As complex hybrids, you are not likely to ever see commercial seed offerings from those varieties. Like many hybrid plants, their seed may be sterile or highly variable.

I'm afraid that you're stuck with buying plants, sorry. Since it will be protected by patent laws, we can't propagate them by cuttings without a license issued by the patent holder.

Hi crysdoug,

As Rhizo said, true black petunias aren't available from seeds. The petunia Sophistica Blackberry is a dark purplish color, available from seeds. But it is not comparable to the patented cultivars you mentioned.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

Yes, ken.....we know that the 'black' flowers are really deep purple. Just so happens that breeders are getting better at lessening the purple reflection.

The point of this thread is to inform our OP that seeds from the black petunias will never be a realistic possibility.

Thanks to all of my fellow gardeners for the quick response! It looks like I will be buying these black (albeit very dark purple) petunias as grownups. The Black Velvet Petunia hybrid has adorned my gardens the last two years. Although sadly expensive when purchased as plants, this variety is indeed impressive as a statement annual. Thanks again!

Crysdoug, tell us how you use it. I've never even tried such a color; my lack of imagination prevents me from picturing anything but black, empty voids if I were to use this plant in my containers or flower beds.

I'd love to hear your first hand experience. Thanks!

Just throwing this out there - A Garden of Marvels by Ruth Kassinger includes a chapter about black petunias and how they came to be. Interesting read should it happen to be available at your local library.

Glad I looked at this thread. I've been trying to find black petunia seeds myself for a few years, ever since I saw a tub of them outside a little backwoods restaurant in our area. I did see some listed in an ER catalog, but it was for a bulk amount - for wholesale dealers. What I've read here makes it more understandable. So, I suppose if I want some, I'll have to buy plants.
Rhizo - I know what you mean about the concept of a black flower in your garden - it's been my reaction, too, just seeing photos. But seeing them "in the flesh" - they were truly breathtaking.

- Alex

Hi Alex,

Fancy running into you here.

" I did see some listed in an ER catalog, but it was for a bulk amount - for wholesale dealers. "

There is serious doubt that true black petunia seeds even exist, much less in wholesale quantities. The patented black petunia plants are grown asexually, from cuttings or tissue culture. And what's an "ER catalog"? (I know its not "obsessive compulsive").

Now I suppose we should breed a black zinnia. Maybe the key is purple + yellow = black ??

ZM

Oh, don't be such a killjoy, Zenman! And you, too, Ken. They may not be really, truly, inky dinky die "black" petunias, but the ones I saw were as close as doesn't matter - at least to me and plenty of others of less so-fist-i-ka-shun. :)

ZM - the company I'm referring to is E&R Seed LLC - they're Amish, I think. Don't have a website, and when they refund you for something, they send cash. I like them.

Anyway, the listing is for the Sophistica Blackberry. Actually, there is a smaller amount of 100 seeds, but the cost was $12.50, so I just sort of blanked it out of my mind. I'm starting to reconsider.

I'm thinking the thing with the black petunias is the same as that with the scabiosa zinnias. There may only be a small percentage that actually are black, just as the scabiosas mostly aren't scabiosa in form. Ya pay your money and ya take your chances. Probably it's part of the reason the listing is "bulk", because they are targeting mainly professional growers who realize the risk. If they offered a packet to individuals like you and me, they might get too many complaints.

- Alex

Hi Alex,

" ...but the ones I saw were as close as doesn't matter - at least to me and plenty of others of less so-fist-i-ka-shun."

I agree with you about the patented Black Cat, Black Velvet, and Black Mamba petunias. As you said to Rhizo, "seeing them "in the flesh" - they were truly breathtaking." But those breathtaking black petunias are simply not available from seed.

"Anyway, the listing is for the Sophistica Blackberry. Actually, there is a smaller amount of 100 seeds, but the cost was $12.50, so I just sort of blanked it out of my mind. I'm starting to reconsider. "

I gave a link for Sophistica Blackberry petunia seeds in the messages above on Mon, Jan 5, 15 at 0:34 to the OP (original poster), crysdoug. That link is to Hazzard's Seeds, who do have a website, and their price is 100 seeds for $11.84, which is slightly less expensive than E&R. But as I said to crysdoug, those Sophistica Blackberry petunias are not a seed source for those near black petunias that are the subject of this message thread.

I respectfully disagree with most of what you said in your last paragraph. I expect that Sophistica Blackberry petunia seeds would produce reasonably uniform dark blackberry purple blooms, none of which would equal the spectacular near-black blooms of the patented asexually propagated varieties with "black" in their names.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

ZM - well, they have to come from a seed sometime. I would agree when one sees a flat of them all together, that these must be asexually propagated. But my reasoning was that the original "mother" must have been a seed from one of these so-called black strains, and the burden is on the grower to find which of the seeds out of the bulk purchase come truest to "black", and then do the asexual propagation themselves. Nowhere in the catalog is it saying the seeds themselves are patented.

But, as always, I appreciate your respectfulness as you shoot me out of the sky.

Yours most humbly,
Alex

Hi Alex,

"But, as always, I appreciate your respectfulness as you shoot me out of the sky. "

And I very much appreciate your appreciating. This could get recursive, with you appreciating my appreciating you appreciating.... we could carry appreciating to the n-th power. Needless to say, I like your attitude.

"...and the burden is on the grower to find which of the seeds out of the bulk purchase come truest to "black", and then do the asexual propagation themselves."

Growers don't do that. Growers purchase seeds in bulk, plant them with reasonably automated systems, and grow them in big greenhouses, also with reasonably automated equipment. There is no plant breeding on the part of the growers. Some growers are licensed to produce asexually grown patented material. But once again, the grower does no plant breeding, just propagation of supplied material from the company that owns the plant patent.

As you said, the original mother must have been a seed. But that occurred in the plant breeding company, the one that does the high tech genetic work, with possible interspecific or intergeneric crosses and possible genetic engineering, to produce remarkable specimens worthy of being plant patented. Since they know the new variety is going to be asexually propagated, it is OK for it to be a sterile triploid, like our bananas. So the plant patenters can make crosses without regard for chromosome numbers. And they can do some very wild gene splicing, like "borrow" a gene from the animal kingdom and splice it into a specimen in the plant kingdom. It can be very high tech, like science fiction, and far beyond anything that a grower might do.

The growers just grow, although some of them have large scale operations, with some impressive automated equipment to help them do that on a large scale, and very efficiently. Even relatively small scale growers don't plant seeds in flats, they have vacuum seed handling machines that plant a whole flat at a time. And small or odd-shaped seeds are purchased as pelleted seeds, to facilitate automatic seed handling.

"Yours most humbly, "

Now you are just making me feel guilty.

ZM

Cat Witching Hour here again, and it's - oh, god - 4:47 AM. Having a bowl of cereal - something repulsively Strawberry; (the cats are having salmon and shrimp), and conceding defeat.

I see what you mean now. I didn't have a complete picture in my head of the magnitude of insanity that would involve a whole industry of asexually produced petunias being shipped around the country (possibly the world).

But, OK. You're probably right. And I hope you do feel guilty.
More humble than you,

- Alex

Chuckle.

As a follow-up, I went to see what I could find in the way of black petunia plants for sale. White Flower Farm has them, and so does Burpees. However, when I read the reviews at Burpees (aside from the mention of plants turning more dark purple-maroonish with age - something I wouldn't really mind), a couple of people mentioned that the plants developed an unattractive yellow striping to the center veins. The Burpees expert answered, saying they were aware of the problem and that it appears to be caused by stress - if one were able to maintain even moisture and temperature, the problem could be controlled. So - guess I am not ordering black petunia plants either - heavy sigh. Oh, well - with the money saved, I can buy something else! :)
- Alex