Hi Telescody and all,

This is the first of the progeny from my trumpet-petaled mutant from last year to bloom out indoors. It seems to be rather true to its parent, except for that odd side-branching flower bud. These pictures were taken about an hour ago of zinnias growing within a foot or two from my computer.

{{gwi:24255}}
I'm not too wild about that side-branching bud, but otherwise I like this, because the trumpet petals seem to be a stable genetic factor.

{{gwi:24256}}Now it still remains to get these trumpet petal genes recombined with other petal genes to get a more spectacular open trumpet. This scabious bloom opened recently and has some receptive stigmas which are getting some of the pollen from the current trumpet-petaled specimen.

Like its maternal parent, the trumpet-petaled bloom is producing pollen, which I used a few minutes ago on this scabious bloom. I am going to split the trumpet petals to get access to the stigmas inside. As a result of that, the trumpet-petaled bloom will soon look like a hurricane hit it. But it is all in the interest of getting an interesting new zinnia flower form.

It is really quite convenient to pollinate and cross-pollinate zinnias that are growing right next to my computer chair. I can remain comfortably seated, and move the plants around for convenient access. And I don't have to worry about bees stealing my zinnia pollen. I really enjoy indoor zinnia gardening. More later. I'm sleepy.

ZM

That side-branching bud looks crazy. Is it going to open with the same style as the developed one beside it? I like the trumpet shape and I like the direction you're taking it, but I definitely like the second one you've posted the most.
It looks absolutely stunning with the crumpled looking guard petals and a crown of smaller petals.

Same about the indoor gardening part. Although, I think I just selfed half of mine by bumping into their stand. Blah.

Hi Telescody,

"Is it going to open with the same style as the developed one beside it?"

It has developed far enough now that I am sure that it is. I have a second plant from the same parent that is also showing trumpet petals for certain, but in a slightly different color. I will post a pic of it in a few days.

{{gwi:24257}}I also like the second one that I posted the best. I, too, like the crinkled wavy guard petals and its mound of matching florets. This marigold-looking specimen came from the same parent and, as is frequently the case with zinnias, differs quite a lot from its siblings. I have also been doing some violence to it since I took its picture a couple of days ago, opening florets to access stigmas and pollen. Based on its floret structure and my journal notes, I think there is some chance that it was pollinated with trumpet pollen, but just isn't "showing it" much, although its florets are somewhat unusual in structure. For that reason, I am back-pollinating it with the trumpet specimen.

I have several non-trumpet specimens coming into bloom now that I suspect have a trumpet male parent. The trumpet trait apparently does not "show up" well in an F1 context. If it were a single Mendelian gene, you would say that it was recessive. I am hoping that it will recombine better in an F2 generation or in F2 crosses. A lot of zinnia traits seem to be controlled by multiple genes, which makes for a lot of interesting results during recombination. More later. One of my fluorescent shoplight fixtures went bad yesterday (its cheap ballast burned out), so I will be refurbishing it today with a new, somewhat better, ballast. While I am at it, I think I will add a second ballast to overdrive it.

ZM

Hi ZM and Telescody,

So glad that spring is coming! Prematurely coming, maybe, but still, makes me want to start looking for some new zinnias or at least look at the catalogs to see what all there is. I see that Burpee has put out a new Peppermint Stick, or maybe it's bigger, in yellow and red..and, besides all the marylandica variations, I see nothing too new!

ZM, I am so happy your trumpet petals are moving onto the next generation!! I don't believe that has happened for me, but I don't use quite as a controlled environment. I think that two-flowered stem is really different..I wonder if that may be hereditary, too? Breeders got that trait to work in tulips. I think it is more interesting than attractive, but still!

Anyway, hello for now, and looking for everyone's posts!

JG

Hi JG,

Glad to have you back. I think Burpee's Pop Art Red and Yellow is bigger than a Peppermint Stick. Its height is listed as 2 - 3 feet, same as Peppermint Stick, but it flower size is listed as "large" while Peppermint Stick has 2-inch blooms. There was a time when I would have been enthusiastic about Pop Art, but as I have said earlier, stripes and spots aren't something I am going after now.

"I am so happy your trumpet petals are moving onto the next generation!!"

Me too. This ia a picture taken today of the fourth trumpet petaled specimen that is blooming indoors in my study by my computer.

{{gwi:24258}}
I moved it up from the basement when it showed trumpet petals yesterday. My code numbers are in the "F" series for 2012. Time flies. I am very encouraged that they breed true. The colors are a bit different. I have a red, a scarlet, a rose, and a pink specimen. I am intercrossing them and backcrossing them to some probable F1 hybrids between last year's original trumpet petal (E2) and other breeder zinnias.

I think I have several F1 hybrids with E2 as the male, but I was surprised that the trumpet petals seem to be recessive, or nearly so. One F1 does have a few partially tubular petals. As I mentioned above, I think that marigold flowered specimen has the original trumpet petaled zinnia as its male parent. One thing that makes me believe that is that it has a lot of three-armed stigmas. One of the interesting features of the original trumpet, E2, was a lot of three-armed stigmas. You wouldn't see them until you split the trumpets to expose the stigmas to pollinate them. In the card game of Poker, if you unconsciously give some kind of clue, they call it a "tell". The three-armed stigmas are acting as a "tell" for trumpet male parentage. I am back-crossing some of my current trumpet petaled specimens to the suspected hybrids, with the hope that something interesting will shake out in the recombinations.

Even though I haven't as of now gotten any "payoff" from the trumpets, I intend to persist in growing recombinants involving the trumpet petals. My rose colored trumpet has somewhat shorter, broader trumpets, so it may well be that the trumpet petal features are controlled by more than one gene. I hope so, because that gives more recombination possibilities. More later. I am not too enthusiastic about the two-flowered trumpet. That looks a little freaky. But if that wants to show up again, I will let it. I won't cull it. With some improvement, it could look good.

ZM

Hi JG,

"...besides all the marylandica variations, I see nothing too new!"

Same here. In fact, Burpee appears to have dropped their Burpee Hybrids Mix from their paper catalog, although they may still offer them on their website.

{{gwi:24259}}I ordered a couple of packets of Burpee Hybrids Mix from Burpee's website, just to grow a few more of them this year. And I think I may have a packet or two of them left over from previous years. I am really bad about ordering more seeds than I have room or time to plant. But I have nearly doubled my garden size this year, so I will probably deplete my inventory of seeds.

I have grown the Burpee Hybrids Mix off and on for the last several years, and the specimen pictured here, which is blooming in our basement now, has at least a couple of grandparents or great-grandparents selected from a packet of Burpee Hybrids Mix. More recently it has picked up some "Dinosaur Zinnia" genes, and possibly some "Medusa" genes. This specimen has freakishly long stigmas, which kind of appeals to me. And I like its wild "bed hair" look. I will be crossing it with a similar specimen, possibly with similar heritage, which is also coming into bloom in the basement. These unusual specimens feed my enthusiasm for zinnia breeding.

Anyone who wants to equate local weather with climate change would have a field day right now. We have essentially missed Winter, with less than an inch of total snow fall, and these last few days, including today, have been in the 80's. The fruit trees are in full bloom, with hundreds of bees actively gathering nectar. When you are near a tree, the loud humming sound can be kind of scary. If we do have a hard freeze now, it is going to have serious effects on the fruit crop. Our apricot tree and cherry tree are in full bloom, and the plum tree has already dropped its petals. I am hoping the fruit trees make it, because last year was so hot and dry that we got no fruit crop at all. Next week cooler weather is supposed to return.

Regardless of how the weather goes, it is time for me to make indoor plantings of those zinnias and tomatoes that I intend to set out in the garden after our "safe" no-frost date. I am going to have to do a bit of research to figure out just what that date is for this rural location. I have some more indoor zinnia pictures to post, but it is time for me to wash some pots and plant some seeds. I kind of enjoy doing that, too.

ZM

Hi JG and ZM!
Our weather has been very unusual here as well. I've had a lot of my seedlings outside for the past four or five days straight, with no need to take them in at night. I brought some in today because of the rain but moved others to a protected spot. In fact, from the 10-day forecast, it seems like there won't be frost in the foreseeable future. Last year I would only cover my plants if it dipped below 43, which I'll probably be doing again. The funny part is that last year we had a frost right before June, when our last frost date is the middle of April. I very much doubt this warm snap will last much longer, but it seems like it'll kick back up before March is through - a great time to gently harden off seedlings!

If you don't mind me asking, both ZM and JG, how do you start your outdoor zinnia gardens in detail?

From my own experimenting, I've had the best luck germinating seeds indoors and then moving them individually to holes I poked with an old pencil. I don't have a decent spot built up yet for zinnias specifically, so I'm hoping to get that figured out this year as well.
I'm thinking to maybe scrape the grass off with a tractor, spread a little compost, germinate and grow the seeds a bit and then mulch with a newspaper and wood chips for each plant. I'm 100% positive that a lot of weeds and composted veggies would sprout if I did that, but it seems like the best idea I can come up with right now.
I'd like to be able to cast the seeds out scattered at random, then have them germinate like that and pick what I don't like out, but I've never tried it. Perhaps waiting until a rainy forecast well after last frost and hoping for the best would work.

On a different note, I threw out the zinnias I posted above because I didn't particularly like any of them. Right now I'm germinating a ton in a large pot so I can give a nice gift to my mother next month, with the added bonus that I can pluck any seedlings I want out of it.
I'll probably start another one for an early bunch to pluck and place outside where I can.

One thing that I'm definitely going to change next winter will be to either move my light from my room or do away with it. It has really messed with my psychological well-being having a light on 24/7 every day and night non-stop. I like sleeping in the dark after I've turned off all of my computer things, my TV, etc. The fans whirl down and I crawl under the blankets... I let out a sigh of relaxation and let the day fall away; I close my eyes and it's no use. Orange.
I can see the light through my eyelids, so I push the blanket up over my face to block it a bit. It sucks.

Thankfully, the days are extending and I don't have to have my lights on constantly anymore. I'm a happy camper with the bugs chirping outside, the cool breeze rolling in, and best of all, the darkness. Spring is the best time of the year.

As a final thought, you can call me "TC" if you want.

Hi TC,

"...how do you start your outdoor zinnia gardens in detail?"

I start a bunch of them a few weeks early in the 3.25-inch clear square pots like those that I pictured above in the Physan 20 phytotoxicity tolerance experiments. Zinnia seedlings can actually grow to the blooming stage in one of those pots, but that isn't a good idea. It is better to re-pot them to a bigger pot before they get to the flowering stage. When it comes time to set them out, or to re-pot them, it does help to let them get a little root-bound. That way, when it comes time to get them out of the pot, the root ball can fall out of the pot and keep it shape, almost as if it were in a peat pot, but without the hard shell.

The roots actually suffer no disturbance at all by dropping the seedling out of the pot into my hand. When setting them into the garden, I use a trowel to open up a little hole for the root-ball, set it in, push dirt snugly up to it, and with the trowel, score a little moat around it to hold water around it.

I get 18 pots per tray, and I will probably start about 8 or 12 trays for my early starts. The vast majority of my zinnias are sown directly into the ground in rows in beds that run east and west. I try to make as much use of the Sun and my garden space as I can. There is a trade-off between crowding in a lot of zinnias and leaving path space for easy access to my plants. I like to do my pollinating while seated on a rolling tractor seat or on a portable kneeling seat. So I need to leave a system of paths among the zinnia beds.

I know that I am going to cull my zinnias aggressively, so I do space them closer together than would otherwise be good, so that the culling leaves me with reasonable spacing between my "keeper" zinnias. I open up little furrows about an inch deep and drop the seeds in individually about 4 to 6 inches apart, and cover them about a half inch deep. And then I sprinkle the seed beds every day until the seedlings emerge. They are usually up in force in less than I week.

I don't plant them all at once, partly because I couldn't plant them all in one day, and a succession of plantings lets me distribute my efforts better. If all of my zinnias bloomed at once, I would be swamped with a culling task and a pollinating task. I will stretch my plantings out over two months or so. I'll stop planting zinnias about the middle of July. For here, that will still leave them plenty of time to develop many flowers per plant and to set viable seeds before frost.

I have used my Merry Tiller to nearly double my gardening space this year. In addition to zinnias, I will be growing a vegetable garden including tall sunflowers for seed, corn, tomatoes, eggplants, and a few other things. Zinnias will still get the "lion's share" of space, though.

We are having cool wet weather this week. No sign of a frost in the immediate future, but our "safe" no-frost date is still several weeks away. Although, with this weird weather, we actually may have had our last frost, and just don't know it yet.

I am lucky enough to have a study separate from the bedroom, so the lights don't interfere with sleep. I just close the bedroom door and let my zinnias be night owls. Their lights shut off automatically at 1 am.

We wish you good luck with your upcoming zinnia venture or adventure. I'll bet you will be posting some pictures of some interesting specimens this Summer.

ZM

{{gwi:24260}}Hi all,

A few more indoor zinnias have bloomed out, and this specimen may be a hybrid between the trumpet petaled specimen and a scabious specimen. In this closeup you can see that the central florets are rather unusual, in that they are "open", with accessible stigmas. I am back-crossing it with some of my trumpet petaled specimens. More later. Got to do a little lawn mowing before the rain hits again this evening.

ZM

Hi TC and ZM,

You both mentioned the strange weather. We are having that in Indiana, too. We've had a very mild winter, and an incredibly early spring. I can easily say we are a full month ahead of the usual growing season (so far!); that is, the trees are leafing out; the forsythias, crocuses, daffodils are past their peak; the tulips, redbud, crabapple, dogwood, plum, pear and cherry trees are in bloom; and the lilacs, apple trees, and peonies have buds.
I have never in my life seen such warm weather this far north so early! And I see that the new USDA hardiness zones are out, and in Indiana, zone 6 has migrated northward from near the Ohio River up to the central part of the state. I think in general, this is happening throughout the country.

I am weeding the gardens now, and am seeing that there are volunteer zinnias coming up and that many of my annual plants have overwintered!

I noticed in the T&M catalog that there is now a Queen Red Lime zinnia in addition to the the Queen Lime, but I will stay with the mixed offspring of the Queen Limes I had started several years ago. I haven't started any zinnias indoors this year. I usually do that when I have bought expensive seed (like 10 seeds in a pack) and I want to make sure I get as many as possible to grow-- so I set out one seed per peat pot under 14 hours of fluorescent light and a heating mat underneath--for transplanting outdoors. I have raised zinnias to maturity indoors, but not with 1/100 of the success of ZM, so I will be content to follow his postings! The last flowers, the golden and the pink, are very pretty! ZM, you have many lines of pretty, non-type zinnias!

TC, usually I till up my garden really well as early as is possible and when it is dry. Then, before it's time to plant the zinnias, I till it up one time again. I always incorporate lots of leaves and grass clippings to make the soil softer and easier for sowing and growing every year.
I stake out rows with twine then with a weeding tool draw a shallow line under the twine, sow the seeds in the rows, and cover with maybe a sixteenth inch of fine soil. I have other beds that are smaller, and there I set out the more expensive zinnias in their peat pots one at a time. If I plant seeds in more clay-like soil, I break it up as well as possible, spread out the seeds and cover them with a thin layer of vermiculite to avoid getting hardpan, and making it easier for them to emerge.

There is another way to start a new flower bed, as I have for vegetables this year....I don't really have a dedicated vegetable garden; I usually mix vegetables in with my flowers. But this year, I decided to start a new plot, not by breaking up sod, but by putting down 4-5 layers of black and white newspaper on top of the sod, wetting the paper down, then placing on top a 40 pound sack of topsoil (which has many holes poked into the bottom for drainage). I open a hole on top of each sack before planting, and leave about a two inch margin around the top, like so:

{{gwi:24261}}

You can put the seeds directly into the soil. When the season is over, remove the plastic of the bags; the ground has been mulched all season, and you can plow in topsoil, newspapers and soil beneath to create your new bed. Probably this soil is rich for zinnias, but it's a way to quickly start a garden and make the creation of a more permanent bed easier.

JG

Hi JG,

That no-till gardening scheme is fascinating. Have you done that before? I would be concerned, however, that my plant roots couldn't "find" the holes in the plastic bags. You may have made enough holes that it won't be a problem. Zinnia root systems can go down much deeper than the depth of the topsoil bags. The depth and spread of the roots is roughly equal to the height and spread of the above-ground plant. That is one reason why I quit breeding dwarf zinnias. They have comparatively wimpy root systems, which can be a disadvantage in a dry spell.

{{gwi:24262}}I continue to be encouraged by the results than show up in scabious-cross hybrids. This recombinant has more than one scabious ancestor, and it is a little different from "regular" scabious zinnias. It reminds me a bit of a carnation, and the dense center reminds me of some peonies I have seen. Many of its florets are partially open with accessible stigmas. I won't know if those stigmas were receptive to external pollen until seed-set time, or perhaps until I see its progeny.

I am starting to examine some of my older blooms for possible viable green seeds. I hope to be germinating some second generation zinnias soon, for setting out into the garden.

It was in the low 80's here today. It felt like early Summer. I really wonder if we haven't had our last frost already. One of our apple trees is now in bloom, and the pear trees as well. I have a few indoor zinnias that are kind of culls. I think I may set them into the garden in the next day or two as a kind of experiment.

ZM

Hey guys.
Thanks for the input ZM and JG.
I now have quite a few ideas about how to start a garden patch specifically for zinnias. I'll try my luck in the next couple days if I can muster the effort.

Earlier I posted "Right now I'm germinating a ton in a large pot [...]," and it's funny how that one pot turned into four or five pots of seedlings. I guess you can never have too many zinnias if you're willing to take care of them.
Each of the pots has a mix of spare dirt (mostly standard Miracle Gro and the citrus/cacti-oriented sort), a layer or two of compost (mostly ash from our wood stove, egg shells, other misc. stuff), and finally some dirt that was left outside to fill the pot some more. I figure they should be fine for the growing season in that mix, and I am happy to use up the rest of those bags of dirt.
{{gwi:24263}}
My ultimate goal is to emulate what a "commercial" pot of flowers may look like as well as figure out what the golden plant-to-pot ratio is for my lineage of zinnias. That way I can start somewhat smaller pots as gifts.

On the topic of transplanting the seedlings, I found that moving them asap after germination works best for me.
First I drill a small hole with whatever small twig I can find, then I pour a sip of water into the hole, then I pluck the zinnia seedling out as delicately as possible and lastly I clear the opening if needed and gently pack the seedling in. I then pour a little bit more to top it off and prop the seedling with the dirt as needed. I found that the zinnias will be very brittle and downright flimsy directly after this little switch, so it's best to do this operation late in the evening on a partly cloudy day and/or shade the pots until the sun goes down. By the morning the seedlings will be pointing to the sunrise like nothing even happened.
In an extreme case I once transplanted about 10-20 seedlings in this way at noon on a July day in the scorching heat and humidity. I shaded them with a board but even then it must have still been 90+. They slouched over completely and I just assumed they probably wouldn't make it. Came out later to check on everything and noticed that they were already perking back up in a matter of hours. By the next day it was like they were never even bothered.

Mostly by coincidence the pot that I used to germinate the seedlings has a completely different soil composition that seemed to work well for this use. I believe it was at one time a commercial mix that by now has weathered through many seasons outdoors and a couple indoors. It's mostly sterile by now, maybe a bit of nitrogen left over.
{{gwi:24264}}
They started sprouting indoors, and I moved them outside as soon as the weather allowed.
{{gwi:24265}}
These are the leftovers and more continue to sprout.
You can see that I really packed them in there. Makes for an interesting experience plucking them out but it does work if you pluck early. If you wait too long and let them grow, their roots will tangle and pulling them out unharmed becomes impossible.

ZM, the latest zinnia that you posted is absolutely stunning. If it were mine I would baby it as long as possible and try to get multiple clones from it. Then again, all of your results have been really nice. But I especially like this latest one.

Cheers to the nice weather.

Hi TC,

Your zinnia starting methods seem to be working for you, and that's fine. I prefer to start my zinnias directly in 3.5-inch square pots to avoid moving tiny delicate seedlings. I used to sow them in rows in flats of starting medium and transplant the seedlings to pots in a scheme rather similar to yours. But I am not that skillful handling delicate seedlings, and I accidentally killed a few seedlings doing that. I think they say to hold them by their seed leaves, and not by their stems, and I tried that, but either way I managed to snap a few stems or pull off the top part of the seedling. With seed packet seedlings, that is not so traumatic, because each seedling is not particularly "special". But with hand-hybridized seedlings, you have more "invested" in each seedling, so I adopted what I consider to be a safer methodology for me.

"Mostly by coincidence the pot that I used to germinate the seedlings has a completely different soil composition that seemed to work well for this use. I believe it was at one time a commercial mix that by now has weathered through many seasons outdoors and a couple indoors. It's mostly sterile by now, maybe a bit of nitrogen left over. "

It is interesting that you are successfully re-using some starting medium. With the scheme I use, all of my growing medium winds up going into the garden with zinnia plants that are being set out. So I have to buy more growing medium each year. I use one of the Premier ProMix BX products. I am currently using the "plain" version, but last year I used their "Mycorise Pro" version that contains a beneficial mycorrhizal inoculum (Glomus Intradices). They have a third version that contains a natural biofungicide that I haven't tried.

{{gwi:4934}}I share your admiration of that last specimen. I don't think I have ever had one with such a tightly-packed center. This is another specimen that is in bloom now that has a kind of carnation look. It, too, has scabiosa-flowered ancestry.

The commercial scabiosa flowered varieties all have a problem with purity of their strains. Some are much worse than others, but typically only one in two dozen will be "nice". For a person who just wants to buy a packet of seeds and grow a nice patch of zinnias, that could be "a deal breaker". I expect to cull a lot of zinnias, so pulling up a lot of off-type scabiosa flowered zinnias is acceptable to me, in order to get the few good ones. Scabious zinnias have some good traits besides their unusual flower form. Their hedge-style plants are very branching and floriferous and their stems are long enough to be used as cut flowers. I will continue to grow them, looking for that occasional extra good one, which I will use as a "breeder". Crosses with them continue to yield happy surprises.

ZM

Hi all,

Since I have spent a fair amount of time cross-pollinating my trumpet petaled zinnia specimen, a big part of my suspense in growing zinnias this year will be how well those "trumpet petaled" genes perform in combinatioin and recombination with other zinnia genes.

{{gwi:24266}}This indoor zinnia specimen gives me a lot of hope that the trumpet petaled genes can have a favorable influence on flower form, even when they don't appear in F1 hybrids as trumpet petals. I think it is possible that the trumpet genes have potentialities other than the trumpet petals, which by themselves aren't particularly desirable.

As I mentioned before, one of the "tells" of trumpet heritage is a preponderance of three-armed stigmas. The female parent of this hybrid was a scabious specimen that received trumpet pollen, and this zinnia has a lot of three-armed stigmas, so I think there is a high probability that it had my original trumpet-petaled zinnia as its male parent. Besides the three-armed stigmas, it has other subtle changes. The individual florets have a more open tulip-like shape, which exposes their stigmas to pollination.

Both blooms in this picture are on the same plant. The young bloom in this stage consists mostly of modified guard petals, which give it the look of a marigold. Those guard petal modifications may be the work of the trumpet genes. The mature bloom has increased in volume with many rows of florets to a nearly spherical shape. It seems that the trumpet genes have produced rather subtle changes to the individual scabious florets. But rather small changes in petal form or floret form can have a serendipitous combined effect on flower form. This nearly spherical zinnia bloom is just one example of what is possible.

I am growing offspring seedlings from several probable trumpet hybrids indoors, and I plan to start setting them out into the garden in about three weeks. As usual, I expect a high rate of culls, but I am also hopeful about possible new petal traits and flowerforms from the recombinations with the trumpet-petaled genes. More later. I can hardly wait to see those second generation zinnias start to bloom.

ZM

Hey,

I stumbled upon this site while looking for information about how to breed your own zinnias. I have five of them. The largest one has a bud waiting to pop and I can't WAIT till that happens. Then there are three medium ones that have 5-7 layers of leaves and are considerably shorter then the tallest one. Then there is my fifth one.

There MUST be something wrong with it. It has 5 sets of leaves and looks perfectly healthy HOWEVER it is only about as tall as the index finger. Could it be a genetic mutation? Could it simply be that I planted it in a smaller pot? Just wondering what you thought about it.

Hi andrearere,

"It has 5 sets of leaves and looks perfectly healthy HOWEVER it is only about as tall as the index finger. Could it be a genetic mutation?"

First of all, welcome to GardenWeb. And we are glad to have you here in this zinnia message thread. In answer to your question, your short zinnia could be a genetic mutation. There are also cultivars of zinnias that are naturally short. They probably started as mutations. For example, Thumbelina starts blooming when it is only about 3 inches tall and their plants fill out to produce little bushes only about 6 inches tall. You can get some interesting results by crossing Thumbelina with giant zinnias.

Just out of curiosity, what variety of zinnias did you plant to get your five zinnia plants?

Also, if it isn't too much trouble, we would be interested in seeing pictures of your zinnias. There are several ways of presenting pictures here. I upload mine to Photobucket and insert links to them here. There are several other ways of showing pictures here. But for the time being, verbal descriptions are just fine.

You are lucky that you got a possibly unusual zinnia in only five plants. And it is good that you are observant. Like you, I am curious about how that one whose bud is about to open will look.

ZM

{{gwi:24267}}

Well then... let's see if that will work...

If it DOES work then I'm sorry about the bad quality of the photo... I was using a terrible camera.

So... If you can see the photo, then you probably notice that the tiny zinnia is in a tiny pot. Besides its possibility of being a mutation, that is my second guess on why it might be so small. Also, you'll notice it only has four sets of leaves instead of five. Well the fifth set was on the very bottom (the baby leaves I guess) and they shriveled up and fell off. Since this happened with all of the zinnias, I'm assuming it's normal?

I really don't know what kind of zinnias they are. At school we were having a go green week and they gave everyone a pot and a choice of seeds. At the time, I picked the zinnia seeds because they looked so pretty on the bag. I stuck like five seeds in the hole I made with my finger and then carried the pot home.

When five little seedlings poked out of the ground, I decided to do some research about them. I transplanted them each into their own pot, using the meager supply of pots available. (well, that's not true, three of the plants SHARE a pot... but they are spread out so...)

I'm not really sure what I want to do with the middle sized ones that share a pot, but I think I am going to try and cross the tiny one and the big one together like you suggested. I can hand pollinate, right? (I did research on that too, seems easy enough)

Also, on that subject... My grandmother told me that scientists are developing some seeds that will only produce once, and then they just die... like they don't make new seeds or anything. She said you could still buy un-tampered with seeds, but if a bee with some of the tampered pollen mixed with your plant, the plant still wouldn't produce. I was just wondering if that was actually TRUE and if it is something I should worry about.

Hi Andrearere,

Judging from the picture, which is quite adequate for our purposes, I think the small one is small just because the pot it is in is so small. It's small root volume will keep it stunted. I doubt that it is a mutation. You seem to have done well with what you had available to you. Your zinnias are a little stretched, which means they probably don't have as much light as they would like in the window. But they seem to be growing OK so far.

"...the fifth set was on the very bottom (the baby leaves I guess) and they shriveled up and fell off. Since this happened with all of the zinnias, I'm assuming it's normal?"

That usually happens eventually. The new growth of zinnias sometimes "steals" nutrients from the older leaves, and the little seed leaves are the first to contribute. The mere fact that only the seed leaves have been affected so far means that your soil is pretty good. If zinnias have a nutrient problem, a lot of the lower leaves can be robbed of nutrients and die.

"My grandmother told me that scientists are developing some seeds that will only produce once..."

That is true. Seedless watermelons are a good example. You can buy seeds of seedless watermelon varieties, but since the watermelons are seedless, you obviously can't save seeds from them. Those seeds are produced by crossing a diploid (two sets of chromosomes) watermelon with a tetraploid watermelon (four sets of chromosomes) to produce triploid seeds (three sets of chromosomes). I grow seedless tomatoes (from Burpee) and obviously I can't save seeds from them. They are triploids. Anything with an odd number of sets of chromosomes is generally incapable of setting viable seeds. Commercial bananas are triploids, and hence seedless. Banana breeders work with diploid and tetraploid bananas that have seeds, and they have many odd bananas that have seeds. But people don't want to be spitting banana seeds, so the grocery store produce sections only get seedless triploid bananas. There are a few triploid marigold varieties that don't have viable seeds. Since they don't set seeds, they can produce more flowers without "going to seed".

After the danger of frost is passed where you live, you might want to transplant your zinnias outdoors to a sunny spot where their roots and they will have more room.

"She said you could still buy un-tampered with seeds, but if a bee with some of the tampered pollen mixed with your plant, the plant still wouldn't produce."

That is not something you need to worry about with your zinnias. Most zinnias are diploids, although there are a couple of tetraploid zinnia varieties (State Fair is the most common tetraploid zinnia). Let's say that a neighbor is growing some State Fair zinnias and a bee comes over to your diploid zinnias and accidentally dumps some State Fair pollen on them. If that happened, your zinnias could set some viable triploid seeds. Those seeds could grow into triploid zinnia plants, which could have pretty flowers, but couldn't set any viable seeds. They couldn't "go to seed" but they could continue to put out new flowers. You might even think that was a good thing.

Actually, we aren't sure that your zinnias aren't State Fair tetraploids. In which case, the bees could bring in some diploid zinnia pollen from a neighbor and create some triploid seeds that way. But either way is rather improbable. As far as I know, there is no seed company that produces triploid zinnia seeds. They would be expensive, and your grandmother would regard them as "tampered with" (grin). Triploid zinnia plants might be pretty good, though, for the same reason that triploid marigolds are good.

Keep us posted on your zinnia project. You have done quite well so far, transplanting successfully and growing inside successfully. Both of those things are not necessarily easy with zinnias. Your picture is quite helpful. Maybe you can find a spot outside where you can plant some more zinnias from seed planted directly in the ground. The more zinnias you can grow, the better your chances are of finding something especially good. Zinnias can be full of surprises.

ZM

Since I don't really have a backyard to plant the zinnias in, I decided to put them in bigger pots. I think the tiny one might make it, but the three that were together are probably going to die. I practically had to rip their roots to shreds to separate them. Since I know zinnias don't take kindly to their root systems being disturbed, I don't have much hope for them. I'm comforted by the fact that they would have choked themselves to death if I didn't separate them. Probably.

Hi Andrearere,

"I don't have much hope for them."

They might pull through, especially if you don't let their remaining roots dry out. They might not have choked themselves to death if you hadn't separated them. Sometimes, when I have more than one zinnia in a pot, I snip out all but the best looking plant. And sometimes I let them all grow until they bloom and pick my favorite bloom and snip out the competing plants.

Multiple zinnias in the same pot do suffer from the competition, and some may succumb from the competition. Occasionally all survive. Sometimes you will see several of the compact type zinnias growing well in a window box or a container that is bigger than a pot.

If you were able to dig up a small spot in your backyard, you could transplant your potted zinnias into it or possibly plant a few more zinnias. But you know your situation better than I do. I am fortunate to have a big space that I can garden in, and zinnias get a large part of it. Keep us posted on your potted zinnia project. I am currently transplanting my indoor zinnias into my outdoor garden.

ZM

My first fully outdoor zinnia of the year opened up today. Frustratingly, it looks exactly like the last few that I've grown.
{{gwi:24268}}

I had a bit of bad luck with the potting experiment because it turned out that 3/4 of the pots didn't have any holes drilled for drainage. The one that did drain is growing well. I lost a lot of little seedlings and a couple hours of work, but there's plenty more seeds and still time in the year. I'll get to planting more soon.

Hi TC,

"Frustratingly, it looks exactly like the last few that I've grown. "

Just out of curiosity, what variety of zinnias are you planting? Those small single zinnias don't "ring a bell" with me as to a particular variety. I guess they could be Profusions, only the leaf in your picture looks more like a Z. elegans (aka Z. violacea). I can see why you could feel frustrated with them. Although, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

{{gwi:24269}}I usually consider single zinnias as culls. However, I can make an exception when a single zinnia appeals to me. I took this picture a few minutes ago of a single that reminds me a bit of the one in your picture, except the petals on this specimen are a little bit like small Pitcher Plants. Ironically, a tiny insect appears to be emerging from one of them. This zinnia is a recombinant from a hybrid between a descendent of my original trumpet-petaled mutant and one of my "regular" zinnias. I hope to get some better recombinations of the trumpet genes and other zinnia genes.

I think you should purchase some new zinnia seeds that appeal to you more, and plant them outdoors. Since you are also in Zone 5b, you should have a lot of growing season left. I make succession plantings of zinnias up until the middle of July. I think you have plenty of time to shop for zinnia seeds more to your liking and start over.

ZM

"Just out of curiosity, what variety of zinnias are you planting?"
I'm not positive myself, since it's a mix of a lot of different varieties from last year. If I had to guess, I'd say it's an F2 or F3 Z. elegans.
The bugs around here seem to prefer pink to any other color.
Here's another flower that is opening:
{{gwi:24270}}
In a couple weeks it should be really pretty!

Okay I officially have two zinnia flowers and they are BEAUTIFUL! However, I also have a few questions. First, here are the flowers:

{{gwi:24271}}

This one is the one that I said earlier was "getting ready to pop". Well it did. And after many technical difficulties, I finally managed a prettyish picture. However, this zinnia has a "minor" problem. It won't "stand up". What could be causing that? Is it fixable?

{{gwi:24273}}

------------------------------------------------------------

{{gwi:24275}}

This is my second flower. It started opening a couple of days ago. Despite it's drastic curve in its stem, I think it is beautiful as well... but its petals are kinda funky... Is that normal? Or is it a defect?

{{gwi:24277}}

------------------------------------------------------------

{{gwi:24279}}

Here is another one of my zinnias. I think it is doing pretty well and is likely to open any day now, but I do have a question about its leaves. If you look really closely, there are parts of them that are white. And these parts have purple veins. I think it looks quite pretty, but I'm worried its not simply a defect, but a disease or lack of nutrition or something as well. What do you think?

{{gwi:24281}}

Just wanted to know what your opinion was, please write back.

^If you pinch them back, you'll get bushier plants...would that help with the legginess problem?

Hi TC,

"...it's a mix of a lot of different varieties from last year."

That last bloom is looking much larger. The structure of its center looks a bit unusual.

I still think you might enjoy growing some "new blood" with a packet or two of commercial zinnias. I plan to grow some commercial Whirligigs, and some Burpee Hybrids and Burpeanna Giants from Burpee, just to add to my zinnia gene pool.

One thing I have noticed is that I don't have any good big white zinnias, and I will be looking for cactus flowered whites, which I will mainly self or cross with other whites. White zinnias kind of intrigue me, because I know that many zinnia colors are based on natural dyes (magenta, violet, yellow, etc) that occur in the petals, but I don't know of any white "dye" or pigment that occurs in zinnias, so I am curious about what makes the white in white zinnia petals. It must be some specialized cells of some sort.

"The bugs around here seem to prefer pink to any other color."

Are any butterflies visiting your zinnias yet? I am seeing butterflies and hummingbirds in my zinnia patch. Anyway, keep showing us pictures of your zinnias.

ZM

Hi Andrearere,

That big yellow zinnia looks great. You might want to pick it in a few days and put it in a vase inside. That will let the plant develop side branches and more flowers.

"...but its petals are kinda funky... Is that normal? Or is it a defect?"

Zinnia petals can take on many different forms. Those upturned petals are just one form. I kind of like them, and do not consider it a defect. The participant JG has had some extremely upcurled petals in the last couple of years that really give her zinnia flowers a different look. I hope JG is able to establish that petalform as a strain, and she has had some success in that direction. You can find some pictures of JG's extreme curl zinnias if you look backward in this series of message threads.

"If you look really closely, there are parts of them that are white. And these parts have purple veins. I think it looks quite pretty, but I'm worried its not simply a defect, but a disease or lack of nutrition or something as well. What do you think?"

I think it might be some kind of mutation. Save seeds from that plant and see if its progeny have the same effect.

ZM

Donna,

"If you pinch them back, you'll get bushier plants..."

I totally agree with you, that you can get bushier zinnia plants by pinching them. Or you can pick the flowers to encourage more flowers. And, unless you deliberately want to save seeds, you should deadhead them to extend their blooming time. I like to give my zinnia plants room to grow, like in this picture.

{{gwi:24283}}
I did not pinch these plants, because I wanted to see what their flowers would look like as soon as possible. I want to cull them if I don't like their flowers. But, as you can see, zinnias tend to be bushy if they have room to grow and don't have to stretch to try to get more light. However, I agree with you. Pinching out the central growing point even before it forms a bud will give you much bushier zinnias. If you pinch the side branches, too, you get some really nice zinnia plants. In the interests of speeding up my zinnia breeding, I usually want to see the central flower as soon as possible. If I like the flower, I can remove it to get more flowers on side branches. If I don't like the flower, I can remove the plant to make more room for the other plants, and more room for me to get in to pollinate and cross-pollinate my zinnias.

If you are growing any zinnias, we would like to see pictures of them. But you made a good comment.

ZM

Dear Anyone Who Cares,

Okay so I'm supposed to pick the flower? As a rookie zinnia breeder... how do I do that? (sorry if that sounds too... interrogative?

Andrearere123

Oh, and a few more questions... How do I know if the seeds are ready? I've pulled out a couple petals in a vain attempt to see them for myself. I think its pollinated, but not sure if its matured.

Also, how exactly do I pinch the flower off... Do I just rip it off? Cut it off? Won't that kill the plant? If I take the flower off, will I still be able to harvest a couple seeds (which brings me right back to my previous question)

PLEASE write back. I'm dying to know these answers.

Hi Andrearere,

"Okay so I'm supposed to pick the flower? As a rookie zinnia breeder... how do I do that?"

I would cut the stem with scissors at a point about where the arrow is pointing in this picture.

{{gwi:24285}}
Scissors will make a clean cut without damaging the plant. As an alternative to scissors, you can use a hand pruner if you have one. Some are actually made especially for cutting flowers. But almost any pair of scissors will do for cutting zinnia flowers.

"Also, how exactly do I pinch the flower off... Do I just rip it off? Cut it off? Won't that kill the plant?"

Scissors again. They won't kill the plant.

"How do I know if the seeds are ready? I've pulled out a couple petals in a vain attempt to see them for myself. I think its pollinated, but not sure if its matured."

Viable green seeds are noticeably fat and heavy as compared to unpollinated seeds, which are empty and light.

{{gwi:1020}}
If you plan to store the green seeds for planting later, you should let them dry out for a week or two. If you plan to plant them immediately, they will germinate much faster if you open the seed coat in some way to give the embryo inside access to water.

{{gwi:12539}}
The reason for doing that is that the seed coat of a green seed is alive and impervious to water. You can plant green seeds without breaching the seed coat, but they will take much longer to germinate because they have to wait until the seed coat dies and becomes permeable to water. That can take several weeks.

"If I take the flower off, will I still be able to harvest a couple seeds..."

Yes. You can display a zinnia flower or flowers in a vase for a few days, and then harvest green seeds from the flowers. I have done that on occasions. If you get a bouquet containing zinnias from a florist, there is a chance you can extract viable seeds from those flowers as well.

ZM

Hmm...

After examining my zinnia seeds... I think the plant is infertile... How do I fix that? Do I need two zinnia's flowering at the same time? I thought that a zinnia could self pollinate. Mentioning that... what are a zinnia's pollinators? I haven't seen any butterflies or hummingbirds like you mention in later strains... but there was a white spider for awhile and a couple beetle and/or fly looking bugs. And a wasp. I will cut the zinnia tonight, but how long will it take for the plant to start growing again?

Please write back soon!

Andrearere123

Hey andrearere123, you may not be finding seeds like shown above because you would be pulling the petals out before the seeds have developed.
Pretty much everything that touches the flower will pollinate it. The wind can pollinate it. Bugs can get pollen lodged onto them and release it where needed within the same flower. On a small scale, each pollen is like a small orb that need only to land on the receptor (called a Stigma) to impregnate that particular seed.
The new shoots are already in place given you cut the stem where ZM pointed out. You should expect to see a new flower within a couple weeks, and new growth should be noted within a few days. Eventually there will be more than a single flower on the same plant.
Don't worry about it, it'll be beautiful again in a couple weeks!

Hi Andrearere,

"...what are a zinnia's pollinators?"

As TC said, anything that can potentially knock the pollen from the floret to the stigma can pollinate a zinnia, including you. However, the primary pollinators are pollen gathering bees, including honeybees, bumblebees, carpenter bees, etc. The nectar feeders, like butterflies and hummingbirds, probably do a negligible amount of pollinating.

"Do I need two zinnia's flowering at the same time? I thought that a zinnia could self pollinate."

Zinnias can self pollinate, and the seeds that are borne at the end of the yellow star-shaped pollen florets are almost always selfed.

"I think the plant is infertile..."

It is not producing a lot of pollen, but there is a pollen floret showing in your closeup picture, near the center at about the 4 o'clock position. It is not showing up too plainly because the floret is yellow and the petals are yellow. Later flowers on the plant may produce more pollen. TC has answered your question of when you can expect a new flower after cutting this one. There is a variety of zinnias called "Cut and Come Again" that goes along with the idea that zinnias can product new flowers after you cut off the current flowers. Some varieties are better at that than others. I have had zinnia plants with 50 or more flowers open at the same time. However, most zinnias aren't so floriferous.

ZM

Hey ZM,
"The structure of its center looks a bit unusual."
I noticed that after looking at it for a while.
It looks like three smaller flowers jammed into one - almost like the giant tomato varieties compared to the cherry tomato flowers.
As it's growing more, it's only getting weirder, too.
{{gwi:24290}}
I followed your advice and transplanted my zinnias from pot to ground, and sprinkled a few new varieties in those pots just to spice things up. A couple are already popping up, probably because of the immense heat we experienced yesterday. It was around 95f for the official high, and we cooled off with a nice high of 83 for today. The heat isn't helping the zinnias that I transplanted, but my other plants sure seem to enjoy it.

Hi TC,

It looks like the center of that zinnia has subdivided into three different centers!!! That could be a mutation. I definitely would save seeds from that specimen to see what you get. There is plenty of time left to grow those seeds this year and save seeds from the progeny this Fall.

Right now, I would be rubbing some of those pollen florets on the stigmas at the base of the petals to maximize the number of seeds that you get. The pollen is freshest and most viable in the morning. And if you have bees, you have to get to the pollen before the bees do.

More later. I am putting together a butterfly feeder to put in my zinnia patch. That zinnia is getting interesting. Keep us posted on what it does.

ZM

Over the last few days, its gotten REALLY windy and my zinnia's leaves are starting to droop... I'm watering them just like I always do, but they just seem to get worse... I'm afraid I might lose them, what should I do?

Andrearere

Hi Andrearere,

"I'm afraid I might lose them, what should I do?"

Move the pots to a spot that is sheltered from the wind. If you can find some larger containers, repot them to larger containers. The problem may be that your zinnia's root systems aren't large enough to support the upper plants.

ZM

Just wanted to share a zinnia that opened recently:
{{gwi:24291}}
I had a similar one last year, so it's nice to see this color again.

Hi TC,

That is an unusual pale pastel pink. And the darker color of the center coordinates with the petals. I would be tempted to cross that with a white cactus flowered zinnia, to get that combination in a bigger flower with cactus-style petals.

I continue to be amazed at how many different colors zinnias can show. A few decades ago, Burpee introduced a strain of pastel colored cactus zinnias. It was named Luther Burbank in honor of the plant breeder, who, I have heard, supplied Burpee with his zinnia seed stock.

Like many good zinnia strains, Luther Burbank zinnias are no longer in the marketplace. I suspect that Luther Burbank zinnias were created by crossing various zinnia colors with good white zinnias.

Which reminds me, that I don't have any good white cactus zinnias at the present time. I am considering planting a separate bed of just white zinnia strains, in search of some extra good white specimens to intercross. I have some white cactus zinnia seed that I got from Hazzard's. I am hoping that, by having that bed at least 100 feet from my main zinnia garden, there will be only a small amount of contamination of the white zinnias with colored zinnia pollen by bees. Time will tell if that works. I assume you are going to save seed from that zinnia in the picture.

ZM

Hi all,

I have quite a few zinnias in bloom now. I am glad that some of the progeny of the trumpet-flowered mutant are coming true to the type.

{{gwi:24292}}
I have several other progeny of the trumpet flowered mutant in bloom. I feel fairly confident that it is "in my gene pool" and that I will be seeing more progeny in the future. So far there has been no "knock your socks off" recombination involving the trumpet-style petals, but I am optimistic that if I grow enough recombinations with the trumpet genes that I will get something good. More later. This is a busy time for me.

ZM

That's cool, ZM. I don't particularly like the trumpet shape but it's definitely unique. Could start by trying to get the color into a golden yellow and then try to fix it so you could have a "golden trumpet" line. That could be really popular.

I discovered a unique coloring in one of my zinnias recently:
{{gwi:24293}}
I had no multi-colored zinnias last year, but this one came from the saved seeds. I liked it a bit more a few days ago when the pink gradient was more prominent. I think it's a mix between the "Red King" zinnias and my own random pink sort from last year. I did plant a few different types last year... random/unknown, Red King, a couple Zahara, and a couple Purity.

Hi TC,

It's interesting that you got a bi-color zinnia from apparently non-bicolor parents. Zinnias are full of surprises. I may have an unjustified prejudice against single zinnias, because I frequently cull them. Actually, single zinnias can look quite nice in the landscape. And butterflies and hummingbirds appreciate their usual abundant presentation of pollen florets.

I do like multicolored zinnias, and a quick way to get some multicolored specimens that you like is to grow some Whirligig zinnias. The Whirligigs at Stokes Seeds are an economical source of multicolored zinnias with a preponderance of double flowers. The Whirligigs at Parks are a good source of multicolors with a preponderance of daisy-like singles. From either source, you are getting a field-grown mixture, so some of them are random F1 hybrids, courtesy of the bees. Happy surprises are almost guaranteed.

I prefer the doubles, so I purchased a quarter pound of the Whirligigs from Stokes, and I am still "working on" that package of seeds from last year. I intend to plant the rest of them this year, and select for flower forms that I like. I will be looking for specimens with long narrow petals, like this one.

{{gwi:16169}}
Crossing selected Whirligigs with other zinnias is a fun thing to do. I guess the bees enjoy that, too. This year I hope to renew my search for good "spider flowered" zinnias. I hope to get them in bicolor and tricolor forms as well.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

This is another example of a Whirligig from last year that had a flower form that I liked.

{{gwi:19230}}
This one didn't have nearly as much upcurl to its petals as jackier_gardener's "extreme curl" specimens, but it is a step in that direction. JG's extreme curls have inspired me. Whirligigs have a variety of flower forms, and this year I hope to select a few good ones for further development.

ZM

Hi everyone!

I've not been too active on this thread, but enjoy reading all the posts here! I have been holding my breath as far as rain goes....I planted my zinnias on May 16, and we've had a total of 0.05 inches of rain since! I watered the seeds finally with a watering can to get them germinated...and they have been on hold ever since...I think they live on what condensation appears early in the mornings! I finally watered the plants two days ago in anticipation of this very hot spell. I've been conservative with the water because we are on a well. On average, the plants are about 5-6" high now with some trying to put out buds. This is the worst gardening season I have ever seen!

The bags of topsoil I had used earlier worked fine for the early season crops, but when the dry weather took hold, I took the majority of the soil out of the bags, as I could see my first several tomato plants were struggling. You were right, ZM, the bags just don't cut it when hot, dry weather sets in. I'm finding, too that the topsoil I had in those bags is a terrible absorbant for water...I'll take my garden soil over that any time! Water actually rolls off the growing mixes, too, when they are hot and dry. I wonder why some sort of wetting agent isn't added!
Damping off surely isn't a problem now...

Those trumpet flowers are very interesting, ZM! I am so glad you have a hereditary trait there! Please keep posting those photos! I've got a number of Extreme Roll progeny coming up..it will probably be some time before I see any flowers or can show any photos! And there, I am optimistic...

JG

Hi JG,

It's good to hear from you again, JG. Please forgive me for referring to your "Extreme Roll" zinnias as "Extreme Curl". The word "roll" is much more appropriate for the geometry of their petals than the word "curl". I should have referred back to your messages instead of relying on my memory. Let's have a drum roll for Extreme Roll. Maybe that can serve as a mnemonic for me.

"I've got a number of Extreme Roll progeny coming up..it will probably be some time before I see any flowers or can show any photos! And there, I am optimistic... "

I am very hopeful that you will get some more Extreme Roll specimens. I have never seen a zinnia like them and, because they are so unique, their flowers have a magical look. I hope they get a permanent place in zinniadom.

"I'm finding, too that the topsoil I had in those bags is a terrible absorbant for water...I'll take my garden soil over that any time! Water actually rolls off the growing mixes, too, when they are hot and dry. I wonder why some sort of wetting agent isn't added!"

I wonder, too. I have a bag of Peat Moss that I had intended to use for inside gardening, but when it gets dry, it is just like you described. Water sets on top of it in beads. It takes forever for it to absorb the water. I'm going to give up on it and incorporate it in some outdoor garden soil. There is a small flower bed at the front of the house that I think I will incorporate it into, along with a dose of fill sand.

I think that Miracle-Gro is advertising some growing mixes that are kind of foolproof, and I think they also have some of those water absorbing crystals and the mix also kind of expands when it gets watered. And it may have a plant-friendly wetting agent. The TV ads for it look kind of enticing. It probably costs too much to use on a large scale, but I can see how it would be appropriate for small high-value flower beds.

I am building another compost pile. Weeds and lawn clippings are an almost inexhaustible source of organic matter in this rural environment. Well rotted compost and sand are two of my favorite soil amendments.

I mentioned a plant friendly wetting agent. Obviously there are such things. In the past I have used small amounts of Dawn dishwashing detergent in some of my foliar sprays. I am not sure of the chemistry of Dawn, but I have seen them using it to wash oil slicks off of waterfowl, so it is at least "bird friendly". However, some detergents are phytotoxic to plants. Some detergents can act as herbicides. I suppose I should do some experiments with Dawn on zinnias. I currently have some Tween 20 and Tween 80 that I have used in my indoor gardening. They are food grade, so hopefully they are safe to use. But I haven't done experiments with them to determine at what levels they might be phytotoxic.

"I finally watered the plants two days ago in anticipation of this very hot spell. I've been conservative with the water because we are on a well. On average, the plants are about 5-6" high now with some trying to put out buds. This is the worst gardening season I have ever seen! "

Same here. I have been using a lawn sprinkler on my zinnia patch to keep it from "burning up". And we have a rural well, too, and it will "run dry". When I see the water pressure starting to drop off, I turn off the sprinkler. The well recovers in a few hours. But this heat wave is going to be a continual problem for our well capacity.

This close-up of a trumpet-petal recombinant shows the petals in some detail. It is a single bloom, and single zinnias are usually culls for me.

{{gwi:24294}}
But I am keeping this one around because it has an unusual "look". The petals remind me a bit of pitcher plants. That little beetle peeking out of a pitcher petal confirms that this is not a carnivorous plant. I do wonder, though, if a variation of this flower form could develop nutrient absorption capabilities that could produce a carnivorous strain of zinnias. Admittedly, that would be a real "stretch". But zinnias continue to surprise me with their odd variations.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

That "Pitcher Plant" zinnia has since become very floriferous.

{{gwi:24295}}
It's really not very attractive, but I will save seeds from it, in case some of its recombinant offspring look better.

ZM

ZM,

Your Pitcher Plant zinnia does have a lot of flowers! Good, because you'll also be able to collect more seeds from it. Selfing it shouldn't be too bad--you've got a lot of pollen, there, too. Will you be crossing different pitcher progeny, too?

Germination wasn't the best for me this year for the unusual crosses..all the seed coming from Extreme Roll outcrosses didn't make it, nor did any seed from my selfed, tubular, pitcher-like plants make it! That may be a result of them being less fit, or just random bad luck!

I had what I thought were a lot of Profusion offspring growing up, but I can see now that I am getting volunteers from last years' haageanas!

We still have no rain...gone are the days of taking rain for granted as I have in the past! We are now in a "severe drought" area. I have to say though that among all my plants, once germinated, the zinnias are real troopers. It's a welcome sign to see some of them start to bloom, while many of the other flowers are just giving up.

I tried blueberries for the first time this year, and I know they would rather be in Maine. The leaves are burning up, although they are getting lots of water, applied right at the base of the small bushes.

JG

Hi JG,

"Will you be crossing different pitcher progeny, too?"

I will, and I will be crossing different variations of the trumpet petaled genes, and out-crossing them to non-trumpet breeders as well.

"...but I can see now that I am getting volunteers from last years' haageanas!"

I got a few volunteers, but only one of them made breeder status. It was an echinacea flowered specimen. I probably would have gotten a lot more volunteers if I had not graded my zinnia patch to make it more level. A lot of zinnia seeds probably got buried under several inches of soil during that leveling process. I am not a "winter sowing" enthusiast, but I think I will plant a few "volunteers" early next year.

"We still have no rain...gone are the days of taking rain for granted as I have in the past!"

Same here. I water my zinnias with a lawn sprinkler when they start to show signs of wilting. When I plant zinnia seeds, I don't depend on rain, even if the storm clouds are beariong down. Rain is just too fickle to depend on it. We are starting to string 100-plus days together now.

"I tried blueberries for the first time this year, and I know they would rather be in Maine."

I never tried to grow blueberries, not even when we lived in Maine and had a favorable climate for them. It used to be there were a lot of wild blueberries that were picked for export. I understand that now there are a few fancy hybrid-bred varieties of blue berries for commercial farming. If blueberries really "catch on", I think plant breeders will create different blueberry varieties for different growing conditions. That has been done for grapes.

I have "branched out" and planted some seed sunflowers, tomatoes, corn, watermelons, okra and muskmelons and cantaloups. They got a late start, but I guess some of them may be part of a Fall garden.

ZM

Hi everyone,

This message thread has passed the 100 mark, and is understandably somewhat slow to load, so I am continuing it over at It can be fun to breed your own zinnias - Part 18 for a "fresh" start.

I look forward to seeing you all over there.

ZM