24,795 Garden Web Discussions | Vegetable Gardening

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wayne_5 zone 6a Central Indiana

I start cauliflower and any cabbage about June 20th here. In your area you likely need to start them a bit later.

Lettuce will not germinate well in hot weather. i start my butterhead lettuce INDOORS in plastic pots July 23rd. Likely you would start lettuce a bit later.

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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Since they are all early spring crops so too late now I assume you are asking for the times to start them for a Fall garden? When is your first frost date? Around mid-October for zone 6b I think? Are you going to direct seed them or start them indoors? If indoors then my best guess is you'd want to start the cauliflower and cabbage early July and the lettuce mid-July. This all depends of course on the specific variety you are using as they all have very different DTM (days to maturity).

Dave

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rgreen48(7a)

Not to butt in, but there are so many ways to garden. learning from others helps us to fine tune our methods to achieve the goals we want out of gardening. What is the 'proper' way for one person, may not be proper for others.

For example... my space is somewhat limited, so I push the limits of crowding. Some may say that it's not 'proper' spacing. However, my goal may not be to get the biggest fruit, or weight per plant, but to get maximum yield per sq. ft. I recognize that my style may open me up to potential problems, I appreciate information warning me of such hazards and information that teaches me about the plant's preferences, but unless I tell someone - I, and only I know my goals and reasons for my methods.

What is 'proper', or appropriate for some, may not be 'proper' or appropriate for me, my goals, my specific plants, or my situation.

Anyway, I'm new here, and this is a little off the topic of the thread, and frankly maybe none of my business (except as a reader and user of the site like anyone else.) I, however do try to appreciate all comments, even if we don't agree. Learning can happen under many circumstances, not all of them favorable.

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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

Couple of points. First, it is early June so based on all the comments so far what we have been talking about is pruning/watering during the season. Not sure how we got to end-of-season but end of season pruning/topping is a whole other ballgame and none of my comments above were related to that. Regardless of zone we all share at least a 75 day growing season for tomatoes. That's the season I was addressing.

Second, since we have gotten so far off the original question I hope the OP doesn't mind if I add (or reiterate) that I know many folks grow things in very different ways and yes, I know that what works for one does not work for all. I know we all have different zones, different size gardens, different goals, different situations, etc. But that does not mean there aren't common standards for growing tomatoes or corn or beets or whatever. It also doesn't mean that a tomato plant doesn't have specific needs no matter where it is grown. That's why I stressed IMO. I prefer to make the needs of the plant the focus, not my needs.

However, if one has first tried some of the 100's of ways before deciding that Method Z (whatever it may be) is the only way that will work for them, that's great. At least they tried. But if they have locked themselves into a belief or a method only because they "read something about it on the web or in a book so it must be true" or because "this is the way Grandpa did it" or because they "don't want to make the effort to try any other ways" or because "if it ain't broke why should I try to fix it" then they may well be doing themselves and their plants a disservice.

They then compound that disservice by making authoritative comments like "people are under a misconception that they need to water a lot. He said water LESS to get MORE harvest. The people who water more get less of a harvest."

I wonder if he has ever read any of the many studies done on the production levels from dry-farmed fields compared to the production levels from irrigated fields and how he would explain the greatly increased production from the latter?

Dave

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HondurasGardener

Easy - I stood up the blown down stalks, packed dirt around the base. Good as new.

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akoosborne

Ok. I'm new here. Thanks for all the info. all. I had three bad storms come thew last night. My corn is about six foot tall. Just wanted to add. All I did was soak the grownd. Put t post on each end. Power cord and pulled it back up. Heard a few cracks. But I think it will be fine.

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rgreen48(7a)

Keep in mind Domo, that neither cow manure, nor peat moss is soil. Mixed together, they still aren't soil lol.

Do not despair! Not all may be lost. The biggest problem is that by now you probably have fruit, and making physical changes to the growing medium would probably send the plants into a shock. Too late in the season to recover.

I would flush the medium with a lot of water (like - a lot.) Then mix up a low-concentration fertilizer tea, or a soluble fertilizer solution made specifically for tomatoes and add that at in low doses. Watch for a response from the plants (can take a few days to a week.)

Another, more difficult problem is ph. The peat, unless pre-conditioned by the seller, is acidic. Ditto, but not as much so, for manure. Tomatoes don't mind a little acidity, in fact they prefer a mildly acidic medium. However, the two substances you have in those buckets are probably more so than you want. The manure will probably buffer the acidity a little, but you need to do some research into maybe adding an alkaline amendment, such as hydrated lime (contains calcium, an important nutrient for tomatoes.) It's a tricky move though, as hydrated lime can be powerful stuff and a bucket is a very small environment. It must be added sparingly and carefully.

You can look up the specifics for the ph needs of both tomatoes and peppers, and how to adjust ph using slurries and liquid mixes, but knowing the exact ph of what you have would help a lot.

In any case, although tricky, it's not hard, and you can do it. Just remember... less can be more, and from this experience you'll learn A LOT! about the needs and care of plants.

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theforgottenone1013(MI zone 5b/6a)

Agree with Jean that it appears to be herbicide related.

Rodney

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daninthedirt(Cent TX; HZ10, Sunset z30, USDA z8a)

Sounds successful. I am a bit surprised, however, that you found the leaf layer hard for water to penetrate, and that the leaves have not yet broken down. I guess I have to ask how ground up they were. Grinding them with a lawnmover makes for a consistency that is highly penetrable, and (especially when dug in) breaks down in a month or two. Maybe if your leaves were just coarsely shredded, I could imagine things happening like you say they did.

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jagdjh

They actually weren't grinded up at all. They were just sucked into the back of the truck, and then compacted like a garbage truck. I agree if they were more ground up, it would have helped with the decomposition. As they are, it is like sheets of cardboard.

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cobra8888

Yes, I use a hand bucket of water from a rain barrel and pour it on the ground, not on the plant. I do it every 2 or 3 days depending upon rainfall (which has been minimal). I haven't seen any wilting, I only mention it because that is my barometer for a plant that is very thirsty - I have not seen spotting as an indicator before.

You are correct that there was no mulch under the plants, I added some a few days ago.

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gumby_ct(CT it says Z5)

I also use rainwater and posted this before...

Here is a link (2005) to how I water my garden ...
Deep watering for heavy feeders growing on upright trellises

I should add the nowadays I also use those rather large plastic pots you get when you buy large plants - fill about half-way with leaves and compost (just enuff so the water just ooozes out the pot holes) then dump in rain water from a 5 gal bucket. So the nutrients leak out of the pot with the water.

This keeps the plant leaves from getting wet when sprayed from above and allows the water to soak deeply in one area and not be wicked away by the hot summer air.

At times I will add coffee grounds to these pots too. Also anything so the water leaks out slowly and soaks in deeply close to the bucket/pot.

Keep in mind the plants feed from the root tips and the root tips may be a long way from where the plant stem enters the soil. That is where I place the pots/buckets.

Check your root depth/length here...ROOT DEVELOPMENT OF VEGETABLE CROPS

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daninthedirt(Cent TX; HZ10, Sunset z30, USDA z8a)

Carbaryl/Sevin breaks down pretty quickly. It lasts just a few days on leaves, and in aerated soil just lasts a week or two. It can last a month or two in an anaerobic clay-like soil. Sunlight, water, and air all contribute to its degradation.

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wayne_5 zone 6a Central Indiana

To the original poster... You apparently needed to get the bugs off initially. Do you think there is some spray that kills only the original bugs and leaves others alone?

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buckeye_brian2

laceyvail...VERY NICE! I will stop pinching starting today. It will be an experiment to see if my tomatoes perform as usual. I started doing the Florida Weave last year and won't do anything else (staking wise) again. It worked out for me beautifully...

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Miss_Moose (Winnipeg, Canda. Zone 2)

I planted both determinates and in-determinates this year and then lost track of which is which... guess they'll just have to do their thing lol I'm too afraid to accidentally pluck blooms from the determinate hybrids! :)

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theforgottenone1013(MI zone 5b/6a)

To be honest, the biggest issue I see with your pepper plants is that you are trying to grow them in small cinder block holes. Gonna be quite hard to keep those plants stress-free once they start growing and the weather warms up more. This could explain why you seem to have a minor disease problem now (stressed plants are more susceptible to both disease and pests).

Also, from the tag in the soil I see these were Bonnie plants. Hopefully you removed the peat pots prior to planting. Contrary to what they claim the pots will seriously impede the growth of roots since it takes a long while for the pots to decompose, usually longer than a single growing season.

As for the Sevin. By the time the peppers are big enough to eat, which won't be for a while, it will be a non-factor.

Rodney

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cruzde

Thank u!! I guess I will b doing some more work out there n replanting! I want happy plants. So glad I came here for advise. I do pretty good with flowers, but this is my first time with a veggie garden. Thank you all again! :)

Denisse

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jrslick (North Central Kansas, Zone 5B)

I have had a hard time getting zucchini, cucumbers and melons to start growing this year too. But my problem is with the outside plantings. The seed has rotted. I have planted twice and with all the rain we have got, they rotted in the cool soggy soil. I punted and started over 1,000 in 50's and will have to transplant them all in a few weeks. They are growing very nicely in the high tunnel.

Jay

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exmar

BTW, I didn't mean peat pellets, personally don't like them, I use peat pots which you then fill with your personal choice of soil, has worked for years and gives a much bigger plant to set out, and you just bury the whole thing, less root disruption.. Here's a "generic" link.

http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/jiffy-peat-pots/jiffy-peat-pots

Ev

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jean001a(Portland OR 7b)

Drought stress is too little water.
May be wet or moist soil and still be drought stress because of a hot, dry day and/or extra bright day. (Treatment: Rig temporary shade.)

This is not powdery mildew.

And your symptoms don't match that of pix posted by digdirt.

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cobra8888

True, we did have a couple of very hot days in late May.

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bcomplx(z6VA)

Runner beans are actually tender perennials, so they know to take all kinds of weather. They may not bloom strong in the heat, but will remobilize in fall. The blossoms and pods are sensitive to heat, but the plants do okay. You will not want to eat the pods set in NC summer anyway, too hairy and bitter, but everything changes when cool weather comes in the fall. The quality of the young pods improves about a thousand percent in cool weather. Go for it.

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annew21(7b NC)

Thanks for the responses. I'll give it a go.

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wayne_5 zone 6a Central Indiana

Some bean seeds come up 'bald'. Perhaps there was a bean weevil already in the bean.

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zeedman Zone 5 Wisconsin

Bald seedlings can be the result of planting too deeply, especially in heavy soil. I've also noticed that older seed is more susceptible to emerging bald. Starting beans in pots overcomes this issue, but it only makes sense for pole beans, where you get a high yield per plant.

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digdirt2(6b-7a No.Cent. AR HZ8 Sun-35)

< Peppers seemed to tolerate lots of water...>

Just the opposite. Peppers prefer to dry out between watering. Over-watering them leads to yellowing of leaves, leaf drop, root rot, and fruit abortion. And slugs and pepper plants don't play well together.

Dave

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nattydoll(7)

Perfect! So this seems like it'll do better in the ground than in the container. Maybe with less watering, the slugs will go back to the depths from whence they came. lol.

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