major problem, but I've never lived in NM, so maybe critters are different down there than what I'm used to. If you wind up with an ant problem, maybe just treat with an organic insecticide?

I've tried it two years in a row now...FAIL! I used large 24" drainage pipe (3 1/2'tall) and cut 3" holes every so often. Then I tucked the berry plants in the holes as I filled up the pipe with potting mix. The first year I ran some drip irrigation through the middle of the pipe. It didn't soak through the soil tho, just made a bee-line for the bottom and all dripped away. Last year I fashioned a sprinkler head to the top of the pipe...didn't work either. The water soaks the foliage but not the soil. The key-hole idea might work if you can solve the watering problem. But my strawberries like lots of water...and yet, they like good drainage too, so I wasn't able to meet their needs. I'm using my pipe for a tall standing display of moss roses (portulaca) this year. A few volunteers sprouted with my berries and grew great...so I know they will like the set up.

Since you're thinking of the raised block method, maybe regular watering will work for you. Watch out for how vigorous strawberries can grow those runners tho....I have a feeling they will be like granddaddy spider legs everywhere.

Yeah, I have one of those strawberry planters which is pretty similar to your drainage pipe idea. It didn't work so well for strawberries for me either. For the past few years it has been planted with petunias, which seem to like it just fine.

I'm with 'ya about the runners. They can be a real pain to manage sometimes. But I'm hoping the elevated keyhole bed will help here too, since the runners will be easier to spot. Maybe. ;-)