24,795 Garden Web Discussions | Vegetable Gardening

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daninthedirt(Cent TX; HZ10, Sunset z30, USDA z8a)

Even if not allowed to freeze to death, true annuals go through their entire life cycle in one year. Their "mature size" is whatever they grow to in that one year. The point here is that Solanaceae are not true annuals, in that they don't self-destruct at the end of a year, though many let a freeze do that. In northern climes, you don't have much of a choice. It's amusing that many lists of perennial vegetables don't include them. Why? Because the northern assumption is that what can't make it though the winter is a horticultural annual. That's wrong. A frost intolerant perennial is a, let's say, practical annual, if you can't protect it.

It would be interesting to see an honest list of horticulturally perennial vegetables.

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2ajsmama

It would be interesting to see if you have an overwintered tomato how it does this year (esp. if you can plant it in the ground). My DD and her BFF are doing a science fair project on the lifecycle of a tomato plant, I told them that tomatoes are perennials in warm climates, but here they don't do well even if you can keep them alive, or at least I don't think they'd do as well as peppers.

Maybe something to do with the peppers lignifying, I don't think tomatoes really do that, my cousin has 2 Burpee hybrids in shrub pots (10 gal?) that I gave her last summer, they languished in 4" pots until I opened a bag of MG and potted them up. She moved them into her living room for the winter, I haven't been to her house lately but a month or so ago one had a small tomato - nothing like the size I was getting off these plants. But they were still alive. Going to have to try to plant them in her garden this year and see how they do but I think the answer will be "not well".

I do have some peppers I started from seed in Jan 2012, potted up until last year 2 biggest (Douglah 7-pot) ended up in 3-5 pots and 3 others (Bih jolokia ) in 2-gal pots, they did flower this winter but no luck hand pollinating. I also has a purple serrano the same age in a 1 gal pot, it was always tall and spindly, I cut it way back and it is looking wonderful now (I did get 1 serrano and 1 Douglah last winter).

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Slimy_Okra(2b)

I agree that you are over-analyzing the whole thing, which is a waste of time at best and could lead to frustrating crop failures at worst. I would suggest that you get your soil pH tested and then go from there to achieve a target pH of 6.5 to 7.0, which works for pretty much all the veggies you're growing.

I don't like applying urine to my garden because it can burn plants and it can also be high in sodium.

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jonfrum(6)

When you use urine, you have no idea what you're getting, as far as pH goes. None at all. You're welcome to pee on your soil, but if you do, forget about the numbers - you may as well pull them out of thin air.

Better to pee on your compost pile and let nature take its course. By the time the compost is ready for use, the soil critters will have worked things out for you.

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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Well Amish Paste is often described as a somewhat wispy plant in appearance so it could just be a plant appearance you aren't used to. I wouldn't expect it to look much like a Better Bush. In other words varietal appearances vary greatly regardless of if they are heirlooms or hybrids.

Don't know anything about Bison other than it is a dwarf determinate but if rapid wilting is the symptom then I'd sure be looking for other causes like over-exposure, less root development or root bound plants.

Dave

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jonfrum(6)

There could be a theoretical justification. Hybrids are a cross between two genetic lines, so you get the genetic contributions of both the mom and the dad. So-called 'heirloom' varieties are inbred lines - that's what keeps them a single consistent type. In genetics, the benefit of crossing two different lines is called 'heterozygote advantage.'

Another way to think of this phenomenon: many dog breeds suffer from genetic diseases that are the product of inbreeding. In order to get the dogs to look the way they do, you have to keep breeding the same types over and over, and eventually they get inbred. On the other hand, mutts are generally free of such medical conditions - being crosses between different types. they don't collect bad genetic mutations.

As much as the internet gardening world loves it's 'heirlooms,' hybrids have been used in agriculture and in animal breeding for a long time for good reasons.

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jrslick (North Central Kansas, Zone 5B)

These are tumbling tom tomatoes, special for hanging baskets. I put two plants in each basket and they do wonderful. I wouldn't worry about it if they are for hanging baskets.

I have 50 to put into hanging baskets any day now, but first we have to get rid of this cold weather!

Jay

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greendreamhome

Jay -- Your baskets look like they are the same size as mine (12" at the top, 8.5" at the bottom, and 7" high.) I wanted to plant Tumbling Tom, but the nursery didn't have them. Your plants are much bigger than mine. Mine have the leaves and stems growing much closer together; you can't see space through them.

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mckenziek(9CA)

Thanks for the extra detail. Pretty cool! I might have to look into it. I have heard of sketchup, but I didn't know about the geolocation feature.

--McKenzie

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gardenper(8)

What program is that that you are using that can even help estimate sun exposure in E-W or N-S planting? Seems interesting!

Granted, we can visualize which kind of planting might be better but to see it simulated, and even output in numbers that we can physically compare, would be fun also.

The main things I've heard about common garden crops is the tomatoes and potatoes. Some say don't use the same container soil or same plot for tomatoes and potatoes again, but others say they do and it's fine. It comes down to the issues of disease or sickness there. If the plants hadn't gotten any issues there last year, it probably is OK this year.

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milehighgirl(CO USDA 5B/Sunset 2B)

lacyvail, I was inspired by a post from you! I have been getting mine from Bountiful Gardens (love them!) but also found them at Cook's Garden. $4.95 for a 2 gram packet at Cook's Garden, and $2.50 for the same at Bountiful Gardens. (That's a no-brainer!)

Have you been able to save seeds yet? From the previous post it seems that if they over-winter they should bolt and produce seed. They would have to be isolated also.

Here is a link that might be useful: Which variety of swiss chard to grow

This post was edited by milehighgirl on Tue, Apr 15, 14 at 14:05

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laceyvail(6A, WV)

I saved seed years ago, but the arrival of voles changed everything; they devour the roots over the winter, so saving seed is not an option.

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gardenper(8)

I usually like to use Mother Nature's rain to help water, so when I can see that some rain is coming in (especially with 80% chance!) then I would definitely get as many seeds/starts/seedlings planted out as much as possible.

The other part of this is that, while it's great to try to get them in before the rain, even the same day before the rain, but after the rain, you might have to wait a few days for the ground to dry more before doing other planting work.

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terry_neoh(5b)

Like most plants, deep watering about once a week should be fine for onion sets. Constant watering could lead to pink root or thrips. Mulch is okay, but pull it back some whenthe bulbs start to form.

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gardenper(8)

That sounds like a good spot for herbs that you could access easily from your deck. Otherwise, the suggestions from charlieboring are great!

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howelbama(7 NJ)

What is the drainage like? Does the cement slab cause the new soil you put in to puddle up during heavy rain?

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lucillle

That's a good idea but I think most are coming to help with the work. I think some of them are her good friends but not gardeners.
But I will make a point of suggesting a plant trade party for next year. (Hopefully dear son will have proposed by then, this gf is a keeper).

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nancyjane_gardener(Zone 8ish North of San Francisco in the "real" wine country)

LOL Many moons ago, my BIL wanted to have a rugby club party at our 5 acre place (they were city folk)
We thought this would be a great opportunity for some strong young men to help us dig our garden area!
We put the keg at the far end of the garden area and a bunch of shovels at the gate with instructions to dig their way to the keg.
What we ended up with was a trompled down path from the gate to the keg!
Don't include beer, but food might be a better incentive ......or beer AFTER the garden is done! ;) Nancy

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carolync1(z8/9 CA inland)

If nighttime temperatures are the issue, put the tomatoes outdoors during the day, getting them gradually used to full sun. Bring them in at night. Keep transplanting into larger (but not TOO MUCH larger) containers with good drainage and well-aerated planting mix to help the plants concentrate on growing bigger rather than flowering and fruiting. One USDA extension in Texas recommends starting plants early and transplanting up to a gallon sized container before setting out because their hot weather sets in so fast in the spring.

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annew21(7b NC)

Definitely agree with Dave about removing the blossoms. I always remove early blossoms after I have planted in the garden, until the plants have at least doubled (or more) in size. It definitely seems to improve production in the long run.

- Anne

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pnbrown

If rows are east west then of course more care must be taken to get tallest crops to the north and shortest south.

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gardenper(8)

I grow 3 varieties of peppers that I like to eat, and about 3 varieties of basil also. So while you mentioned a general name of the plants you had, in case you were only growing one kind, now you can grow several kinds.

I also like mustard greens as well as feeding it to my birds for their greens to munch on.

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howelbama(7 NJ)

You want your tallest plants (trellised or otherwise) on the northern side of your garden so they don't shade out anything.

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gardenper(8)

Crop rotation was more of an idea for larger planting areas where it may not have been possible to replenish the nutrients there for the next season (or two), including not having enough compost to cover the entire growing area.

However, in backyard plots, you can do that with compost or other nutrient mixes for the small quantity of planting that you will do.

You can still use the idea of square foot gardening in your yard, so you can make more use of the growing space.

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jonfrum(6)

Frost-damaged potato vines will grow back - no problem. I wouldn't bother starting them under lights - not much is gained.

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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Agree they will grow back unless the container and all of its contents got frozen, they recover. I had damage to exposed tops the past two nights in my potato fields, and we had hilled them under when the freeze was forecast, but expect full recovery.

Dave

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andy32844

Yea it looks like the pictures I posted. Those are pictures I took last night. I just wanted to be sure before I haul it to the garden.

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2ajsmama

Sorry! So many posters I didn't notice that the person who posted the pix was the OP. That looks really good, till it in or just spread it thick and plant right in it, the worms will take care of the rest.

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bart1(6/7 Northern VA)

That's garlic you harvested last year, right?

Not sure when you harvest in San Francisco, but for me in VA, we harvest in June, so my bulbs have been sitting around for 10 months. Mine has been pushing out new "sprouts" for months. I just use the ones that are growing sprouts first and save the rest for later.

So to answer your question, what causes this is time. Garlic, onions, and potatoes will all start growing if you leave them long enough.

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seysonn(8a WA/HZ 1)

OK. Now I get it. Those are last years galics ?
The one that has fully opened, probably was overdue when harvested OR just the sprouting pressure pushe the wraps open b'c there was not enough wrap on it to begin with. JMO

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