Once again, the previous part of this ongoing series, It can be fun to breed your own zinnias - Part 10, is becoming rather long and slow to load, so we are continuing the series here.

The same guidelines apply here. Anything remotely related to zinnias is fine and, as a courtesy to readers with smaller monitors, try to keep the pictures posted no wider than 986 pixels.

This is a picture taken today of some of my current "third wave" hybrid zinnia seedlings.

They are part of the third generation of zinnias since I started my indoor zinnias here in Kansas back in last December. Many of these "third waves" are due to be repotted, but some need to grow a bit more to get a more structurally sound root "ball". I referred to it as a root "ball", but it is more like a root "cube" in those square 2½-inch pots. I am still doing some work in my outdoors zinnia garden, where it hit 100 in the shade today. But I have to admit that right now I prefer to garden in the comfort of our air conditioning.

ZM

JG, it is so nice to see the different shapes of scabiosa children. Knowing that so many variations can occurr is a boost of motivation for me as I don't like the "typical" scale-type flowers of zinnia.

The Candy Mix is interesting too. I like the one on the lower left.

This is a recent scabiosa hybrid. It's not particularly good in my view, because the guard petals are so widely spaced. They are essentially cactus flowered petals, which tend to be narrow.

A disadvantage of recombinant scabiosa flowered zinnias is that so many of them are either single or off-type, like this one. However, they are frequently different from the commercial strains and occasionally that can be an advantage, when they are bigger or in some other regards better.

ZM

I like that orange daisy-scabious combination flower you have just shown! A bouquet of flowers of that form in different colors could be attractive, I think!

Your indoor garden zinnias look so flawless and healthy. I can well understand your desire to work with them in air conditioning...

I selfed my zinnia last year that had leaves with rippled edges, but none of the seeds germinated. Did you get any offspring from your similar plant?

I have four offspring from July Bonnet blooming now. I will say up front that three of these flowers are simply red whirligig types with magenta centers and lots of yellow disk flowers, so I won't show them. But, here is July Bonnet:

and here is the one F1 that has some resemblance:

Other flowers today include "Spoonigig":

a Cook Gardens scabiosa, in coral:

and, I guess, a rogue plant coming from either Enchantress or Esquisite seed, both of which (usually) come in rose or red:

JG

Well, I guess we are all disappointed that July Bonnet didn't reappear, but I guess it had a delicate genetic combination that was rather improbable. But now we know that zinnias can produce July Bonnets and, if they can do it once, they can do it again, and in many different variations. That F1 from July Bonnet looks promising and I would try to get a high seed yield from it. I think there are all kinds of surprises hidden in the spirals of zinnia DNA that are yet to appear. Presumably all of the seeds that came from July Bonnet have at least some July Bonnet genes, and it might be worthwhile to intercross them to get some recombinations.

Your "Spoonigig" is worthy of becoming a zinnia strain. That is a unique look that would make great looking bouquets, and look good in the landscape as well.

I like the coloration on your Cook's Garden coral scabiosa flowered specimen. There is an interesting two-toned effect there. That is more evidence that Cook's Garden has their own strain of scabiosa flowered zinnias. I plan to send Cook's a seed order.

ZM

I take it there are more 'July Bonnet' children still to bloom. If so, I'm hopeful. As ZM said, selfing or crossing between offspring can bring it about. A key toward the goal is careful observation and labeling/tracking. We're rooting for you!

JG mentioned my volunteers. I was surprised to have any at all because I thought I had harvested and packaged every single seedhead from '08. When most came up 1 to 4 feet from last year's gardens, I realized these are from those the goldfinches tore into. I sure didn't feel they were being helpful at the time.

I'm still trying to get a photo of my branching seedling, but short of standing on my head, I don't see how without disturbing plants around it.

JG, it is interesting that your July Bonnet offspring include the one with the color break on similar colored petals. In trying to recapture the characteristics of July Bonnet, I would try to concentrate the gene pool by selfing and maybe some sibling crosses. Out crossing at this point would defeat your purpose in my opinion. Your Spoonigig certainly has more pronounced bicolor pattern than I've seen in my Whirligigs.

I've had a few interesting colors in my Cook's Garden Scabiosas also. This is probably the closest one to coral I've got. All my zinnias took a hit yesterday as we had a particularly severe thunderstorm come through in the afternoon, It did break the heat and provide some much needed moisture though.

This partial scabiosa flower has matured into an interesting color.

I've noticed that many of the Cooks mix tend to concentrate the pink/red pigment to the outer edges of the petals as they mature. I've noticed that many of the oranges show this as well, but I do not see it in the pure yellows...

Arlan

It has been very hot, up to one hundred degrees. And, today I saw the first of the Japanese beetles ;-(. After this first year that I've bred zinnias, I am realizing we are dealing with an extremely complex set of genetics! As far as scabiosas go, who knows what genes must be present to get that form? The breeders don't yet have that nailed down. I imagine there are a number of hybrid traits that must be present to obtain these flowers!

Anyway, it's a source of excitement to go into the garden every day and see what may be happening. Today, I had three new flowers, the Queen Red Lime, a Vesey's Zigzag, and another pretty Candy Mix:

And, something really strange has happened. I showed earlier the orange scabious-flowered F1 offspring that arose from the red scabious plant. That same plant now has another flower that has a completely different color! I'll try and get a picture here of that plant as soon as the second flower opens up a little more. Last year, I had a zinnia that had a very full multi-petalled flower and a daisy-like flower on the same plant, but this new event is even stranger.

With respect to July Bonnet offspring, I have about 35 more plants to look at once they bloom. Who knows what will happen? Some of the red blooms I have from that selfed plant that I thought were rather common may well have more than what I've seen so far, too. More on that later!

We look forward to seeing your branched seedling, HC..

JG

That was an interesting comment on the different shades seen in the Cook's Garden scabiosas. I will be observing the ones from Cook's for that characterisitic...I have seen it in some. That kind of coloring in a flower I think could be desirable. One of my favorite irises, 'Honky Tonk Blues' has many tones and shades of blue in the flower that make it look like it came out of a painting, and I really like that effect.

As your Whirligigs (or ZigZags or Carousels) continue to bloom, you will be amazed at the variation you see. Probably you read where they are thought possibly to be interspecific hybrids between violaceae (or elegans) and haageana plants. Last year, I grew my haageanas, tenuifolias, angustifolias, peruvianas, violaceae, and marylandicas all in pretty close quarters, but I separated out the seed with respect to species, except for the violaceae, and my thought is, if interspecific crosses can happen it nature, I gave it at least a small shot, particularly in view of all the bees and other insects we have here. From all of those seeds from the "microgarden", only the peruvianas have started to bloom thus far.

JG

I'm attracted to the overall effect the repetetive petal curling on the Zigzag you shared. It is always interesting to see the overall effect a small elemental change that is repeated can make.

I'm sure you are just beginning your fun with the July Bonnet grow out! Sounds like the majority is yet to come.

To continue the "maturing flower" pigment discussion, I've been watching some of the changes in my Persian Carpets as they age. One is especially dramatic. These flowers come from a single plant and show the huge change in look as it ages. I've posted a more complete picture series in my blog, addressed below.

I'll be selfing this plant.... - Arlan

I believe you have shared your experiences of germinating immature / green seed. As I recall you shared that you use something to magnify the flower during your inspection as you determine if a flower's seed is mature enough to germinate.

Could you share a bit more about what you use as a guidline to determine if seed is mature enough to harvest and germinate. I plucked this ray seed from my first Zowie flower this afternoon, just to see what it looked like and see if I might try your generation acceleration technique. It is plump and firm, but I'm thinking this is too green, but have nothing to really guide me.

Do the embryos need to be excised first? Are there germination inhibitors present that need to be dealt with?

If you've covered this before, or have some references, could you point me to the discussion?

Lots of questions! Thanks - Arlan

The pattern that your Persian Carpet flower attained with age is really interesting! I've seen flowers get lighter, but I don't remember observing the opposite. I think what you are seeing is somewhat similar to what I just saw on the red scabious F-1 plant mentioned earlier. I had the orange scabious flower, then a second, bright yellow bud opened on the same plant. As it became larger, it seemed to maintain that color. However, when I went out this evening to document the effect, I could see that the newer flower was darkening with age.

Funny, though, I don't recall the first flower as starting out as yellow! I guess this flower of mine also has red pigmentation becoming more intense with age in order to change a yellow flower to an orange one. The emerging pattern you are seeing is much more exciting!

The July Bonnet F1 flowers that are red with magenta centers are developing little central petals like the mother plant had--maybe not as many or the same color--that remains to be seen!

JG

" As I recall you shared that you use something to magnify the flower during your inspection as you determine if a flower's seed is mature enough to germinate. "

I use Bausch & Lomb head mounted magnifiers. They come with 6-inch, 8-inch and 12-inch focal-length lenses. I use the 12-inch lens most of the time, not just to pick out green seeds, but to pollinate, and look for pests like aphids and thrips. I use them several times a week, and wouldn't want to be without them.

"Could you share a bit more about what you use as a guideline to determine if seed is mature enough to harvest and germinate."

I look to see if the seed appears to be "fat" with a sizable embryo inside. Seeds that are nearly two dimensional, regardless of their size, are empty and don't have a chance of germinating. There are two such empty green seeds in this picture:

"Do the embryos need to be excised first? Are there germination inhibitors present that need to be dealt with?"

The seed coat of a green seed is alive and hence impervious to water. If you plant it with the green seed coat intact, the seed coat has to die first to become pervious to water, and that can delay the germination on the order of two weeks. There have been times when I was gathering green seeds outdoors and planting them in beds outdoors when I just skipped doing anything special and let the seeds take their time germinating, since they were still coming up before they would if I waited for the seeds to mature to a brown seedhead before gathering and planting them.

Indoors I usually surgically "scarify" the green seeds to open up the green seedcoat in some way to expose the embryo to moisture. There are several techniques for doing this:

You can remove and plant the naked embryo, and I have done that successfully, but it is sufficient just to expose the embryo to water in some way. The easiest way for me is to use an X-Acto knife to pull one of the side "wings" away. Some seeds will allow you to split the petal with your thumbnails and gently pull the petal apart to open a crack in the central area of the seedcoat. Or you can use a knife to help you do that. Sometimes I shave off the midrib (as is being done in the picture) to give the embryo access to water. All of the techniques work for me. I do water my germinating medium with a mixture composed of two parts of weak soluble nutrients (1/2 teaspoon per gallon) and one part of Physan 20 solution (1½ teaspoons per gallon). You could probably get away with not using the Physan 20, but I think I get better results with it. I worry about wholly exposed embryos or partially exposed embryos. In the future I plan to experiment with Gibberellic Acid as a germination stimulant. That will be a bit ironic, because when the seedlings are a few weeks old, I use Plant Growth Regulators on the seedlings and the PGRs suppress gibberellins. Oh well.

The green seed in your picture looks a little immature, but the embryo may be large enough to germinate. I have gotten germination from some very green green seeds. That is one great looking petal in your picture. I can't get over that arrangement of three colors. Whirligigs have their yellows at the petal tips.

ZM

Thanks so much for taking the time to put that together. It is clear, concise and completely practical for those wishing to try this technique. You provide an invaluable service to us all by sharing your research, experience and methods. Thanks again. I believe this will save me much time in seeing the next generation. - Arlan

Thanks for the illustrated explanation--wonderful description, once again.

JG

It looks like your red July Bonnet F1 is putting out some new petals. It will be interesting to see how that develops. Like you, I have had zinnias on side branches be significantly different. So much so, if fact, that I still wonder if zinnia plants are genetically uniform.

ZM

Correction: ...So much so, in fact...

I wish we could edit these messages after they are posted.

ZM

ZM, not being able to edit after posting is a pain, especially for me, who never took lessons in typing! And for me, who gets impatient with respect to proofreading...

I think there are factors that may mimic, or actually be caused by, genetic instability in zinnias. Certain signals from the environment may elicit specific responses from the genes, or there may be even something that actually disrupts the genes like transposable elements. It makes it difficult to know what to expect from particular crosses--when considering both parent and offspring.. The ability to respond to various environmental signals may change as well as the effect of transposable elements from one generation to the next.

We were talking some about pigmentation changes upon maturation. Another example: these little petals in the middle of this flower (posted 22:23 June 26) were yellow yesterday--it seems as they mature, they change from yellow to red! Now there are new yellow petals emerging. No doubt, tomorrow thay will be red.

JG

Thanks to 'Candy Mix' I now have a red scabious zinnia once again for breeding purposes..

And, the "marigold-type" zinnia continues to fill out..

Not so much rain in the last days, but I think when we get it, there are hundreds of buds in the garden that are ready to bloom. Can't wait!

JG

Today a new whirligig appeared with a distinct white center. I've had light pink in the center before and a very little white in whirligigs, but this is a new one for me..

JG

I wonder if zinnias, like the Japanese Morning Glories I'm more familiar with, have certain stable genetic characteristics that change with changing conditions and other unstable genetic characteristics that can switch back and forth with varying frequency. I imagine that the "candy stripe" flower color pattern in zinnias is created by a similar mechanism of transposable elements found in the JMG's. JMG's have a stable gene for turning the filiment/anthers and styles/stigmas into petal like structures, causing the flower to be semi-double and sterile. It is variable in its expression. Often the first flowers of the season are highly petalloid while later in the season single fertile flowers are produced. I do not believe that the triggers for this are understood.

JG, your last Whirligig with the white center is interesting. It demonstrates very clearly the way the color pattern of the typical bicolor of the Whirligigs is created. It has the yellow carotenoid pigments absent in the center and distributed to an outer broad band. With the red/violet pigments absent, the center is left white and the outside yellow. If the red/violet anthocyanidins were present and evenly distributed, the center would be the violet we associate with the bicolor and the outer band would be orangish or scarlet, depending on the shade of the pigments. If the anthocyanidins also have a distribution pattern, more complex color patterns are possible. Take the Zowie petal with the immature seed I showed earlier in this thread, it shows an orange outer band, yellow mid band and violet center band. If you took JG's white center yellow Whirligig and applied anthocyanidins only to the center and a narrow outer band, you could get something very similar to this Zowie petal.....

I'll share my favorite atypical Persian Carpet so far this year. This picture was taken last evening. I really like the combination of deep teeth and pinched petal tip causing the center tooth to rise vertically. Its structure and coloration remind me of flames. This plant has a future with me...! - Arlan

Do you think this also explains the swizzle series? That is, swizzle and zowie have the same mechanism except difference in pigments?

And do we know whether there is one gene that controls the bicolor effect (zinnia or JMG)?

"However, I'm wondering if any of you have experienced a zinnia seedling like this before."

I have never seen a zinnia plant split into three apparently "main" stems just above the seed leaves like that specimen. I would suggest taking care of it and saving as many seeds as you can, to see if the progeny also have some interesting plant forms. Three-stemmed zinnias could have a nice, bushy look.

ZM

That white-centered Whirligig has a lot of potential. Among other things, I would want to cross it with a giant white cactus flowered specimen. It has a great color effect as is. Now all it needs is a more spectacular flower form.

Your rose-colored "marigold-type" is developing into quite a specimen. Definitely a breeder in my view. You're getting some really nice specimens.

ZM

HC, your 3-pronged seedling is really interesting! In my own plants, I've noticed that when the bud for the first true leaves is disrupted in some way, the seedlings will become two-branched at that point to form an overall "Y" shape. But it looks that you really have something different, in fact a"triton-" or "psi-" seedling. I wonder if that is a heriditary trait?

Arlan, you definitely have something unique in that Persian Carpet! It would be really great if you could enlarge that form! It hardly looks like a zinnia! The pinched petal tips are different.

I think the stamens and pistils in flowers are simply modified petals, whose development is guided by particular genes in the plant (I should review old courses here)....anyway, when something goes wrong with the usual developmental pattern that a flower takes on, you get funny structures happening. I wonder if that didn't happen in the flower that I posted on Sat, Jun 27, 09 at 13:29? Petals are showing up where normally disc flowers would be?

And, the color pattern seen in whirligigs is also fun to observe, as you said. But,that pattern can be disrupted when abnormal factors are present. For example, I have now
a funny flower where that has happened. You can see the underlying whirligig colors, but they surely have become disordered!

ZM, you are right about getting those yellow and white colors of the whirligig into a cactus zinnia! That would make a sharp flower! I will try to do that--who knows what will happen? My cactus zinnias seem to be behind all the rest in blooming--water would help, but I do hope I get some nice white (potential parents) here. By the way, we haven't seen any of your flowers lately....

JG

Do you think this also explains the swizzle series? That is, swizzle and zowie have the same mechanism except difference in pigments?

I really don't know the genetic mechanisms here, I'm just speculating as to how it could work. Most of the colors we see in plants and flowers are the result of the combinations of the pigments they produce. The genetic control of whether or not a pigment is even present is one. Then there all the various ways the synthesis of these pigments gets altered causing different values, shades and hues. Combine this with multiple pigments, different distribution patterns for each pigment and it gets complex! From observation, I think one could say that the Swizzle and Zowie zinnias have much in common with the Whirligigs in their color patterning. It looks like the main difference between the Scarlet and Yellow Swizzle and the Cherry and Ivory Swizzle is simply the presence or absence of the yellow pigment. I'm growing both and there also seems to be a little bit of difference in the plant form between the ones in my garden.

I don't know how many genes are invloved in the bi-color patterning in zinnias. In JMG, there are single genes that control the presence of absence of each of several different color patterns including the white throat, white margin, etc. Then there are multiple genes that modify the expression of these and others. The JMG has been extensively studied genetically and the information is available on the internet for those who wish to find it. I'm still looking for similar detailed information on zinnias, but don't have access to the academic literature. Chapter 12 shares some of the very basics, but not the details. I would not be surprised if zinnias also have similar types of genes, single and multiple, controlling the patterns we see.

JG, your interesting broken color Whirligig looks like it could be related to the color break pattern visible in your July Bonnet.....

After the inspiration by what ZM has accomplished and shared, I've ventured into trying to germinate some immature seed. I have excised the embryos like ZM showed and placed the embryos in folded moist filter paper and placed them in a ziplock bag. This way I can peek every day or two to see if anything is going on. Here is a Swizzle F2 embryo that just germinated after two and a half days. I planted it in "sterile" growing medium to see if I can get it to continue growing. Now is when I could use the Physan 20..... - Arlan

That photo is inspirational on so many levels. It borders on a microscopic view, with the tiny root hairs starting to show. Amazing! It looks like a little creature from outer space. I think you do need some Physan 20. I hope that little F2 guy makes it. No telling what it will look like. Gadzooks! That makes me start thinking about the uses of tissue culture with zinnias.

ZM

What a beautiful close-up of a zinnia "preemie!" I think we all want to follow its progress, so keep us posted there.
Again, I really like that Persian Carpet you have--that's so interesting and pretty. Starting early embryos on that one will be a challenge!

ZM, once again, thanks for illustrating your technique. I may be trying it in the next few weeks.

There's probably other literature out there on zinnias, but the closest I saw that followed putative gene action was
"Inheritance of Ray Floret Color in Zinnia angustifolia HBK and Z. elegans Jacq.," J. of Heredity, 79 (4):289-293, 1988. And I think that was pretty much the tip of the iceberg of what there could be. There has been extensive molecular work that has shown so much more in other flowers.
Often there are genes, though, that all flowers share, and patterns of inheritance may be similar, as Arlan says. The morning glory literature may shed some light on what we are seeing!

The only tissue culture I have been acquainted with in zinnias has been that of suspension cell cultures (many free cells in a flask) to study development of xylem cells. But I can see how cloning many plants of a favorite would be very helpful in breeding practices. ZM, you do that pretty frequently with your cuttings!

I have a thirty foot row of zinnias I started from seeds of what I thought were very good examples of scabious zinnias in last year's garden..I did not cross them, but let them mix at random with all the other kinds of zinnias in the garden, just to see the potential of their offspring. I have to say that the F1s are very disappointing--all very common-looking zinnias. There are maybe one or two scabious or otherwise interesting offspring from the whole bunch!

I'm seeing a few more of those zinnias with "breaks" (stripes in the background pigment). I think that those are interesting, but I kind of want to keep them under control--I'm not sure what causes that pattern!

Dave, what flowers do you have now? HC, let us know how your 3-pronged plant is doing...

JG

"...I have to say that the F1s are very disappointing--all very common-looking zinnias."

The scabious characteristics are somewhat fleeting and my experience with the commercial strains was that only about one in twenty of the out-of-the-seed-packet plants are really "on-type". The scabiosa x giant zinnia F2s are even more disappointing. But if you grow a lot of them, every now and then you get something that makes it all worthwhile. The scabiosas are still my primary activity, with bicolors and spider flowers also very interesting to me. So far my interspecies crosses have all failed to yield viable seeds. If I could get those scabiosa florets really large, I think I could get a whole new kind of zinnias. Of course, there are other lines of approach that could be just as promising. Arlan has renewed my interest in the Persian Carpets. In the future I will be selecting and crossing Persian Carpets with each other. Arlan has apparently had a lot of "beginners luck" with Persian Carpets. I have grown them before, but never had some of the spectacular specimens that he has pictured here and in his blog.

"I'm seeing a few more of those zinnias with "breaks" (stripes in the background pigment). I think that those are interesting, but I kind of want to keep them under control--I'm not sure what causes that pattern!"

Me either. It's a virus in Tulips. Last year, when I grew hundreds of Zig Zags and Whirligigs, I had several such odd mutants. I wouldn't want my whole zinnia patch to look like that. I even stopped growing the striped zinnias for the same reason. I was alarmed when some stripes showed up in one of my hybrids that were apparently cross-pollinated by bees. Apparently the stripes do have the ability to proliferate.

"The only tissue culture I have been acquainted with in zinnias has been that of suspension cell cultures (many free cells in a flask) to study development of xylem cells."

I was surprised to learn that Zinnias have been used in several classic tissue culture experiments, although apparently none were for the purpose of commercial propagation. But I think there are several possibilities for using tissue culture in the zinnia hobby. I have started accumulating a library on the subject. I plan to "ease into it" with some experiments with very small cuttings that don't use a lot of the parent plant for the explants.

Right now I need to do some more re-potting and transplanting. This hobby can really keep you busy. More later.

ZM

Differentiating zinnia xylem cells are studied in tissue culture as they mature from living cells to the dead, hollow elements of the vascular system that transport water and minerals. This process and its associated genes are thought to act as a model for programmed cell death, or apoptosis. If the responsible genes and their regulation can be identified and understood, it may help us better see how animal development is carried out through (possibly)analogous means. An example: the dying away of tissue between embryonic toes and fingers to create the individual digits. Genes responsible for apoptosis could also potentially be used as a tool to control and kill cancer cells. The above are general statements with respect to importance of zinnia cells in culture..

I can see how fusion of cultured embryonic cells, then regeneration of plants, could help us create poyploids of the same species, or hybrids between species. Tough work!

Although my 2008 scabious zinnias gave rise to few scabious flowers after open pollination, I could see that their pollen had travelled about the garden last year.
I had one flower I called "Loopy" that I liked because of its appearance as it aged:

One of its seeds produced this flower:

Not much resemblance!

Today, I saw this small "super-toothy" flower here:

JG

JG wrote: Dave, what flowers do you have now?

JG, I have mainly zinnias for this year, and a little daylilies, verbena, phlox. For hybridizing, I am also trying daylilies. I wanted to do Chinese Aster but it is a little late now for this year.

None of my zinnias have started blooming. I am late again but I am new, so there is a lot to learn in handling the garden and yard works. Checking my record, I see that my zinnias were started about 5 weeks ago, so it shouldn't be much longer, but they seem to be slow also probably because we have a cool/cold spring. They are still short.

I'm pleased with the 3-pronged. All three parts seemed equal in the beginning, and I wondered how it would hold itself upright. I've realized that the center prong has branched at right angles to the other two. It seems for now that I could not ask for better in terms of balance.

Much applause for the little "preemie" and your ultra-close-up photos. This still has an "outer space" look. Just out of curiosity, what kind of medium are you growing it in?

ZM

I use a mix called "MetroMix 300" by SunGro Horticulture of Bellevue, WA. I get it from my local "Feed Store." It is 30-40% Vermiculite, bark, peat moss, perlite, bark ash and dolomite lime....per the label. I've used it for a couple years for seed starting and really like it. - Arlan

Do I have to be concerned? Should I do anything?

TIA!

I've never seen zinnias look like that. I suspect a pest of some sort. I guess if it is only 3 or 4 plants out of a hundred, you could just pull out and destroy those plants or put them in the garbage. On the other hand, it might be a good idea to use them to diagnose the problem in case the problem spreads to other zinnias. I can't tell for sure, but I think I can see some small aphids on the stem. Are those leaves concealing pests such as aphids or thrips? Use a strong magnifying glass to see if you can find the cause.

ZM

Arlan, your little Swizzle descendent is progressing quickly! I look forward to seeing its flowers.

Dave, I hope you can figure out the cause of your zinnia affliction. I would be tempted to open those leaves that have folded up to see if there is anything inside. Let us know what you may find.

We finally got rain after a week and a half dry spell, and hopefully now my cactus zinnias and others will start to bloom.

A couple of somewhat interesting flowers now....first, a little whirligig-not terribly remarkable, except its center appears almost blue.

And, I have a nice double flower that I would like to have more of!

JG

Today I pulled one out. Opened the leaves too and didn't find anything unusual. And the roots look fine too. I don't if you guys see anything about/on it. Anyway, it is ok. Life can be a mystery sometimes.

JG, I like your whirligig. I am glad I planted some this year.

The upper leaves look almost like they had been wilted by a big torch or engine exhaust. Was a gas engine used in their vicinity? Is an air conditioner nearby?

Do you know if anyone used any herbicide nearby? Herbicide drift might be an explanation, only you would think that would affect more than just a few zinnia plants. The stem seems to be intact, so we can rule out stem rot. The root system looks somewhat sparse, although finer roots could have been lost when you pulled the zinnia plant up. Now I am wondering if it could be a bacterial or viral infection.

ZM

Occasionally, one of my zinnias will wilt near the top, somewhat like yours, and because so few plants have done that, it has been of no concern to me. I tried to see what it might be online, and I found this nice reference on zinnias from Kansas State. I'm going to place the website directly here, as the html-created link I made lead to forbidden access.

http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/library/hort2/mf1079.pdf

I wonder if stem miners or nematodes may have caused the problem?

JG

Dave, I fully expected you to find a spider's web or cocoon inside your wilted plant. Is it possible a critter is urinating in your garden? or could fertilizer have spilled onto it?

Thanks much for the link to the ZINNIAS Commercial Specialty Cut Flower Production document. I printed the whole 8-page document out for ready reference, and included the link here for convenient access, at least for some browsers. It has a lot more information than most zinnia websites, partly because it is for commercial cut flower producers. Manhattan Kansas is only about 110 miles from here in Wellsville. I'm always looking for more zinnia information, so the link is much appreciated.

ZM

Today I see from this parent of last year, which was open-pollinated:

this F1 flower:

It's interesting to me because it's the first tubular-petalled zinnia I've seen in the garden. ZM, I know you've had flowers with similar form.

I crossed the below flowers last summer, with the white cactus being the female parent:

X

The first F1 flower I am seeing from this cross is this:

I want to further examine the plant to see what similarities it has to its haageana parent. On brief observation, the leaves and plant in whole looks like a violaceae.

I have several short rows now of Queen Red Limes, the dusky rose-lime zinnias I purchased from Johnny's. I notice that roughly one out of twenty plants has flowers that are a shade of solid red.

JG

There is some super exciting stuff in your message today! For one thing, the first successful Z. haageana x Z. violacea cross in this whole message thread. Even though it looks like a Whirligig, it is potentially very different. I hope you will be able to save a lot of seeds from that. Among other things, I would be tempted to try some backcrosses to Persian Carpets to get a more Haageana-like look. I need to plant some Persian Carpets.

Your implied possible relation between the scabiosa flower form and the tubular petalled flower form is also new, and encouraging. I had never suspected such a relation, but in view of your result, there is a logic to it. Last year, while performing surgery on tubular petals to expose their stigmas to cross pollination, I found modified anthers in the tube. That was a big surprise. Previously I had supposed that the tubular petal strain would not survive in a field-grown or garden-grown environment, because their stigmas were buried in the tubes. But if the tubulars had the ability to self themselves, that would make the strain much more practical.

I noticed some mildew in my outdoors garden today (it is fairly shady), so I dragged my sprayer out of the basement and sprayed a foliar feed that included some Physan 20 this evening. That was my first foliar feed here in Kansas. I may follow that with a GreenCure spray tomorrow. I have been contemplating foliar feeding with sugar as a possible solution to my shade problem.

ZM

I am still growing some single zinnias that I am keeping around only for butterfly food, such as this one:

For some reason we don't have many butterflies or bees here in this part of Kansas. We had lots of them in Maine. When I need the garden space for a better zinnia, I will discard the single. Even before that, the zinnia cage will get moved to a newer transplant. I need to make some more zinnia cages.

ZM

With respect to the violaceae-haageana hybrid I have, my plans are much as you suggested. I am going to take pollen from a plant similar to the male parent of this hybrid (with the very dark pigment on the petals) so that I can get a darker flower, hopefully. Last year it had crossed my mind that you could take a whirligig with a preferred color pattern, and cross it with a haageana plant. Essentially, you would be skipping the step I took in getting the hybrid in the first place. I may also try that this year. The only thing may be that the whirligigs grown from commercial seed may have more violaceae genes in them than a plant you know for sure is a first generation hybrid.

When you look closely at a lot of scabious flowers, you can see that many of the central florets are tubular. That red flower I got is the only fully tubular flower I have gotten, but some of the other progeny have only one or two tubular petals on the entire flower.

I have never tried foliar feeding, but I can see how it would help in the densely planted rows I have. Despite the flower you showed that is to be butterfly food, I still see some of the characteristics you are looking for--thin, widely-spaced petals.

Here is "Curligig," yet another variation on a whirligig:

JG

Your "Curligig" is actually quite a pretty flower, despite being single. You are getting some great variations in zinnias.

I do like long, narrow petals and, in some flowers, I think the long thin petals give the flower an aster flowered look. That is somewhat the effect in this specimen:

Once again, dappled sun affects this picture. The petals near the 4-o'clock position aren't really yellow; that is just the effect of a little sunbeam.

I'm definitely going to experiment more with crosses between Haageana and Violacea. Thanks to your encouraging results and Arlan's interesting specimens, I think I will be planting a fall crop of Persian Carpets soon.

By the time I got around to ordering the Queen Red Limes from Johnny's, they were out of stock. You might get some interesting hybrids using them.

ZM

Your orange flower has a nice look, both in color and form, and I like the way the chaffy scales are just hidden by the tiny central petals. Also, the slightly curled petals at the ends...

Now I'm finding the Queen Red Lime plants also include individuals with green flowers.. The interesting thing is that the green flowers seem to be becoming white in the center as they mature:

These possibly could give rise to offspring with darker-pigmented ends on petals.

Speaking of that, today I found a really different flower among the offspring of last year's scabious and random-pollinated flowers. It doesn't have good form by a long shot, but the color scheme is something I've not yet seen here:

I'm thinking, in view of Arlan's Fri, Jun 26, 09 15:56 post on the developing Persian Carpet color pattern, that the male parent of this flower may well be a Persian Carpet!
Nonetheless, I'm anxious to see what the fellow flowers look like on this plant to see if expression of these colors is uniform in the plant.

JG

Your green variant of Queen Red Lime does seem to have green petals with white bases. It has interesting possibilities for crossing with large white cactus flowered zinnias.

Your red-based-lemon specimen is unique. There are lots of possible ways to use that in crosses.

This picture is one of my current echinacea flowered specimens out in the garden.

A lot of the scabiosas and scabiosa hybrids have the central florets pretty much the same color as the guard petals, but this one has strawberry florets and baby pink guard petals, and I really like it that it has two different colors. It's definitely a breeder for me, and I will give it special attention. I didn't notice the tiny ants in the florets until after I processed the picture.

Yesterday we were narrowly missed by a dramatic microburst event only a few miles away down I35 in Ottawa Kansas. It had winds high enough to turn over 18-wheelers. Thunderstorms are predicted here for the next several days. That kind of worries me, since a lot of my breeders are outside and exposed to the elements. I got some more concrete re-mesh wire today to make some more zinnia cages, to give more of my zinnias protection from windy weather. I saw a strange weird looking dog wondering through my zinnia patch yesterday, and I was glad for the zinnia cages that were deployed.

ZM

The two colors in the echinacacea-type zinnia is really attractive, especially the particular shades of red and pink
you have there. You're right in that it's very seldom that you see different and coordinating colors in rays and florets. It will be interesting to see how those features translate to the offspring.

By the way, besides ants, I see tiny webs on your flower. Someone in the garden may be thinking of making a meal of those ants!

I saw a similar situation lately when a nymph form of an assassin bug stalked a Japanaese beetle (go bug!)

Finally, the cactus zinnias have started to bloom here. This is one from HPSeeds:

It's interesting how some of the scabious zinnias have little points at the tips of their petals.

JG

I have also noticed the tiny webs on my zinnias, but haven't seen the spiders that leave them. Your first picture is a good capture of insect life. You are a natural naturalist. I am sure you are aware that, if you printed out your pictures, you could make a great scrapbook. And, who knows? Maybe a book. I have been thinking of making a scrapbook as a sort of garden journal with pictures. (But not a book.)

Your yellow cactus flowered specimen looks like a good female breeder, that you could pollinate with some of your more unusual specimens.

That white scabiosa with pointed guard petals is great. It has a good classic look. I'm not sure whether it is Grecian or Roman. It also makes me think that it might be worthwhile to select out stable strains of separate colors of the scabiosa flowered zinnias.

This current recombinant has curved and twisted petals, like we have seen in several of our zinnias.

It reminds me a bit of the now-extinct Fantasy Flowered zinnias, which actually won AAS medals in decades past. Their petals were very twisted and curved, and the flowerform was worthy of the name "Fantasy". It really irks me that the seed industry let the Fantasy zinnias go extinct. Oh, well, we now know that zinnias can do that and, if they can do it once, they can do it again.

More later. I have a lot of potted indoor zinnias that need to be set out into the garden.

ZM

I like the twisted and curved look on the gold zinnia! It kind of reminds me of the look that Medusa's "hair" had. Very pretty!

I have some of the offspring now blooming from last year's
cross of a male Envy with a female HP Seed Cactus (not a pretty flower, but close to blue!). I was hoping for blue-flowered offspring.

X

Most of the F1s are coming up with solid light magenta or pink flowers, but several were like this, picking up characteristics from both parents, but not blue ;-( :

JG

You know, I had also wondered if crossing greens with lavenders, purples, or violets might be a way to get a light blue. The green seems to be recessive in your crosses. The F2s might be interesting. I'm not optimistic that getting a true blue in zinnias will come easy. But there are some light bluish lavenders that can look sky blue in the shade. I had one of those in my original scabiosa hybrids.

I took this recombinant picture today in my zinnia patch.

It meets several of my breeding objectives, by getting a bicolor in a larger informal flower form. But the scary thing about this zinnia is that it is on a side branch on a plant that I had originally decided to discard because the first flower was single. But it was pretty, so I set it out in my zinnia patch to act as a nectar source for butterflies. Then, when the side branch budded, I removed the the faded single main-stem flower. And then the side branch flower opened as fully double. I hope that none of the other nice singles that I discarded were going to go double in their side branches. This cautions me against being too quick to discard single recombinants in the future.

Today was an enjoyable day in the garden, despite the humidity. I set out several potted zinnias into the garden, and pruned a couple of limbs that were shading my zinnia patch. This evening I lit a couple of Tiki torches to help discourage the mosquitoes. I'm looking forward to more zinnia gardening tomorrow.

ZM

But at least the zinnias of this big procrastinator is having flower buds now. :-)

Speaking of bugs, this stupid beetle died on my zinnia like that. I didn't put it there. It really died there like that. Maybe it flipped over and could not flip back. I have seen that on the ground but not on a leaf.

I have been on the road all of last week and returned home late Friday nite to find the thunderstorms and ironically thelack of water have take a toll. My computer was pulled for upgrade etc by corporate and will not be returned until next week... Next week is back on the road, which will become the story of my life! I am very thankful for having survived the layoff and reorganization though!

My brief time at home is now spent on collecting and labeling seed and preparing room for the next generation needing planting in the garden. Hopefully I'll have some pictures next week end....

JG, your Z. haageana hybrid is especially encouraging! I agree that the next selfed generation will be the exciting one to reveal its recombinant potential. It's a great thing that one does not have to exclusively perform just one scenario....as backcrosses can also be attempted. Nice job!

ZM, you bicolor spider really caught my attention and I like the two-toned pink scabiosa.

Arlan

Glad to have you back off the road, and that you have survived the layoff and reorganization. These are tough times. We have been having nearly daily thunderstorms, with some nearby microbursts causing extensive wind damage. Winds from microbursts can get as high as 120 mph. A recent microburst in nearby Ottawa Kansas blew over 18-wheeler trucks on I35. Our power was off for several hours last night and the wind blew over a small table that I used for outdoor breaks from my garden activities. We had a little over an inch of rain last night, as measured in my tin-can rain gauge. My zinnias have been getting blown about quite a bit and I have been installing "zinnia cages" to hold them more upright and give them some protection from winds and loose dogs. This zinnia had been lying on its side before I propped it up with a zinnia cage, so it is still confused about which way is up.

Its florets are a pretty good color match to its guard petals, but since its ancestry includes both scabiosa flowered zinnias and Burpeeana zinnias, its guard petals are extra long and a bit informal. They aren't down-sloped like a true Echinacea bloom, but I still classify it as echinacea flowered.

I hope the toll of dry weather and thunderstorms wasn't too severe on your garden. I am thankful that I am retired and have more time to spend gardening, and that my "road trips" consist of an occasional visit to out-of-state relatives.

ZM

That's an interesting picture of the dead Japanese Beetle. We had a lot of JBs in Maine, but here in Wellsville Kansas I haven't seen any yet. Knock on wood. It looks like your Japanese Beetle ate a few holes in your zinnia leaf and then rolled over dead. Actually, he may not have been dead. In Maine, I frequently found Japanese Beetles literally sleeping on my zinnias and, when sufficiently disturbed, they would wake up. Of course, your JB may have been truly dead. One possibility is that it died from a parasitic fly larva. When hand-picking Japanese Beetles, I was always careful to spare any beetles that had one or more white parasitic fly eggs on its back. This beetle has such an egg:

There are a lot of pictures of Japanese Beetles on the Web. The beetle in this picture was "plastered" with several parasite eggs, which is unusual. But I have found JBs with two or three eggs. By sparing the JBs with white eggs on them, they become nurseries for the production of more parasitic flies, which can help serve as a natural control for Japanese Beetles. Don't mistake the white spots on the abdomen of the JBs as eggs. They all have those white dots.

I don't know when your killing frost dates are there in your part of Michigan, but here in Wellsville Kansas and using the Kansas Freeze/Frost Occurrence Data, (I am interpolating between Olathe to our northeast and Ottawa to our southwest) there is about a 50% chance of a freeze of 32°F by October 22. There is a 10% chance it could be as early as October 7, and only a 10% chance it would be as late as November 17th. The dates shift for a threshold temperature of 36°F or 28°F, but I think I can safely gather zinnia seeds after a 32-degree frost, so I estimate that my useful zinnia growing season can extend to October 7th with only a 10% risk factor. So I am still planting seeds for a Fall crop of zinnias.

Your can figure your odds of freeze/frost by using the Michigan Freeze/Frost Occurrence Data. It is helpful to read the footnotes to the table. If your location isn't in the table, you can interpolate between two or more nearby locations. It takes a little while to figure out what the data means but, when you do, you can gamble on the weather with a good idea of what your odds are. I bring this up because there could still be a chance that you could plant a Fall crop of zinnias now without it being suicidal. Gardening is always a gamble, but it helps to know the odds.

ZM

Last summer I selfed this flower because I liked the wavy petals:

Most of the progeny don't have wavy petals, but most are shades of magenta or purple. I particularly like this one, although it is simple:

The next flower below has also appeared in the garden. I've shown it here before, but it keeps getting prettier and prettier! I would like to find a way to get more! I don't think selfing it will do that, although that is probably what I'll do with this first flower, given it has some pollen.

ZM, the gold flower with pink center is an interesting combination of colors. I'm convinced because of the variability during the zinnia's growth, that it is good to watch for the 2nd or third flowers before discarding the plant. It's funny. I've had events happen in both directions. Sometimes the first flower is the best the plant will ever put out, but sometimes it's the worst!

The scabious flower with longer petals is pretty. You said earlier it would be nice to have a pure-breeding line of each color of scabious zinnia. I think you would have to be patient there. Many really nice lines never shed pollen!
I wonder how many generations you would have to go through before getting all scabious offspring? Or do scabious zinnias require a particular cross to get hybrids and the scabious form?

Arlan, it sounds like you have a mobile and busy position! Ever since you showed the color changing in your Persian Carpet zinnia, I've been looking for the same thing. I'm beginning to see some evidence of that, but not the color pattern you saw! I really liked the darker tips on the petals.

Dave, you would be lucky to have some parasite around killing off beetles! Do you have many up there? We're getting a lot right now in Indiana. Already they've stripped some of my plants of their leaves.

HC, those swizzle offspring you have may give us an idea behind the inheritance of the particular color patterns.
I've also gotten two offspring from Swizzles similar to yours--one is a solid shade of purple and one is banded. I got these when crossed to the solid 'Big Red' zinnia from Park. Will show them when the flowers get a little larger.

JG

"The next flower below has also appeared in the garden. I've shown it here before, but it keeps getting prettier and prettier! I would like to find a way to get more! I don't think selfing it will do that, although that is probably what I'll do with this first flower, given that it has some pollen."

None of us are close to tissue culture yet, although that could be an ultimate solution. With what we know works today, you can take cuttings and then cuttings from those plants and so on, until you run out of season and need to go indoors or into a greenhouse. If going indoors or into a greenhouse is not an option, you could plan to harvest a lot of seedheads from your cloned population.

I did a few experiments propagating zinnias by grafts, but that proved to be much less practical than cuttings. The grafts also needed the protection of a humidity dome and, since the "rootstock" plant was already somewhat large, the humidity dome for the graft/rootstock combination would have to be huge. Some sort of plastic bag just for the graft would be needed.

I think cuttings are vastly more practical for zinnias than grafts, although it might be possible to find a way to make grafts more workable. The next step beyond cuttings is cuttings with progressively smaller explants. And then perhaps Photoautotrophic (Sugar-Free Medium) Micropropagation as a precursor to zinnia propagation by tissue culture.

That last picture of your "fantasy" specimen is spectacular. You don't see a picture like that in a seed catalog or on a seed packet. You really have something there. It is definitely worthy of selfing and outcrossing. And, if you feel comfortable with the process, you could take a few cuttings and pinch those plants to make them bushy with a lot of seedheads.

ZM

JG, I don't know if I have many beetles. I don't see them when I take a walk in the garden, but there are some zinnias and coneflowers with holes in the leaves. My lawn is treated for grubs, so I thought I would have not much problem with JB, but they are still there. They don't seem to be too destructive for the whole plant, so I just ignore them for now.

I like your wavy flowers (the top one and the bottom one with multi color). The middle one is cute, and it is great that you have the record of the parent and offsprings.

HC, it's interesting to see the bicolor of swizzle transfer to the offspring.

Now I am so looking forward for my flowers and even next year. :-)

ZM, I think cuttings are the way to go (for me) in propagating a favorite plant. Last year I briefly tried it, but didn't include the Physan 20 which I have now this year, and will use. Your description on starting cuttings (Part 6, July 28, 2008) was helpful. I've had experience with micropropagation with other kinds of plants at school. It is exciting, but a lot of care must be exercised in keeping everything sterile, and for now I'll try cuttings.

Today we've had a 1/4 inch of rain, and after it stopped, I was amazed at how the showers accelerated all the growth in the gardens. The main garden has taken off (micro-garden lower left of main garden picture, left), and to the east of that are two smaller patches (right), that are starting to fill out as well:

I have a number of July Bonnet offspring. It's interesting to note that the first five offspring that I had started indoors were from the largest of the seeds I collected, and those had the larger petals of typical zinnias. The smaller seeds were planted directly in the garden. There is a tremendous amount of similarity among those (~40) plants, making me think that the small seeds are related to the seemingly more mutated characteristics.

Unfortunately, none have the curly little red petals in the center!

Last year, I had a red flower (below, left) with rolled petals, and it was selfed. One of the F1s is shown below, right.

About 1/2 of the offspring has rolled petals.

One out of ten flowers has an intermediate-rolled appearance:

All the flowers are either purple or red.

The micro-garden is starting to bloom, too, and I am looking for any apparent hybrids. I see Chippendale seeds giving rise to flowers with Persian Carpet-like patterns, not surprising since they are both haageanas.

It's possible I may have a plant that is hybrid between a Z. peruviana and a Z. tenuifolia (still haven't found the chromosome number of Z. tenuifolia!):

Left to right, above: Z. tenuifolia (Red Spider); top and middle, Z. peruviana (Peruvian zinnia); and to right, possible hybrid?

I've got lots and lots of Whirligigs or Whirligigs by another name (Carousel or ZigZag) now. I can see that the breeders are trying to make them fancier by crossing to all other kinds of zinnias. I see among the Whrligigs cactus-like flowers, and among them, I'm getting the largest zinnias I have ever seen (solid-colored, and 5 to 6 inches across!).

JG

" I've had experience with micropropagation with other kinds of plants at school. It is exciting, but a lot of care must be exercised in keeping everything sterile, and for now I'll try cuttings."

Plant Cell Technology makes a product called PPM™ (Plant Preservative Mixture) that is supposed to make it less difficult to maintain sterile conditions for tissue culture. I actually received a small sample of PPM from Dr Carol Stiff, but haven't used it yet. Dr. Stiff seems to be the proprietor of the Home Tissue Culture group as well as the parent organization, Kitchen Culture Education Technologies, Inc.

I considered using PPM for my cuttings experiments, but there wasn't much of it in the sample and it is kind of expensive compared to Physan 20, so I went with the Physan 20 with good results. I may use the PPM in my experiments with photoautotrophic micropropagation of zinnias.

It would be great if you accidentally got a Z. peruviana x Z. tenuifolia cross. I'll keep my eye open for a chromosome number for Tenuifolia.

I particularly like the righthand picture of your July Bonnet offspring. I think I would save seed from all of them to see what pops up in the recombinations.

You are getting a lot of interesting zinnia specimens. This year I think your zinnia garden is considerably bigger than mine. We are renting and this place isn't favorable for gardening because of space limitations, tree shading, and gummy black soil. But, still, dealing with the challenges is kind of fun.

ZM

(I am not associated with any product or vendor mentioned)

I went to a seminar in 2007, and received some items for home culture, but have just been saving them up for possible home use. Included: 35 mL PPM with 0.1350% (w/v) and 0.0412% (w/v) of the two active ingredients (which are forms of isothiazolone), along with some packets of MS basal medium and agar. I think they were representing some of the things that Carol sells in her kits, and were introductory promotions. MAYBE I will use them one day, so will certainly hang on. I don't see an expiration date on the PPM, nor any indication that it should be refrigerated.

JG

I took this picture in my outdoor zinnia patch today.

I mentioned in a previous message, some time back, that I had had a side branch with the plan-of-three (3Z) leaf configuration. This picture is another occurrence of the same thing. The flower on the right is on a 3Z side branch. Now, if we could just put this together and get 3Z side branches on a 3Z main stem, we would really have something.

ZM

JG, I am interested in your red color zinnias. You said most of them are purple and red. Are they the same purple and red or do they have different shades. What are the majority color? How many did you plant (roughly). I am wondering if we can observe some Mandellian genetics with single-colored zinnia.

I have some reseeded candytufts, and they fits Mandel theory quite nicely. I think that is cool.

Both of those flowers are very nice! Are they both on the same plant (I assume they are)..? I only ask because the younger one with fewer central florets shows its pink center, while the other doesn't. You have a really pretty combination there....Funny how in this case, only the side branch is a 3Z. It might be an experiment sometime to try and disturb the terminal buds of a test plant to see if this condition could be induced by mechanical means...maybe not.

Something else crossed my mind as I observed some of the scabious zinnias today, speaking of induction. I was looking at the one plant I had with particularly nice scabious and orange flowers. I've been netting its flowers in hopes of getting a scabious flower on another plant with pollen for crossing. I haven't, so unless there has been pollination by wind, none of those flowers have yet been pollinated. I notice now on the fifth and youngest flower coming on that plant, that it is finally producing disc pollen-producing florets. Possibly if a plant puts out multiple flowers and none get pollinated, the plant puts out a last-ditch signal to its younger flowers to finally produce pollen...just a hypothesis..akin to deadheading sort of.. I've always been in a hurry to cross-pollinate flowers that I like to ensure I maintain their genes in some way when they are not producing pollen themselves. Maybe I should wait to see if they will produce pollen in final blooms!

Dave, I have a lot of red flowers of many shades, and some in combination with other colors. I might be wrong here, but I feel that if I just kept all of my seeds from year to year, ultimately most of the flowers would turn out purple.
I did that once several years in a row, and it seems that from one year to the next, I got more and more purple flowers. According to one paper I saw in Journal of Heredity (79:289-293) published in 1988, the authors wrote that zinnia colors are controlled by multiple alleles, or genes. Purple flowers have dominant alleles for several traits. But it might be more than that. There may be some factors that are selective for flowers with particular alleles, like hardiness for particular conditions in the garden, preference for flowers with these alleles by pollinators, etc. And, often genes for the same trait have more complex relationships to each other than simply dominant to recessive! So we are most likely working with more than Mendelian patterns of inheritance. I think these zinnia genetics are going to be a challenge!

The important thing is that if we want to study inheritance of color, we have to develop or acquire pure-breeding strains expressing each color. Then carry out the crosses. Check out that article I referenced above. It's a good head start on what we might want to test. At this point, I'm sure I have no pure-breeding strains, except possibly the Park's Pick (Benary) zinnias of different colors. ZM was referring earlier to developing pure-breeding strains of scabious zinnias to get a handle on our crosses and better control on our hybridizations. Good idea! But it will take some time to so.

I apologize for getting long-winded here..interesting subject! Below are some pictures of what I have now: a full pink cactus with purple highlights, an "airier" orange-red cactus, an orange and pink flower (not so nice as ZM's scabious example), and another rolled-petals zinnia F1 (extreme example)..

JG

I have noticed that scabiosa flowered zinnias will occasionally put out a side branch with a flower that has conventional fuzzy yellow pollen-bearing florets. But I had not conjectured that it was a response to a lack of pollination of its existing flowers. I continue to notice different appearances from one branch to another in zinnias, and that still makes me wonder if zinnia plants frequently have somewhat different genetics from one branch to another.

Today I found a conventional yellow floret on the 3Z flower pictured above, and I used its pollen to self the petal stigmas on that flower. I saw that as an opportunity to continue my attempts to get a strain of threesie zinnias. There were also some fuzzy yellow pollen florets on another flower on the same scabiosa recombinant plant. That flower is out of the picture in the picture above, but you can see its stem going out of the top of the picture and you can see the now-faded main flower behind that stem. Incidentally, the other flowers on this plant also have bi-colored petals, but the central crests of florets have grown to hide the base color of the petals.

I resisted the opportunity to use the pollen on that other flower, even though it was on the same plant, because it wasn't on a 3Z branch. It may be pointless for me to wonder if those two flowers were the same or different genetically, because that plant is so heterozygous that recombination affects every pollen grain and every egg cell on such a plant, regardless of which branch the flower is on.

"I was looking at the one plant I had with particularly nice scabious and orange flowers. I've been netting its flowers in hopes of getting a scabious flower on another plant with pollen for crossing. I haven't, so unless there has been pollination by wind, none of those flowers have yet been pollinated."

The scabiosa flower form is tricky, and you may have already had a lot of self pollination within your choice orange scabiosa specimen. The typical scabiosa floret is hermaphroditic, containing both anthers and stigma. The anthers do not always have viable pollen, in which case the stigma is just as available for pollination as the petal stigmas.

Sometimes the anthers do have viable pollen and the stigma is selfed by that pollen as it grows upward through the anther tubular grouping. Some scabiosa flowers bear a lot of fertile floret seeds by that mechanism, while other scabiosa flowers have florets that appear to be self sterile. It is possible to find viable pollen in some scabiosa florets, and you can pull open those florets to extract the tubular anther grouping to use that pollen to pollinate stigmas on that flower or stigmas on a different flower.

I did that today on the 3Z flower pictured above. I have noticed that the scabiosa florets nearest the petals tend to be more petal-like and that the scabiosa florets nearest the center tend to be more like pollen florets. It's a little tedious (or a lot tedious) pulling scabiosa florets open to access their stigmas and/or their pollen anthers. It's like another surgical procedure on the zinnias. But it can give you access to pollen that you didn't know you had, or it can give you access to receptive stigmas that you didn't know you had.

There is quite a bit of variation in scabiosa flowered zinnia flowers, including the marigold flowered version, which has a lot of stigmas accessible to pollination without surgery.

ZM

I'm glad we have a similar interest in tissue culture. I became interested in it only about two years ago, first as a possible means of large-scale asexual propagation of zinnia clones, and second as a means of producing mutations in an otherwise stable strain of a plant.

"...I don't see the big reason to do it yet. I don't have a need for 200 or 2000 plants, for example. Cuttings are sufficient for me to preserve the line to next year."

My Maine garden was possibly ten times as large as my garden here in Kansas, and I did have room for 2000 plants or even more. But here in Kansas, I could make room for 200 plants, so tissue culture could be helpful to me, and I expect to try it sometime in the next 12 months, perhaps as a Winter activity.

It is true that cuttings are sufficient to preserve a line of zinnias until next year, although there are hazards in indoor growing or greenhouse growing that aren't so serious outdoors. For example, a thrips epidemic wiped out my indoor zinnias during the Winter of 2007/2008 before I realized what the problem was. Thrips are not usually a problem outdoors, because hot Summer temperatures tend to wipe them out.

But when you want to stabilize a hybrid, you need to save a lot of seeds from it and grow them out. Cuttings can help a lot with that, but it is difficult to get more than ten cuttings from a zinnia parent plant, while if you had 200 clones of that zinnia plant, you would be in a position to produce an enormous yield of seeds. That enormous yield of seeds might be what you really need to stabilize or dehybridize a unique zinnia specimen.

Take, for instance, JG's remarkable July Bonnet specimen. She saved seeds from it and got some interesting progeny, but no duplicate of the parent. If she had been able to save seeds from 200 clones of it, she would have been able to fill a large garden with its direct progeny, several times over, which would have multiplied her chances of getting, not only a direct duplicate of July Bonnet, but even of finding multiple examples of improved forms of July Bonnet. That is the potential that I see in tissue culture for this zinnia hobby.

"I am wondering if we can observe some Mendellian genetics with single-colored zinnia."

It is possible that we could find some single-gene phenotypes in zinnias, but I have observed literally hundreds of different colors in zinnias, and other characteristics that seemed to be displayed almost in a continuum.

It seems that many interesting zinnia characteristics are effected by more than one gene, so that a Mendellian analysis could be extremely complicated even if all of the zinnia genes had been identified. There have been genomes for some plants of interest and it will be of interest to us when a zinnia genome is made available.

But I must confess that my zinnia breeding activities are very unscientific. I am still emphasizing the fun aspect of zinnia breedings, and I tend to cross my zinnias pretty much willy-nilly. I am trying for particular goals, with some logic in my crosses. But I am not thinking Mendellian. I am thinking more like recombinations of many, many gene combinations.

And I do keep in mind that it has been found that the DNA spirals contain many apparently inactive codes and combinations that seem to be holdovers from previously active genes. I think there still are DNA code fragments from prehistoric zinnias that don't exist anymore in nature. (Shades of Jurassic Park?) Apparently zinnias have genetic surprises that can be invoked by our unscientific activities, like for example, JG's July Bonnet. There is an enormous amount of stuff that I don't know about this, but I think that working with zinnias is fun. And, sometimes by accident, educational, and a bit humbling as well.

ZM

I see what you mean about having some needs to duplicate plants. Before I started doing hybridizing, I didn't think there was a need (except perhaps at one time I thought that filling a church with 200 or more poinsettias for Christmas without the needs of purchasing it would be cool).

But with hybridizing, yes, there is some need. I might do it this winter too. I once saw a web site with simple tissue culture procedure (with sterilization but agar-agar with fertilizer + vitamin pill (for micronutrients) + some sugar). I think whatever works in the natural environment will work as long as it is sterile. I might try the simple approach first, just as an experiment. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Nothing much to lose anyway.

I am not going to be too scientific about hybridizing. I once was very interested in theoretical parts, but later I found that even if we know how the genes work for particular traits, if more than one gene is involed, the combination becomes large that it would require so much space to grow many plants in order to find the stable trait. For me that becomes impractical. So nowadays I read a little here and there. I think the theory is useful is knowing what to watch, but not having enough space, one almost have to depend on luck too as there are so many combinations.

Some of you have talked about volunteers in the garden.. I don't believe I've ever had volunteer zinnias, but year to year, somehow the finches manage to spread sunflower seeds around. They are already hanging around the garden waiting for this big guy to make seeds, and are eating zinnia seeds as appetizers in anticipation.

One of my seeds from last year gave me this scabious flower with unusual color:

JG

That scabiosa has an unusual color, and I like it. It is a nice pale pastel color, like you might find on a paint chip for a wall color. But it has a base color of a pink hue, so it must have Whirligig-type ancestry as well. I would definitely save seeds from it.

This "toothy" specimen bloomed recently:

It is actually rather similar in flower form to a toothy specimen that I used as a breeder several years ago, but this one has a much more delicate color. Now if I could just get that in a 6-inch or 7-inch flower...

ZM

The 'July Bonnet' seems like it wants to recreate itself more so than most zinnias that are selfed. Judging from the photos of July 15 and June 24, your results seem more similar than dissimilar. You were disappointed that there were no curly central petals, which made me wonder if 'July Bonnet' had curly petals initially. You had wondered about the correlation between seed size and flower type. You may be onto something. Recognizing characteristics that are inherited together (linked) is super helpful in breeding programs. I remember one study that concluded that a higher percentage of cactus type blooms come from pointed seeds than from ovate seeds from the same seedheads.

I am curious about the progression of some flowers shown earlier. Both specimens were eyecatching tricolors. Photos were posted July 5 and June 30. Are subsequent blooms as impressive?

I agree with you that we should always keep our eyes open for linked characteristics in the plants. And those characteristics may represent linkages between floral traits, or floral traits and traits in other parts of the plant (e.g., leaves).

The next example is not a linkage issue, but possibly evidence that I may have had a hybrid. The thing that made me think I might have a hybrid between tenuifolia and a peruviana, is that the tenuifolias consistently have very narrow petals, and rather wide leaves. The peruvianas have wide petals and comparatively narrow leaves. The plant I got has petals that are narrower than the peruvianas and wider than the tenuifolias. The leaves were very similar to those of the tenuifolias. Frankly, I wasn't all that excited because all the flowers are red! Last year, for some reason, my yellow peruvianas didn't come up, so I reordered seeds for this year. I'm going to assume my possible hybrid had a tenuifolia mother because its seeds were in with the tenuifolias. So, this year I will try and cross a tenuifolia and peruviana using pollen from a yellow peruviana. Orange flowers will convince me of a successful cross!

I haven't yet had successive blooms on the June 30 and July 5 flowers, but I do have buds--will see what happens!

Actually, thanks for reminding me that the red curly petals of July Bonnet were not there initially--I do recall they came with time. Some of the F1s are reminding me of that a little now. Maybe I have some hope here...

Another interesting feature of these flowers is that the backside of the petals is a bluish-white color.

What Arlan said about the scabiosas developing borders on their petals with age was confirmed once again here with this flower I saw today.

Interesting effect! This one really stood out...

ZM, your toothy flower is nice. I have a couple that are about 3 1/4 inches wide and not so symmetrical.(I don't know if yours is larger..).

You're welcome to have seeds from these, if you're interested in them for breeding purposes; they've been selfed. I have certain lines of flowers I want to keep for myself ;-), but you, Dave, Arlan, or HC are welcome to one shipment if I might have something you might want to try and work with.

JG

I have no experience with growing Peruvians (except corn) so I didn't want to jump to conclusions about the possibility of a cross with 'Red Spider'. Last year was my only experience growing 'Red Spider' and I found mine to be totally uniform in every aspect. When I saw the little one in the middle of your photo, I just felt sure it's a cross. Peruvian has 24 chromosomes, but I can't find info as to Z. tenufolia's number.

I'm hypothesizing here, but ... if you could have success selfing the "cross" you have, you might still get some variations in color even though both parent specimens/species appear identical in color. I have a couple of reasons for believing that:
1) In backcrosses of 'Profusion' to the parent Z. violacea, some new petal color shades resulted. It was surmised that modifiers from one species had been provided the opportunity to perform on base colors that were chemically different to the colors they were normally given opportunities to act upon.
2) In breeding pigeons I have set up matings of individuals that appeared to share a trait (eg.: white plumage). Their offspring were consistently non-white. What I did not realize is that each parent line had a completely different set of gene combinations which were causing that line to appear white. In F2 generations I would be able to produce more whites, but in a ratio of 1:3:8:3:1 where each 1 represents a white for a different reason; the 8 is the dominant color I was getting consistently in the F1; and the 3's are two other colors due to recessive modifiers getting the chance to act upon dominant genes from the opposite "white" line, but without the first dominant modifier.

I doubt I've made myself clear, but feel sure you all will understand my intention.

JG, that is very nice and generous of you. Thank you very much in advance! I will ask about it later. This is really wonderful as it can save me one or two years.

"...but you, Dave, Arlan, or HC are welcome to one shipment if I might have something you might want to try and work with."

I have been hesitant to offer breeder seed or to suggest trading breeder seeds because my seeds still seem to be very unpredictable, and the percentage germination is not a tested thing like the seed companies offer. I think most seed company seed has been tested to 80% or better, while my saved seeds probably average about 50%, sometimes significantly more and sometimes significantly less. Occasionally a water damaged head will have very low germination. I still have doubts about my germinating techniques, and hopefully I will learn more about how to germinate zinnia seeds well.

I still get only about one "good" zinnia in 10 or 20 plants. I think that has to do with my practice of crossing hybrids with hybrids, which really exaggerates the heterozygosity of my seeds.

But as long as we all understand that there are no guarantees on what the results will be, I think it might be a good thing to trade seeds in order to increase the depth of our gene pools. We can work out the details of trading seeds and helping people get started who don't have seeds to trade. Incidentally, I like your toothy specimen on the left, because of its informal petal arrangement.

Your zinnia gene pool is probably much deeper than mine, even though I started hand pollinating before you did. Your practice of planting a variety of zinnias, letting the bees do your cross pollinating work for you, and then saving seeds was a very efficient way of building a really diverse gene pool.

I like this specimen, which just bloomed a few days ago.

I think it was in 2007, in a planting of Burpee Burpeeana zinnias, when I found a specimen with an unusual blending of white with rose. At that time it reminded me of the effects you can get when knife painting with oil paints. I tagged that zinnia as a breeder and mostly selfed it, although I was disappointed with my seed yield from it and feared that I might lose the effect. But the seeds that I did get seemed to transmit the white blended trait successfully, because I have gotten it in several progeny. Sometimes it shows up as petals with white on their base merging to full color on the petal ends, rather like this specimen displays.

As I write this, we are getting thunderstorms and I am concerned that a couple of my seedheads are getting water damage out in the garden. There are advantages to indoor seed setting and green seed planting.

ZM

Probably by witnessing some of my crosses here, it can be seen that predicting offspring in flowers with a diverse genetic background is a huge challenge. I thought that if any of you would like to try and enrich your gene pools with a particular trait or set of traits (e.g., full yellow cactus flower or tall plant with narrow leaves), I would be glad to send up to a few hundred seeds with a parent(s) having those characteristics your way. I wander out to the garden and see all the different plants that could be experimented with, and know I surely can't do it all, nor have all the ideas to carry out novel crosses. Now would be the time for me to cover certain flowers so they could be selfed or crossed, and then chances of getting a trait in offspring might be enhanced. The seeds may or may not germinate, not even have the hoped for traits--it's a totally experimental process. But even a contribution to the compost pile is a positive thing ;-)...

HC, I think I understand your thoughts on getting similar phenotypes from different gene combinations, and conversely, getting different phenotypes from the same genetic combination due to such factors as environmental conditions. You have epistasis, imprinting, linkage, incomplete dominance, co-dominance and all other kinds of genetic (and epigenetic) relationships that may be at play. My hypothesis is that the genes responsible for pigmentation in the peruvianas and tenuifolias are similar, and maybe that will be tested this summer! How the different genes for different types of pigmentation interact is anyone's guess...I guess orange, when between red and yellow...will see! It's interesting how your Swizzle-nonSwizzle crosses are going. I made a Swizzle female-Big Red male cross , and have three flowers on three plants now. Will post those shortly.

ZM, that's a gorgeous pink and cream flower you have! I like the shade of rose and then, the unusual shape of the petals make it different. I hope you can get more of them. Your breeding program is becoming very sophisticated, and you're getting such good results which inspire us all. I'm starting by looking at mutations, or particular traits and watching the inheritance of those. Most likely, I'll wind up with some very unusual specimen that has few esthetic qualities, but that's OK.. the whole thing is a lot of fun.

JG

JG, I want to take you up on your seed offer too. I've been scanning some of your previous posts to see what I really like. (Loopy has always been a favorite.) I too have saved and labeled scads of '08 seed which I would be glad to offer to our regulars, though I have not had any spectacular specimens to collect from so far. I've done a better job of note taking and labeling this year than ever, but in truth, I'm disappointed with the majority of what is blooming right now.

I believe that your hypothesis concerning color genes in Peruvian and 'Red Spider' is right on. Still, I'm hopeful that in an F2, a modifier from one species can find a gene from the opposite species to act on that it didn't have access to in its own species.

I probably don't have much to swap though since mine for this year will all come from standard packets, but who knows. I will post pictures if anything interesting come by. Right now the first flower is half open, but it looks pretty "standard."

Last year, I made this cross with a Big Red male x Swizzle female:

X

to get these three F1s. The purple one and one with orange tips are both about ten inches tall. The third, that is still opening and is still mostly red, is about three feet tall.

My Chippendale that was a 3Z (main stem) is showing the typical Chippendale flower on that stem. No other flowers have appeared yet.

JG

So in this particular cross, were you trying to get big and bicolor? If so, it looks like you achieved the goal in the 3rd flower (I think I can see the bicolor effect from the picture). Yes, it is mostly red, but it means the two colors happen to be similar. Maybe if you self cross it, there is better chance to get the big + bicolor, perhaps with more color variation?

Or maybe if you later have others with big + bicolor you can cross them again?

This is so interesting!

I didn't get enough offspring from the above cross to really make a valid conclusion, but just looking at the few F1s there, I think I may have overwhelmed the system with red pigment. I was kind of hoping to get a tall red and white swizzle type, and I thought the Big Red would liven up the red color. Possibly I'd be better off just crossing a swizzle with a tall white-flowered plant, maybe a cactus, and see what happens.

I have a feeling the taller plant with the young mostly red flower will give rise to mature flowers like the short orange and red flower.

JG

"You have epistasis, imprinting, linkage, incomplete dominance, co-dominance and all other kinds of genetic (and epigenetic) relationships that may be at play."

You have an impressive understanding of the genetic complexities that may be in play with our zinnia breeding. I haven't had any epiphanies yet, but I have come to expect a high percentage of non-scabiosa singles in my scabiosa flowered recombinants. This is one of my current scabiosa recombinants:

It doesn't have a very good center, but I like the toothy form of the guard petals. So I am using it as a breeder, because I don't have a lot of better zinnias at this time. Apparently scabi recombinants can have several grades of centers, ranging from fully populated with good florets to mostly populated with off-type florets. My guess is that more than one gene influence the center florets. I'm hoping there is a size gene, because I would like to get huge florets.

ZM

That flower has a lot of interesting features: the color, the toothy petals, and the large central florets. The florets almost resemble the form of little lilies. I agree with you about the wide range of variability in the scabious zinnias.

I wonder in the range of floret size and type, where the flowers with fully tubular petals lie? Have you ever grown up seeds from those flowers to get similar F1s? It would be interesting to cross one of those flowers with tubular petals with a flower like you have just shown to see if the size of the central florets could be enlarged in the offspring. I'm anxious to get seeds from my tubular-petalled plant. I've been selfing the first flower and hope to get more flowers on that plant.

JG

"I wonder in the range of floret size and type, where the flowers with fully tubular petals lie? Have you ever grown up seeds from those flowers to get similar F1s? It would be interesting to cross one of those flowers with tubular petals with a flower like you have just shown to see if the size of the central florets could be enlarged in the offspring."

I am glad you reminded me about the tubulars. I have saved seed from several of them, but I don't recall having planted any yet. I will be planting some fall crop zinnias shortly, and I will definitely try to include some tubulars. I realize this may be a little late to be planting zinnias for outdoor growing, but if a frost threat develops I can always take cuttings for growing indoors.

I think I mentioned before that, while "surgically" splitting some of the tubular petals to gain access to their stigmas for pollination, I discovered some anther-like features inside the tubes, very similar to those in the florets of the scabiosa configuration. The tubes may have the ability to self themselves by a mechanism very similar to how the florets can self themselves. In both cases, a functional stigma grows past anther-like organs that are apparently pollen-bearing. Like in the florets, the tubular stigmas may or may not be fertilized.

I think the possibilities for crossing tubulars with scabiosa types are most interesting. A scabiosa flower with tubular guard petals would have a lot of possibilities for generating new flower forms in zinnias. And, as you suggested, it might be a means of increasing the scabi floret size significantly. By all means, self your tubular and save seeds from it. With anthers in the tubes, the tubulars are a unique zinnia flowerform, with many cross pollination possibilities.

ZM

The Whirligig and Burperean Giant (pictures shown in that order) are more interesting... not too exciting either (well, actually that is for you. For me, since I didn't grow any multicolored ones last year, these look NICE to me!) :-) They are F1 hybrid for certain look, so they look standard too, but if I don't get other more interesting ones, at least I have these to self for study next year.

The petals are not all ready yet. They look like they will be doubles. But the stigmas are there already, so I wonder if I should protect them with nettings now so that insects won't pollinate them.

I am happy. :-)

(I don't know why the system doesn't allow you to enter a message with the same subject line. It must be to prevent spam, but I think any spamming machine can easily modify a character or two to make a new subject line). sigh

I like both your Whirligig and your Burpeeana Giant. The Burpeeana Giant may become more solid colored in the next few days, but the petals have a nice corrugated texture that I like. Crossing those two could give some interesting results. The colors of both look quite bright and lively. I don't see how a hybrid between those two could turn out bad.

I first started using nets to keep bees from "stealing" pollen from my choice breeders. The nets virtually revolutionized my breeding by giving me a much more dependable and abundant source of pollen from zinnias that looked especially good to me. Then I began using the nets to protect my stigmas from unwanted bee pollination. And finally, I began using the nets to keep seed-eating birds from eating my cross-pollinated seeds. For some perverse reason, the birds actually seemed to prefer my hand-hybridized seeds to the regular seeds. Perhaps the hybrid vigor made the seeds bigger and plumper and tastier. Or perhaps it was just my imagination.

I have noticed that many of my hand pollinated seeds turn out to be noticeably larger than the regular seed packet zinnia seeds. That may be because I tend to preferentially choose the larger seeds to plant from my breeder seeds, and that may have the long term effect of breeding zinnias to have larger seeds. That wasn't a conscious goal, but I suppose larger seeds might be more attractive to birds.

I am currently trying to think of better designs for my zinnia nets. I had settled on a simple flat rectangular net because it is simplest and quickest to make, but now I am thinking that I would like my nets to fit the zinnia bloom better, to be lighter, and to have less wind drag. I am planning to try several new designs and construction methods. Arlan used fiberglass window screen to make "zinnia bloom cages" and they seemed to work well, so I think I will also experiment with fiberglass window screen for making zinnia bloom protectors. I may even use a combination of materials, like fiberglass window screen and nylon netting. I will also experiment with lightweight techniques for joining the bloom cage components.

ZM

Those zinnias have really great, bright colors! It would be interesting to see what the offspring may look like. The two flowers seem to be complements to each other--where one is yellow, the other is red. Will the F1 flowers of these be solid or two-toned? Will there be a predominate pattern? Seems like a good cross that could tell you lots, and at the same time, give you nice, bright-flowered offspring!

I only have one year's experience with using netting or covers of any kind, but ZM's inventions are very helpful ones as described above. I've noticed that bees of different kinds will fly flower to flower, and even if your flowers may not be shedding pollen, often the bees will quickly go near them and check them out for pollen, and at that instant, it's possible that they could drop pollen from another flower on them.

And the birds, for me, especially the finches, will steal the seeds before they get a chance to dry and be collected, so there a cover is important, too.

I could have made more solid covers this year, but have not. I can't help but think that wind pollination with the nets could be a possibility. The thing that makes me think that is that often flowers without nets that appear to have nothing but stigmas often bear seeds --could this just be insects? I don't know!

JG

But after you guys mentioned it, I thought, well, maybe it will show which pattern is dominant, or maybe it will have some effect that I don't think, so I will cross them.

But things change fast after the first day. This morning, the Burpeerean Giant has turned more toward orange (single color) as ZM said. The Whirligig has opened the 2nd layer this morning, and right now it has 3 layers.

It is raining lightly now, so I will take some pictures tomorrow and net them. Here are the pictures from this morning:

They have turned to be more common look. Oh well, I hope the next generation will give different petal shapes. The colors (esp. that of Whirligig) look good to me, but I like a little different petal shapes).

I still have 50 to 80 coming to bloom.

I still like those two zinnias, and think they would be an interesting cross. That Whirligig is so bright it almost hurts your eyes. It should be a good breeder. With 50 to 80 more zinnias coming into bloom for you, we have a lot to look forward to, to see what you will get.

As we arrive at 100 messages, this message thread is becoming a little slow to load, so we will continue over in It can be fun to breed your own zinnias - Part 12. See you all over there. Keep those zinnia pictures coming.

ZM