24,795 Garden Web Discussions | Vegetable Gardening

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wayne_5 zone 6a Central Indiana

njit, I understand your problem. I have had it off and on for umpteen years. Vine crops are the only crop I tend to have disease problems very much with except for some early blight on tomatoes.

Rotation helps a bit sometimes. The best solution was to find virgin soil or soil that melons [watermelons and cantaloupes] had never been planted in before....fantastic results...like a 22 pound crenshaw cantaloupe and 38 pound Raspa watermelon...234 pounds of melon on a single plant.

The problem I have is soil disease...Mature Vine decline, yellow starting in the middle, and just no finishing plant health.

2 or 3 years and disease has been there.

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njitgrad(6A/6B)

Dave - I did not think I needed to feed my cukes any fertilizer (since my soil results three years ago were great). All I do is water. Should I feed before the season starts or and/or during the season? I just assumed that since everything else is growing so well (bush beans, zucchini, basil, and parsley) that I had enough nutrients in my soil.

What do you recommend I do next year ?

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hoppedup(Maine zone 5a)

It's definitely not moles, they're insectivores, only eat insects. They are known for pushing plants up as they tunnel but otherwise they are pretty harmless to your garden excepting their holes everywhere. They would also tunnel up to the carrot versus down assuming they'd even eat it in the first place which they wouldn't.

It could certainly be voles, they're more like rats and mice (both of which it could also be) You could try planting something to keep them away, you could try trapping them, some find that fake owls will keep rodents away but I've never experienced any luck with them, put and anchor some sticky traps out with a piece of carrot looking all enticing, you'll at least know what you're up against and how to move forward.

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Jeannie Hubing

Thanks, I was thinking of the evil sticky board. Thanks everyone for your help.

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Jim's(6 East end of Long Island)

Success DOES taste better! Congrats!

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Chris B(6a NY)

Congrats! Doesn't get more fresh than picking from your own plants.

If you ever get around to growing cherry/grape tomatoes, the taste(compared to supermarket bought) is UNBELIEVABLE.

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Peter (6b SE NY)

I planted sweet potatoes this year and they are not doing well. They are shaded by other more vigorous plants in the garden especially with the late planting date, and the slips I got from Steele were completely dried up. They sent more but they weren't much better and were very slow to get going, I was disappointed. I doubt I will grow them again. Maybe if I could plant them outside the fenced garden but as they are very attractive to deer I don't anticipate success. If I get a meal or two of fingerling sweet potatoes my expectations will be met.

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annie1992

I've grown sweet potatoes three times here in Northern Michigan, I'm zone 5. The first year the Georgia Jets I planted did wonderfully. The last two years I've planted Beauregard, Nancy Hall, Georgia Jet and another white skinned sweet potato. My yield has been pretty much zero, in spite of watering, mulching, building up that high "hill" that Steele tells me SPs like. I've given them up, I'll just have to buy them, the slips cost about $20 by the time I pay shipping and SPs are less than 50 cents a pound here in season. Definitely not cost effective, as well as frustrating...

I never thought of the night time temps, although I did cover the ground around the plants with black plastic to keep in heat, with no apparent improvement. It's usually in the 50s here at night, even in July and August, and some nights dip into the 40s.

Annie

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emmalehman

Thanks, that is the first I have heard of biofumigation. What a cool process.... I use beneficial nematodes, but this is the first I have heard of using plants to control detrimental ones.

I appreciate all the advice, I will hopefully update you all in a few months how things go. My garden is weed central, so I need to spend days dealing with that before I cover crop.

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exmar

No advice as to what to plant, that seems to be well covered. I used to like buckwheat, but it's gotten very expensive in recent years. Anyway, just wanted to pass along a trick to seeding cover crops or lawns. After you've tilled and got the seed bed ready and spread the seed, then use a rear tine tiller. I'm talking about the reverse tine tiller sold by lowe's, sears, etc. etc. Put the depth stake at "transport" tines in forward, enough throttle above idle just to keep it going and go over the seed bed. It scatters the seed around and slightly covers it. Very slick.

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dottyinduncan(z8b coastal BC)

Weather has been cool and overcast, not a lot of rain or sun. I am eating them raw but boy are they disappointing!

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Erica Heuer

i've got the same issue. Planted what is definitely Sugar Ann sugar snap peas in a newly rotated-to location, lots of bone meal, blood meal, kelp, manure, compost, green grass mulching. But also a lot of rain. So that might be it, i guess.

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cloud_dancing

Let me start with full disclosure, I am a organic gardener. I read the old book on Mittleider gardening decades ago and still see some intrigue in the "system". What is most important about the Mittleider system is not that it is organic or inorganic but that it is a system. Many of the principles are sound in any gardening style, like getting a quick start by seeding in a nursery of some kind, or watering the root zone and not the plant.

As for the fertilizer I prefer the organic method completely. My method consists of large compost piles that are created by cleaning the barn were my wife's 10 goat live and letting that set for a year and then feeding the rough compost to my worms in a 4 x 14 bed in my greenhouse floor. The finished compost is then spread about a half inch thick on my beds in my 70 x 70 garden and then more rough compost is placed between plants as mulch as needed in the growing season. I also apply a organic fertilizer mix that I got the recipe for out of Mother Earth News in a article written by Steve Solomon the founder of Territorial Seeds. The finished compost from the worm bed is full of worms and worm cocoons. As you can imagine when the mulch is pulled back the beds are full of worms. My soil after 10 years of growing in the same place is BEAUTIFUL! I would enjoy doing a three way comparison with three beds each of a different style. One my organic method, two the Mittleider method and third a cross using the mittleider method with all organic fertilzer.

I suspect two and three would have identical results as too how much production there was with the organic ferts being more expensive. Below ground I suspect there would be a large difference in soil activity, maybe not thou as the extreme dosing of ferts may overdose soil fauna. I can promise you though that neither would have a significant advantage over pure, wholesome, sustainable, organic gardening.

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daninthedirt(Cent TX; HZ10, Sunset z30, USDA z8a)

All the elements you've listed are in abundance in regular soil. They're "chemicals" when they come in a bottle, I guess, but not when they're mixed in with soil. I guess they feel odd when they come out of a bottle. As to oddness, to a new gardener, using compost as an amendment sure feels "odd", especially when it is based on manure. You want me to put WHAT on my plants??

That being said, the problem with chemicals in a bottle is that you can use too much of them, such that the soil has a lot more in it than it should.

As noted above, it is my impression that this method uses a medium that is virtually hydroponic, in the the soil substrate is very light. As a result, it leaches very effectively, and the nutrients are pretty much just what you put in it. Hydroponic gardening is pretty much chemical-from-bottle based. Unlike hydroponics, the nutrients you put in this soil pretty much end up on the floor below it, however.

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theforgottenone1013(MI zone 5b/6a)


Hoverfly, blue-tailed damselfly, ladybug, and crab spider. Just a few of the many beneficials in my yard.

Rodney

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hoppedup(Maine zone 5a)

Sweet! Thanks for sharing guys. I saw this fella a few weeks ago as well loved his eyes.

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zeedman Zone 5 Wisconsin

If you trim off the tromboncino vine tip, it will form new shoots from the nodes nearest the cut. Side shoots generally form female blossoms fairly soon, so you should still be able to get more squash before frost. Late in the season, provided the plants get enough water (they are water hogs) the vines tend to produce a large flush of female flowers, and the yield can be heavy... I freeze a lot of it. Personally, I enjoy the squash much more than the tips, which is why I only harvest tips when frost approaches.

"You grew Malabar Squash? you can grow it in your area? Isn't it a hot whether plant? And was it tasty, the shoots and the squash?"

Yes, I grew it here... but Malabar squash is daylength sensitive, so it didn't bloom until late August / early September. I was able to harvest a few large immature squashes, but ripe seed is impossible. The vine growth, though, was incredibly rampant... it was all I could do to contain the vines in a 20' X 30' area. The shoots were plentiful & succulent, and the vines produced new shoots from the cut ends very quickly; but they are mildly bitter. The vines grew until frost, and were not affected by PM, as were all my other squashes by that point.

"I know cucuzza is one that is loved for its tips."

Never heard that. I don't grow cucuzza often, since it is such a space hog... but I am growing it this year to replace my old seed. Young gourds are just now beginning to form. Personally, I find it hard to believe that those fuzzy vine tips are palatable... but then, some Filipino friends of ours eat the vine tips from bitter melon, so its possible.

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katyajini(z6 NYC)

Thank you so much zeedman for all that feedback!

Here is something about cucuzza vine tips, if you are at all interested. The tips are called terenumi but I hear any squash tip can be referred to as terenumi in Italian but I am not sure about that. Its all over the internet if you search for 'squash leaves recipes' or 'squash vine tips recipes'. Cucuzza is very similar to opo squash or bottle gourd, maybe the same vegetable, ( my God, I am telling you!), used in south east asian cusine and there too the tips and young leaves are loved in special dishes:

http://cookingwithrosetta.com/tenerumi-2/

http://poorandglutenfree.blogspot.com/2013/08/what-to-do-with-squash-leaves-and-stems.html

I read up quite a bit and the fuzzy nature of the tips and the stalks that you thought would be unpleasant are dealt with by peeling the stems. The little bit of soft fuzz on the leaves is delicious texturally.

Not knowing if I would hear from, and not being able to resist I gathered tips from my Tromboncino and Zapallo. I found the peeling of the stems, which I thought would make me hate them, is actually very easy, much easier than even peeling garlic, it took me just a few mins. If you just touch the cut end of the stalk, wanting to peel, the fuzzy 'skin' just pulls off.

I just flash stir fried them with a little onion, garlic and tomato in an Asian way and they were among the best greens I have ever tasted. And I am a greens fiend. Not at all bitter instead, sweet, smooth and flavorful.

The peeling does make a difference (I left some stems with fuzz on) and makes a lot more of the stalk available for cooking and the peeled stalks are delicious.

And you know what? I cut the tips yesterday afternoon and this morning I looked and each of the cut tips have 1-1/2 inch new shoot already growing from the node below. But not multiple shoots (at least not yet).

Maybe you didn't want to hear all this but it was on the tip (HaH!) of my mind.

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your knowledge. It moved me to dig a little deeper.

K.

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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Mac - this is a very old thread so you'll get more results by starting a new discussion and post it over on the Harvest forum (the food preservation forum here direct linked in the Related Forums list on this forum). You'll find discussions running there right now about how to deal with eggplants.

But the short answer to your question is it can't be done without some form of pre-cooking - be that blanching, lightly roasting, etc. - because it turns black and spoils so quickly. Which method you use for that depends on how you plan to use the eggplant when thawed. For the common eggplant dishes most of us either batter dip and lightly broil and then freeze or brush with olive oil, roast 1/2 way and then freeze. Check out harvest forum for more details.

Dave

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nancyjane_gardener(Zone 8ish North of San Francisco in the "real" wine country)

I have found, for an ice bath, rather than using up all of your ice cubes, freeze a juice jug (1/2 gal or so) and put it in the sink well ahead of time. It will last a bunch of blanchings! Before I figured this out I had actually gone and bought bags of ice!

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raymondo17(z9 Sacramento)

Glad to hear your corn's coming up too, prput68. A day later and the corn seems to be growing vigorously. 100% germination in one of the three beds, about 95% in the other two so far. Yeah, here's to a late fall. :)

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BahamaDan ZTropic

Good for you for persevering despite the naysayers at that nursery Raymondo! Keep us posted.

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tcgardener

The Seminole pumpkin seems to set fruit late after the vines get real long. Give it some time and it should start producing. Check out David Goodman's website for Seminole Pumpkin info Seminole Pumpkin project

I harvested about 24 pumpkins off two vines. Hopefully yours will do the same.

Craig

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jocoyn

IT is starting to produce......just lucky I have OTHER squash varieties that are C moschata! Not ONE male flower has bloomed even though there are about 50 immature males on the vines. Going to check out that site.

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farmerdill

I doubt that you have sufficient time. We use to turn them around in Virginia. We dug the spring potaoes in late June -early July, let some small ones lay in the sun until they greened up and then planted them (early July) for fall. Dug immediately when frost killed the vines. Those were short season varieties mostly Irish Cobblers and Green Mountain.

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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

The only time I had any luck planting this late was the one year where we had an unusually warm fall and the cold weather we normally get in mid-Oct. was delayed by almost 4 weeks into mid-Nov.

On the other hand if you have some small ones that would only get tossed away anyway you might as well plant them and then cross your fingers that the weather cooperates.

Dave

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Jim's(6 East end of Long Island)

Katya, forbthrbarea that is not able to put up a standard fence you might want to try a raised bed with fencing underneath. You can then cage around and on top of the bed making a small gate to enter and take care of it. I am doing just that right now to separate my strawberries.

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bcomplx(z6VA)

The Orbit product looks good, worth a try. I wouldn't go changing anything until you see how well it works in your yard, as designed.

With animals after targeted plants, this poly poultry netting is great. I have to fence my chickens out of the tomatoes, and they won't breach it. Some people use driveway reflectors on a stick to install it, but bamboo stakes are fine. plastic poultry netting

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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

It is way past the recommended transplanting size of before the third leaf develops so the odds of survival are low. But it won't survive in that pot either so all you can do is try carefully and gently transplanting it to the garden now and hope for the best. Good luck.

Dave

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LoneJack Zn 6a, KC

I agree with Dave. Also it looks like it might be in a shaded area now so if you can't wait to gradually harden it off to full sun you might try to find a place to plant it where it gets some shade from the heat of the afternoon sun.

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