24,795 Garden Web Discussions | Vegetable Gardening

RadicchioIs it hard to grow? How bout without spraying?
Posted by keepitlow(6)
14 Comments
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
thompson_carlisle

That's what I want to know! Bought some at a farmstand here in VT with all the outer leaves. Look tasty, can't find any answer to this question and the girl at the stand didn't know.

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
theforgottenone1013(MI zone 5b/6a)

There shouldn't really be any difference between the outer leaves and the inner head except for them maybe being tougher and less tender or more bitter.

Rodney

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
glib(5.5)

this can be computed. Say I produce a head of cabbage (3lbs) per square foot, at 0.5% ash (whole foods catalog number), and the (mineral) soil is typically 150 lbs per cubic foot. It will take about 1000 crops to lower the soil by one inch. Soil subsistence seldom creates sinkholes. Much more often it will create shallow depressions, as is this case. A possible other hypothesis is soil compaction through human traffic, or more abundant watering having leached the mother rock a bit. But they seem like small effects.

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
daninthedirt(Cent TX; HZ10, Sunset z30, USDA z8a)

3 cabbages per year from a square foot of garden is certainly a pretty optimistic number. So the calculation is an interesting one, and I suspect it proves the theory isn't relevant. The idea of mineral leaching is a good one. The difference between a garden bed and the soil next to it is deep cultivation, and that deep cultivation makes the soil far more permeable. So irrigation of a garden bed can, in principle, carry away a lot more dissolved minerals than an uncultivated bed, in which the water just soaks in and eventually evaporates there. In principle, what this ought to do is to very slowly drop the bed level, and very slowly increase the level of the surrounding soil.

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
grandad_2003(9A/sunset 28)

Digging up this old thread after doing a multi-year experiment.

I've had great results with Ambrosia cantaloupe over the years until I began trying other cultivars. So my experiment was to plant only Ambrosia vs. planting Ambrosia and another cultivar. The results thus far are - in (3?) years where only Ambrosia was planted all melons were sweet, vs. in (3?) years where another variety was planted along side Ambrosia, some Ambrosia melons were sweet and some were not. So, was this coincidence or were the non-sweet Ambrosia melons cross pollinated? Or, could it be that the seeds planted in the inconsistent years not true Ambrosia Hybrid quality?

Second, our local garden center expert prefers Aphrodite over Ambrosia...says it's a sweeter melon.

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
vgkg(Z-7)

I never did get back here to update my Goddess melon tryout in 2012. Though they got off to a good start many of the Goddess melons were lost due to ends splitting open and the ones that did ripen properly had too firm/crisp of a texture for my tastes as compared to the melt-in-your-mouth Ambrosia melons. The last couple of years I've returned to planting only Ambrosia cantaloupes and am content with sticking to them.

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
elisa_z5

Take a container of soapy water and go around shaking them into it. You can really take care of a lot of them that way. You'll be putting them into the water, not putting the water on your plants.

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
bardamu_gw

Just wanted to add that I've read all those mom and pop shop worm websites and they all repeat each other about temperature, but are all rather vague if they are honest. It's a general rule from some unmentioned scientific study testing the limits of the worms, but in my experience these worms are more resilient than are described. I'm no expert, just have had them for two years. If your livelihood depends on their health, do some rigorous research and your own study. If you are just trying to get nice compost, try it yourself.

I live in zone 6, I have compost piles of leaves, yard waste, and kitchen wastes that are about 3 feet high and three feet wide during the winter, and the 'red wiggler' adults last winter were outdoors in compost. They survived. I bought them off eBay and was told these are red wigglers.

Besides if they die completely or you feel the count is low, you can buy thousands for ten bucks or so.

I've tried keeping them inside, it's not really worth it because they just sit there waiting for real work to do, and they reproduce like crazy, and you have to check on them to make sure they are not too dry, etc. Better to give them real compost and lots of room, that's when they become useful with no maintenance, in my opinion. Good luck.

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
theforgottenone1013(MI zone 5b/6a)

Sounds good in theory but in practice probably won't work too well. Worms have their own needs and you'll have to be able to access where they are too feed them. Plus if you don't keep them contained in some way they will just migrate around as the soil moisture and soil temp fluctuates. If you want to raise worms then it'd be best to give them their own worm bin(s), either outdoor or indoor bins.

Red wigglers and their eggs can survive freezing temps but it's obviously not ideal. Here's some info I found earlier this year when I was searching about freezing temps and eggs from the Manual of On-Farm Vermicomposting and Vermiculture:

"Effects of freezing. Eisenia can survive having their bodies partially encased in frozen bedding and will only die when they are no longer able to consume food . Moreover, tests at the Nova Scotia Agricultural College (NSAC) have confirmed that their cocoons survive extended periods of deep freezing and remain viable."

And if you amend your soil with organic matter routinely then worms should find it all on their own. I always have a ton of worms (figuratively) in my beds after I mix in shredded leaves.

Rodney

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
caryltoo Z7/SE PA

I'd leave it on the vine simply because of the DTM. My watermelons are still tiny and I planted out around the same time as you.

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
christacharlene(6)

Thanks. I am going to leave it on for now. My watermelons are various sizes at this point. Here is a picture that I took on July 7th, it is quite a bit larger now than it was when this photo was taken. If I had to guess I would say it probably currently weighs around 15 pounds.

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
kandhi(z7VA)

I pulled the plants out as they were not doing any good. Can I use the soil t for other planting or have to trash it? Do you think the soil has bacteria still in it and might infect any plants planted in that soil?

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Is this container soil you are talking about "trashing"? I assume so since it would be hard to trash in ground garden soil. :)

Keep in mind that bacteria and fungus normally reside in all soil. They are only an issue for the plants given the right weather conditions so normally most container soils can be re-used with no issues. You can just dump the container out on a plastic tarp or such mix it all up well, mix in some fresh soil mix and fertilizer for nutrients, and refill the container.

Dave

1 Like    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
tigrikt (Central NJ)(6B)

I like Californian recommendations on PM as they dealing with it all the time

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ohiofem(6a Ohio)

Please do not poison raccoons. Golden Malrin is an extremely potent poison that causes a painful death. It is for killing flies. Any other creature (bird, insect or mammal) that eats a poisoned raccoon will die the same way. It's best to trap them or even better to contact a professional or your local wildlife office. It is illegal throughout the U.S. to poison any wildlife other than rodents. Read this:Poisoning raccoons

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
karl_tn

I used to put a fence round my garden but just to keep my dog out. I have rabbits that don't bother my garden. The deer in the past didn't bother it either. I do have fruit trees and did see one eating some apples. I don't mind sharing and will let it eat as much as it wants. Hunting season for me starts in sept. :) as far as calling local wildlife around here for a coon they would probley laugh at you. I like my traps, but do what works best for you. I told the wife if I see the rabbits in my garden there Gona end up I'm my freezer

1 Like    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
grandad_2003(9A/sunset 28)

IMO First time gardening & garden plots are the most difficult. Many folks have "thrown in the towel" after their first year of gardening. Second year is generally a bit better but can also be somewhat difficult. Your word "experiment" is right on. But the experiments are never ending. The results and subsequent information gained from gardening experimentation helps to develop your gardening methodology.

iMO weeds are the number 1 problem. Tackle this and things become a lot more controllable... The suggestions above are great....hoeing, hand weeding, black plastic, leaf/straw mulch are all great for weed control. I find all methods to be appropriate and each may work better for a specific vegetable. E.g. In our deep south (hot) climate, I find black plastic is great for squash, watermelon, strawberries, & cantaloupe; but not so great for tomatoes, eggplant or bell pepper....which seem to prefer leaf (in my case) mulch.

I use an electric fence for critter control. But, I realize that this may not be suitable for everyone.

I hope you don't give up....& decide to keep your "experiments" going in the years to come.

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
glib(5.5)

Granddad and me are two of the most enthusiastic electric fence pushers. An electrified, strong fence extending underground is a gardener best friend. The best I had was chainlink, only four feet tall, with a hot wire right above it. The deer could easily jump it, but I had the good sense of baiting the wire with peanut butter. I even saw a deer touching it, it jumped several feet in the air and the whole herd was off to the races.

The fence went down to the ground and outward a foot (just under the surface) and no critter could dig under it. It was pretty amazing to have a groundhog burrow ten feet from the fence, a deer trail 8 feet from the fence, and a pristine garden.

Nowadays, too many kids around, no electric fence, I have a 8 feet deer fence on top, rabbit fence below, extending underground. The rabbit fence has needed overlapping chicken wire, because juvenile rabbits were still coming in, but so far this summer has been break free.

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
gumby_ct(CT it says Z5)

Try the flashlight at night mentioned. If nothing is found check the soil below, they form a cocoon about 1in below the soil line. Search for pix of the SVB cocoon so you know what to look for.

You can also check the main stem and leaves for a single orange/reddish spec which would be an SVB egg.

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
annew21(7b NC)

My method is to follow the frass up the stem and find where it ends. That's usually where the borer can be found. Use the smallest tools you can find for the "surgery" so you do the least amount of damage to the plant. If your plant was big and healthy when it was attacked, it very well may survive even if you never catch the borer.

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
ccabal(7)

My chicken love the SVB grubs. When I pull up the vines, and they see me with the vines and knife in hand, THEY COME RUNNING!!!

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
elisa_z5

Thanks all. I'll go out with a knife tomorrow!

ccabal -- love the image of your chickens coming running :)

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
carriehelene(5 Upstate NY)

Found a couple of growing watermelon and female pumpkin flowers today. Awesome knowing what I'm looking for!

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
springtogarden(6A)

Yeah :)! One of the best crops to grow. I make sure to have at least one growing from that family. Oh who am I kidding, I always have several ;)

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
zeedman Zone 5 Wisconsin

In the high desert you probably need shade cloth this time of year, to cut down the sun exposure.

    Bookmark    
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
drscottr(7)

I might suggest folks consider Proteknet. I used it to cover my bean towers and keep the Japanese Beetles and Mexican Bean Beetles off the plants. It comes in a wide roll, has a stretch nylon consistency, doesn't tear, and lets water and light through.I initially used bags of compost to hold down the netting but that doesn't even seem to be needed. The material is heavy and doesn't blow around at all. The stretchiness allows the bean vines to grow over the top of the tower without issues.

I got tired of hand picking 100's of Japanese beetles off the plants every day. I'm really sold on this product after using agribon and other similar products unsuccessfully before. The agribon just tear too easily and blows around.

The downside is that proteknet is expensive.

Scott

    Bookmark