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Morning glories and other viney things - training them

Posted by Claire_W 6 (My Page) on
Sun, May 15, 05 at 12:23

Hi all
I've been following with great interest the lovely thread about morning glories; I now have a more specialised question, and that is if my morning glories and hyacinth beans and cardinal climbers are going to want to go up vertically, does anyone have experience of helping them to go sideways? My deck has a fence round it that is about 4 1/2' high, they are just not going to have anywhere to go up after that . . . . I was going to "help" them sideways as they grow towards the top, then imagined they would just "have" to go horizontally . . . .
Any thoughts anyone???


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

It's funny but with all the stuff I have out there, I also have all kinds of vines (sometimes I forget.... LOL). Cardinal Climbers, Hyacinth Bean vines, Scarlet Runner Beans, Moonflowers, Morning Glories, Honeysuckles, Clematis, Mandevilla, Bougainvillea, Stephanotis, Passifloras, Hoyas... I am even going to try some winter squash this year. Sometimes its wild to see the vines all trying to attach to one another. ;-)

The different vines attach differently. But the ones you mention are twiners so you just have to guide them to the support, which in your case, you may have to create - ie., some wire or string if you don't have thin rails on the deck (an inch or less). Basically you have to go out there every day or so and just position the growing tip to its support in order to help it wrap around the support. Otherwise it'll try to grow vertically until it's too heavy to grow any higher and it'll fall over in a clump.


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

Hi again Jenny
My deck rails are quite large, about 3"; I hadn't thought of that. Right, string etc here I go! But I was wondering, should I let them go vertically and then pinch them out when they get to the top, or try and encourage them from the start to go diagonally thereby giving me more cover. What do you think?

PS just had a look at your page again, you've posted some new pics haven't you? Fabulous!! You've made such a lovely garden up on your balcony! Well done you.


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

You can use that clear nylon fishing wire as a support too. I know people have posted that suggestion in the past and in fact, a couple right here on this forum posted pictures showing how they secured the nylon into different patterns (including diagonals) and trained the MGs along it. It looked pretty too! If you wanted to cover the bottom of the rail, you could train them diagonally from the beginning. Only thing is, they tend to do alot of vining before they finally start blooming so the blooms may end up at the top of the rail unless you start running them back down the support again. You could pinch a growing tip and depending on how vigorously they are growing, they should branch.

Thanks for the complements on the pics. Soon as some of my stuff explodes into bloom (potentially this week with the lilacs and weigelas), I'll replace a few showing what they look like this year. My James McFarlane lilac is probably almost 2ft taller than the current picture on the member page (which was taken a couple years ago). It is loaded with soon-to-open blooms this year.


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - Followup

Just as a followup, some of the threads from last year and the year before are still around.

There was a poster here named "Ruggy" who did the fishing line support. He has pictures of how it went here.

There was a related thread here with some interesting ideas of how to do this.


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

I have heard that you can pinch morning glories right away, when they only have a few sets of leaves, and that will encourage more stems and more bushiness. They are still vines, so they won't actually form a compact, bushy plant, but in your case, since you want them to grow horizontally and not as much vertically, it would proabably be best to pinch them right away and then train them horizontally or diagonally.


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

Jenny thanks for the thread info, I had seen Ruggys pics but not Kellys. I can't use thread to go up from my balcony as I'm at the top, there's no-where to go! I do have some extra trellis that I've put up where I need extra privacy, so will let the vines romp away on those high areas . . . . Sahoyaref what you have mentioned is exactly what I hope will work - I really want to try and get a plane of growth as opposed to Ruggys long strands. Perhaps I should pinch some out and not others, see what they all do!

I certainly am going to spend considerable time and effort to try and get them right. I am going to arrange each and every leaf and twining growth, as many times and with as many bits of string as required! Gardening in a space so much smaller than I'm used to, I'm even contemplating dead heading my trailing lobelia, using tiny scissors to cut off individual teeny dead flowers, just to be able to spend enough time pottering about out there! (Picture link there showing some of the stuff I usually have happening at this time of year, where my home is in south-west Ireland).

So hopefully pinching out, fishing line going from what supports I can find, plus TLC and attention, will achieve the desired effect.

Many thanks!
Claire.

Here is a link that might be useful: May 10th 2004


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

Hi, Claire

At first I was kind of chuckling about you looking for things to do in order to spend enough time out there. And then I remembered, early last August, it wasn't enough for me just to sit out there and sip iced tea; I needed things to DO :-D So I started ordering seeds and perennials for fall delivery like mad. I am afraid the trellis I planned for my MGs is too thick, so I may be with you in training every tendril and leaf. Just wondering what I will do when it gets beyond my reach :-D


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

  • Posted by Ruggy Zone 5 (My Page) on
    Tue, May 17, 05 at 19:32

Did I hear my name? LOL Howdy fellow gardeners!

I'm not repeating the fishing line trellis this year, at least not so far... things could change on a daily basis... LOL it was lovely and gave a nice cozy feeling the balcony, but it was a bear to clean up and I broke some of the strings during that process...

So this year I've put chicken wire up along the smaller balcony and planted boxes of morning glories under that... kind of an experiment... I'm not sure how the MG's are going to react, but I guess I'll find out! I'm hoping they fill in and make a fairly solid wall of vegation...

And I just might have maintainence install some new hooks on that balcony so that I can put some fishing line up for some height before it's all over with :0)

It's good to be back to gardening!!!!


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RE: Morning glories etc.

Thats the trouble with a small garden area Meg isnt it? You start looking around for more stuff to do! We will have to compare notes on how our MGs do on their too-wide trellises! And Ill keep you posted on my dead-heading Ive already decided that if needs be I will actually dead-head the trailing lobelia one little teeny tiny flower at a time, just to get the required therapeutic dose of tending!

So Ruggy you are having a change this year . . . . thats a shame I thought your diamond shapes were really good. As for taking them down, naughty from a recycling point of view but I think I would have just cut the lot down string and all! But chicken wire is a great substance, from the sound of other posts your MGs will like that. Though it seems funny to think of chicken wire 10 floors up in an apartment building, I always see it as such an agricultural item!


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

Hey Ruggy - good to see you again! :-D Yeah, your hard work last year became famous. LOL

The chicken wire sounds like an interesting idea - for any vine in fact. Seems like that would also be really good for those who have partitions between balconies and who need/want to run vines up against those.


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

  • Posted by Ruggy Zone 5 (My Page) on
    Wed, May 18, 05 at 19:51

It was quite upsetting when the fishing line broke, I was looking forward to using it again... unfortunately, the memory of standing on a step-ladder trying to get the fishing line through the hooks dozens of times way up on the 10th floor is a little too fresh in my mind to redo it just yet (fear of heights here)... maybe next year I'll get brave again... LOL

I'm very happy to hear that the chicken wire has promise!!! The new MG's are only about a week old, but that's a good time for the first pics... LOL So there's the setup as it is right now on this posting...

Here is a link that might be useful: Ruggy's 2005 Morning Glories


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

Hey Ruggy, your chicken wire looks very good. Very neat job! You know I'm sure you could make a gadget to get the fishing line up to the hooks, if you did want to put some more up, you could use a long stick with a nail in the end at right angles and hold the fishing line up with that and just hook it over. You'd have to hold the line taut but I think it would work . . . you might have to if your MGs want to go up up up!


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

That's exactly what I did last year. I didn't like it because the flowers got squished in the chicken wire. I took it out this year in favor of a trellis and string . I'll let you know how it works out. That is, if my MGs don't drown. LOL


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

I'm so glad I found this thread. You guys have inspired me to check out morning glories. I can't believe how quickly they grow. Right now, I have a pot of potato vines. Ruggy, wow! I've thought about chicken wire several times. Thanks for the pics!

-Valencia


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

I have a pretty wire trellis and I attached string in between the upright wires. I think it'll work better than the chicken wire. But like you all, I'm experimenting. BTW, this is a self-watering pot.


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

I have wooden railings on my second floor porch deck and I bought some of these plastic hooks w/green ties that you glue to the wood and then train your vines up and tie them. So I have my moonflower vine and grandpa otts trailing up the banister and so far it's working. I'm also growing tomatoes out there, two varietes each in a 5 gallon container. So far the Buck's County Hybrid is taking off like gangbusters and I'm afraid it's going to outgrow my balcony. The other variety I have is Fourth of July and that's not quite as big. I fertilized them about a week ago with Fish and Seaweed Emulsion, which they obviously love because they are getting awfully big! Any of you growing Tomatoes? What do you use to hold them up?

Linda


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

This year I'm growing Cherokee Purple and San Marzano tomatoes. The latter is a determinant I believe so it shouldn't be much of an issue. What I've done in the previous few years is start the 'maters off with a plastic bamboo stake (6ft) and then I would cage them with a configurable 3-panel vegetable fence, which I believe is a little less than 4ft tall. You can surround the container with it in the shape of a triangle or what I did was to surround it in a square pattern where the open side would be against the balcony rail. The panel grid openings are spaced about 6" apart so a branch can go through it and be supported.

Here's what I had last year (Cherokee Purple and Marianna's Peace):

The 2 plants ended up over 7ft tall and I had to add an extension to the stake.


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

Jenny, that's a good idea, I was thinking of using some type of bamboo shoot to support the vines and then just tie them, but I may try it this way. Glad to see I'm not the only person growing inderterminates in a container on my balcony.


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

Oh yeah. There's alot of folks who grow indeterminants in containers. It's not a problem growing these in containers and no one should have to be restricted to "dwarf" or determinant plants for container growing!


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

Hello All,
I just wanted to add my MG experience as well as ask
some maintenance questions.
I'm doing the fishing line thing with my MG. I first
planted Grandpa Ott- deep purple, and then the light
blue variety, not sure of the name. I planted them
against a stark white wall near my entrance. I nailed
some nails on a piece of wood and tied the fishing line
on that, buried it behind the MG
and then strung them up in a fan shape. The
ends are attachted up on a board at the top
of the wall. ( i'll post pics later).
The first varitey were incredible as they were
growing up the lines, deep purlple flowers
with deep green foliage against a stark white wall.
The second variety is more lush and green with big
light blue flowers. they look good now.
The problem now is that Grandpa Ott keeeps climbing up,
and bottom half looks raggedy and messy. Dead flowers
and leaves turning brown.
How should I maintain the vines so the look good always.
I plan on taking down the whole thing in the fall,
since the house is going to be painted then. So if this
is just the way MO grow I'll leave it be, but can I
do something so they look as good as when they first
started out?

thanks.

( pics will follow soon )


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

I have trained my Morning Glory's to go sideways at the top of the railing but using plastic hooks that glue on the wooden railing and then training the vines around the hooks or through them with green ties that come with the hooks. So far it's working out great! I put them up the railing until the get to the top and then I have them going sideways along the banister. I have two varieties of MGs, Moonflowers and Cardinal Climbers all along my banisters.


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

I have a deck and ot a balcony but I have been container gardening for many years. I love it and if I lived in a regular house with a yard I would still container garden. I am trying morning glories this year and so far they are not in bloom. I live in Toronto ontario canada. I am snipping them back and I ran string up the devider between our house and the one next door. this is working but I to have the problem with the leaves thinning out at the bottom.

I was wondering with the trellis if you could put the string on and then put the trellis up. I actually like the idea and might try it next year. That is if my cousin who owns the house has not built the custom trellis she has promised me for the last year. LOL she is using copper tubbing/pipe and the one in the front of the house is really nice and the monrning glories love it. She put copper wire stars in the centre and the MG's are training up it really nice. I only had a few left and put them in there. Glad I did not put in more.

Well this was more of a fallow up them I had planed on. Sorry about that
Rhyan


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

Abrarage - I'm beginning to have the same problem with my Grandpa Otts MG's. They were beautiful for weeks and now the bottoms of the vines are looking ragid and leaves are turning yellow and falling off. I'm not really sure there's too much that can be done at this stage of the game but I'm not an expert either. I'm still waiting for my Heavenly Blue MGs to bloom and also my Scarlet Cardinal Climber. Oddly enough my Moonflowers have begun to bloom and I thought they would be the last out of all my vines to do anything.


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

Hi All!

I've planted a couple of my MG plants in a rectangular pot (about 8 inches deep) and placed it on my bedroom window sunshade. Hope when the plants grows it will cascade down rather than climbing up (no support to do so). The idea is to have a green window with plenty of azure flowers! Really looking forward for this to work.

Candle Tree


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

The pots in all the pic's seem to be really small... shouldn't plants that have that many vines, leaves, and flowers need a lot more space??

I have a small patio that I want to cover with morning glories but I have always thought they would need more soil and space??

Would a 5 gal pain bucket be enough???

I also want to grow a moon flower vine intertwined with the morning glory (Seperate pots) so would the bucket be enough for that as well???

If I can just train them up some fishing line I could have a spectacular display!

I was thinking of going across horizontaly upto a height that will be pretty but won't allow them to invade my upstairs neighbor's place then use the horizontal strings to support the vertical lines.

Hum...everyone has given me a lot to think about...

Thanks!


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

squeeizie - I have grown morning glories and moonflowers out of a 6" pot that they were started in. That small pot was propped up on a slighly larger one (about a 3 gallon equivalent flat-back), and they did fine. I have even had volunteers sprout in my astroturf and attempt to grow and vine behind my containers. Often, the stress of being potbound will trigger blooming.

I think if anything, for those of us in temperate areas, these subtropical vines aren't growing long enough to really fill up a big pot with roots before they get hit with a frost or freeze. I've seen the MFs put out a good sized taproot but it didn't fill the 3 gallon with roots before it died back. The one thing in my case that might be a reason is that I don't get full all-day sun. I expect that if I did, the MFs might really produce some roots... But even then, they still end up growing for a relatively short time in colder areas despite their being tender perennials.


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

  • Posted by ruggy Zone 5 (My Page) on
    Sat, Apr 22, 06 at 20:03

The year of the giant fishing line trellis project, I grew MG's in a number of 9 inch clay pots, and ended up with a wall of MG's with hundreds of blooms everyday. Last year I did them in 3 foot window boxes, and they loved that too... I think these tricky buggers are happy just about anywhere! Like Jenny, I've seen volunteers EVERYWHERE, including at least a half dozen IN the pond! They've spouted in almost every pot, drip tray, astroturf... very resourceful!


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

Hey ruggy! Good to see you! I have a bunch of seedling SRBs, HBs, and CCs all ready to go out soon. Have a new honeysuckle and a wisteria. The clematis is way ahead this year in its growth, plus I am certain I'll get another round of MG volunteers in just about every pot on the balcony (LOL) so it's guaranteed to be a viney summer for me this year! LOL


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

  • Posted by ruggy Zone 5 (My Page) on
    Fri, May 12, 06 at 21:01

Howdy! Well, this year I scaled back the MG's (although I'll probaby miss them so much I'll go complete madness with them next year). This year I did a large hanging pot with miniature sunspot MGs (ipomoea luteola) and a large floor pot with a 4-foot bamboo obelisk with Picotee Blue MGs... the minis are already in full bloom! To make up for the MG's, I did plant a hanging pot of black-eyed susan vine, and another obelisk'd pot with cucamelons as a centerpiece on the table :0) I did go with a lot more big dramatic growies this year, hopefully will have a stunning balcony this season!


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RE: Morning glories and other viney things - training them

Hey ruggy! I haven't planted a MG in about 3 years now and all kinds of volunteers are popping up in almost all of my containers and even in the astroturf! LOL I'm going to have to really watch where those end up going so they don't outdo the vines I did plant this year.

I finally planted my CCs (actually based on the foliage, I think they are mis-labeled cypress vine), HBs, and SRBs outside last week. I had earlier sowed some sweet peas that finally popped up a few weeks ago but are going slow. Have lots of vines (including 2 honeysuckles, a clematis, and now an amethyst falls wisteria) going out there.

I'm really hoping that the Cypress vine (I should just call it that) really takes off because I tried it last year and it withered away as tiny vinelette sprouts during the unseasonably cool May last year and I never got to see blooms.


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