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| I can't remember: which one? I want to start some cuttings to root. I'm no good at rooting in water, so a few months ago I looked up references here. Now lost or misplaced them. Which is better for this purpose? Vermiculite or perlite? Which is for adding to soil mixes? I bought both. I know perlite is those little white balls that look like styrofoam (I see them all the time in soil mixes but don't really know why they are there), and vermiculite is the brownish crumbly expanded mica. The cuttings will be coleus, geraniums, and sweet potato vine. Miniature ivies too.
I also have the soft "wet" foam for starting cuttings I read about a long time ago: I think that's for geraniums. I'm having memory problems due to a nutritional deficiency so get frustrated when I know I already had the information. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by crazy_gardener ~Z2b~ AB Canada (My Page) on Fri, Apr 6, 07 at 19:38
| You can use straight perlite or vermiculite to root cuttings, or add to soil-less mixes, either one or both will be fine. I myself like to use an already mixed recipe, Sunshine #4 mix, this is formulated with Canadian Sphagnum peat moss, coarse grade perlite, gypsum, Dolomitic lime, and a wetting agent. I also dip my cuttings into a rooting hormone before inserting the cutting into the mix. Sharon |
Here is a link that might be useful: Sunshine Mix
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- Posted by aliska12000 5a (My Page) on Thu, Apr 12, 07 at 21:30
| It doesn't retain moisture well enough. Now I was rooting roses, and was new at it. An expert, since I couldn't get what he used, some Canadian Sun Gold #2? potting soil said to mix peat and pearlite (I used equal parts), mix it well, wet it with hot water the night before, then make sure it's damp when you go to stick your cutting the next day and not be able to squeeze any water out of it. I got a few to root that way, lost some transplanting them. Rooting powder/hormone might help, too. I've been rooting geraniums all winter in just a glass of water, east windows, no powder, change the water if they are slow, have a bunch of them growing like crazy now, many blooming in my sunroom. They are going outside when it gets warmer. This trailing stuff called iresine will root in almost anything. Haven't tried anything else yet. Some rose people use straight coir (you can get it at Petco, it's used to line reptile cages) and the stuff they sell for planters (don't try that), but you need the loose kind, not the fibrous mats of it. Some people stick them in the ground and cover them, some people use sand. Some of us put soda bottles with the bottoms cut out with the caps on to keep them humid, that might work with other plants, too. What are you trying to root? Maybe I'd better go back and read what you wrote. Anyway, a couple got abnormal roots in the vermiculite, I restuck one batch when I brought them inside for the fall in the peat/pearlite, and a couple rooted but the rest languished and died, lost all but one putting them in potting soil. That one I saved by being really careful with the roots, letting them grow bigger, and putting the bottle back over it with the cap off. Rooting under lights probably works better, but I'm not set up for that. |
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- Posted by aliska12000 5a (My Page) on Thu, Apr 12, 07 at 21:36
| I took as long a cutting as I could get that was all green and stripped off the leaves of the part that was going in the water. If they are brown (starting to get woody), they don't like to root, but I finally got one to. |
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| Has anyone tried rooting grape cuttings? |
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| I have not - but I have a friend who says they root easily. |
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| Linnea, I've used both perlite and vermiculite. I prefer the former, but you need to really soak it first and mist it frequently. Perlite actually does hold lots of moisture in those pores. My usual propagation medium, though, is my usual potting mix, which is composed of bark and peat as the primary ingredients (perlite, gypsum, and wetting agent). |
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- Posted by ken_adrian MI z5 (My Page) on Sun, Apr 6, 14 at 19:04
| perlite is used in potting media.. to take up space ... to keep pots light weight ... and for a larger structure ... coleus ... cut some small pieces ... put 6 in one 1 quart square pot.. with moist media .... and cover with a baggie ...should have roots in a week ... for a lot of these things.. the rooting goo... is used for the fungicide in it ... the OTCounter stuff is so weak.. it doesnt do much else... but getting them to avoid rotting helps ... some peeps claim the coarseness of the volcanic version of perlite.. rather than the Styrofoam version.. helps ... ???? . or i am forgetting a name for a different product ... [this is bugging me.. but after 22 months of winter.. or so it seems.. some of this stuff has escaped my orbit.. lol] frankly.. i think the increased humidity of the baggie is more important.. to maintain what leaves there are.. rather than the media the stick is shoved in ... plus.. you cant forget to water it.. since the bag retains much of the water in the pot ... think of it as a humid greenhouse ... so just use any media you have ... and i sugge4st you sterilize it first ... see link .. just fill a pot 1.5 times... dump it in a gallon baggie.. and nuke it until water droplets form on the bag ... close enough ... use it the next day ... this is one way to stall fungus/mildews.. etc... while the plant roots ... to test.. gently tug one.. if it starts to pull out.. psuh back in.. and firm media back around it ... if there is resistance.. or the soil moves.. then there is a root in there ... go figure.. lol ... ken |
Here is a link that might be useful: link
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| I think that it's important to note that petlite does much more than merely take up space and lighten the weight of a potting medium. It's a heck of a lot more useful than that. Perlite holds on to a great deal of readily available water in those little nooks and crannies. Plus, if fertilizer is being used, the dissolved elements will stick around much longer in the nooks and crannies, too. Plus, perhaps the most important benefit that perlite offers is oxygen! Plant roots need oxygen at all times or the cells cease to develop. Roots will die. ? So, we need to think of perlite as an actively beneficial amendment, not just something to lighten the load. I've never seen a plastic version of perlite. There are plastic or styrofoam beads that have been included in some media, and those are pretty useless except to offer some porosity to a peaty mix. Not a bad thing. Perlite is a naturally occurring mineral, a volcanic glass that contains minute quantities of water. That's why it puffs up like popcorn when heated. Unfortunately, perlite is a non-renewable resource. And perlite mining is a destructive industry, as all strip mining is. |
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- Posted by ken_adrian MI z5 (My Page) on Tue, Apr 8, 14 at 10:36
| I've never seen a plastic version of perlite. There are plastic or styrofoam beads that have been included in some media, and those are pretty useless except to offer some porosity to a peaty mix ==>> and that answers why i could come up with a name for it ... rhiz.. as to the coleus ... any reason the baggie thing wont work ... my comment that raised ambient humidity might be more important that what you stick it in ... and the fungicide in rootone ... and keep in mind.. this is a homeowner.. not a pro .. and in my world.. wishing to do it cheap as possible.. w/o spending a fortune on buying all kinds of professional grade stuff ... i have caught myself.. spending 50 bucks on supplies.. to grow 3 dollars worth of stock ... lol.. and then realizing.. that the cost/benefit ratio is a bit out of whack .... try to figure out.. how to use what you have.. we all have some media.. a baggie and a pot ... eh??? ken |
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| Nothing I have ever recommended in these forums are directed towards professionals....not one thing. Nor do I spend a dime on materials other than seed and potting medium and a little soluble fertilizer. No amendments required. I've used the same heating cables for over ten years and my plastic flats and cell packs are reused until they fall apart (years) and then I confiscate them from garden centers, gently used. I'm a penny pincher and the queen of getting the job done in the simplest way possible. I've used a baggie plenty of times, when I'm rooting several cuttings of something to make a nice full pot. I use pencils or wooden skewers to make a four cornered structure to hang the baggie on so that it doesn't touch the cuttings. Novices need to keep a watchful eye out for excess humidity and to allow the cuttings to breathe occasionally. As you know, it's important to know where on the stem to take cuttings and how to prepare them. Coleus is a great plant for newbies to practice on, don't you think? Easy peasy, which makes it rewarding for everybody.
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- Posted by ken_adrian MI z5 (My Page) on Tue, Apr 8, 14 at 19:35
| coleus is the easiest ... the leaves attach at a node ... just below the node.. is where roots will pop out so you .... cut just below that .... snip off the leaves ... dip in rooting goo with fungicide ... and as they say.. STICK IT .. and you leave a set of leaves above ... just a few.. enough to process some light.. but not so many.. that they suck the cutting dry.. before it can root ... on the baggie ... for the newb... put the opening up ... it will surround the plant with humidity.. but allow some to escape ... when you have more experience.. you can encapsulate it fully.. upside down ... i only tried geranium a couple times.. pre WWW... so i was winging it.. and i failed... and gave up ... never had any luck overwintering them ... so by the time i had to buy them.. to take cuttings... i kinda defeated the point of taking cuttings.. lol... vicious circle ... ken
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| Ken! You're sounding like a pro! :-) |
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- Posted by ken_adrian MI z5 (My Page) on Wed, Apr 9, 14 at 9:12
| the method is probably very close to pro.. in the sense that i am trying to address all the variables ... but i try to make it all sound so easy ... so anyone.. at any level ... will give it a try ... with what they have ... nothing used to break my spirit more than investing a wad of money on supplies .. and failing ... then i realized.. it wasnt the specific supplies as much as defining the PLANT CULTURE and perfecting that ... light intensity ... humidity ... and water ... perfect those... and you will raise your odds of winning... much higher than worrying about.. e.g. perlite versus vermiculite ... and when it all boiled down.. and having visited enough greenhouses ... with that damp.. dank.. humid air.. i realized.. that my house.. is not a greenhouse ... and what was missing.. with a forced air furnace.. in MI.. in winter .. and even now.. is humidity ... if my skin is itchy/scratchy .. then most plants in the house are probably not getting enough humidity ... there are of course.. the usual suspects as to thick skinned houseplants that can easily cope with it ... i cant even kill those.. lol ... but here.. we are talking about outdoor plants ... bought inside ... i hope this discussion is accomplishing something .... anyone one want to make some observations??? ... or should rhiz and i just keep talking to each other ...???? below is a pic on a variation on the theme of raising humidity .. lol.. and looky there.. what i found in the barn to root in.. lol ... inside is actually woody shrubs and conifers ... two junipers and a ROSharon .. dont ask .. lol ... who knew that a one gallon baggie fit perfectly over a one gallon milk jug .. i didnt .. its like words meant things ... and i did sterilize everything.. i mean everything, but the brand new baggie.. as once you encapsulate stuff.. some wierd things can start growing .. molds.. mildews.. etc [10% bleach and the microwave for the media... including the plant tag from the friend who sent the ROS .. the kids paint brush i poked holes to stick the plant .. the milk jug .. and the kitchen gloves i used to put it all together .. did i leave anything out of the recollection ... oh.. i shook open the baggie instead of blowing my foul breath into it ... who knows whats floating around the house] .. my goal was operating room clean at the beginning ... but i didnt go buy an autoclave .... ken
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| I found this site looking for information on starting mum cuttings and appreciate all that you've shared. I was thinking of using perlite as that's all I have but after reading this I may mix it with soilless mix and cover with a baggie and see how that works. I've taken several cuttings over the last couple of weeks and used rooting hormone and put them in regular potting mix, all but 2 have shriveled and I'm not sure the 2 left have rooted but the leaves are still nice. Thanks again for the useful tips! |
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| Mums are easy, as long the cutting is prepared properly. They can't be too long, have too many leaves on the stem, and must include nodes. In truth, the medium you choose doesn't matter all that much as long as it is very coarse textured. The reason for that is that the active cell division occurring during root development requires oxygen. In mucky potting mixes, the struggle for O2 can ruin the success of propagation. When preparing your container, fill it with slightly moist medium, then use the spray attachment at your sink to soak it very well. No smushing with your fingers....that compacts the pore spaces. Use a sharpened pencil, dowel, or other such utensil to pre-drill the hole. After sticking the prepared cuttings, water again to make the potting mix seal the cutting rather than rattling around loosely in the hole you've drilled. If you want to share your methods in some detail, perhaps we can troubleshoot the problem. Have you looked at any of the jillions of YouTube videos demonstrating taking cuttings? |
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| Thank you for your input, I have looked at many youtube videos and have taken cutting the length recommended and stripped all but the top leaves making sure there are several nodes that will be covered. I then filled the pots loosely with soil and dipped the cuttings in rooting hormone, used a pencil to make holes then placed the cuttings into them. I did gently firm the soil around the cuttings then watered from the bottom to saturate them. I took more cuttings this morning from the Mt. Shasta plant, they are now in a cup with a little water while I decide the best way to plant them. It sounds like I may have compacted the soil too much and may need to mix the soil and perlite half and half? I'm certainly open to suggestions, thanks! |
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| Why would you water from the bottom? Watering fron the top brings OXYGENATED water into the container, flushing out the stale air from the soil pores. You see, those rapidly dividing cells also expel (respire) carbon dioxide. The soil pores must contain oxygen and water. We don't want those stagnant gases building up in our propagation containers. Using your fingers to firm the mix is only a problem if it is too mucky, fine textured. A coarse medium can take it. I'm all for mixing a bunch of perlite into your potting medium. How much depends on the consistency. Good for you for doing your homework with youtube! |
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| I read on a begonia site, that when rooting up cuttings, groups of cuttings in a single container will work better than a single cutting. That the stems release a natural "rooting hormones" as they try to re grow, and that by having them clustered in a group in a small container, it increases those hormones available to all of the cuttings. Do you know if this is true with all plants? Last year I used clamshell boxes from the grocery store and clustered 20-30 little petunia cuttings in them. I used straight pearlite, and non of the powdered rooting hormone and it worked well - at least a 3/4 success rate. |
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| Rhizo, I've always bottom watered pots when starting seeds so they don't get washed away and just automatically did that with cuttings too but now will water from the top, thanks for that heads up! Mandolls, I usually put several cuttings in 4 in. pots to start them but didn't know of the release of natural rooting hormones as they re grow, very good to know. I've started cuttings successfully in straight vermiculite but all I have now is perlite. Thanks for the info, all good to know. |
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| Sundrop, as long as your containers have been thoroughly pre-soaked, you can use a plant mister to water seeds and new cuttings. That way, you'll never need have the fear of dislodging anything. |
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| rhizo, thanks for that suggestion, I'll check out that mister. |
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- Posted by runswithscissors MT 4/5 (My Page) on Thu, Apr 17, 14 at 16:35
| You've been given so much info, but wanted to add my 2 cents, too. Here is a method that gives me at least 90% success rate:
I mix one part potting mix and 3 parts perelite. I dip the stem ends in Clonex (my favorite rooting hormone) and then moisten the soil. This is the only time I need to water. Keeping the little pots filled with water is plenty enough humidity in the box. I lift the lid off during the day and close it at night. Within 3 weeks most everything is growing roots. You'll notice the soil looks very moist on top, but when you fork out the plants, the soil underneath is just "barely moist" -- perfect for growing roots. |
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