JOIN NOW LOG IN
iVillage GardenWeb iVillage GardenWeb THE INTERNET'S GARDEN & HOME COMMUNITY ADVERTISEMENT
Blogs Forums Photo Galleries Ask The Experts Tools & Directories        
Return to the Balcony Gardening Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
highrise/wind

Posted by blackmons z/5 IL (My Page) on
Thu, May 6, 04 at 17:26

What plants would you recommend for the 28th floor of a high rise? Are there any evergreens or deciduous shrubs that would survive? The balcony faces south.
Thanks for any advice you can give me.


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: highrise/wind

It might help if you can offer some more detail. How much wind do you really get? Is it gusty or sustained? Are the prevailing winds coming from SW or NW (eg directly at you or indirectly)? Is it limited to certain times of the year? What kind of railing/barriers do you have? How much sun do you have (e.g. is a roof or other building blocking sun some of the day, esp. in the later afternoon?)

It also depends on how much time you want to spend in the garden. One of the major problems with wind is really drying out. So you can grow almost anything even with regular wind, if you are committed to frequent watering, especially in the summer. ( I'm talking daily, sometimes morning AND evening.) Placing plants in larger pots (and plastic as opposed to clay) helps with this. Using larger pots also helps with plants potentially being tipped over or airlifted in especially hard gusts. I like the way clay looks, and it also helps with the weight, so I often put plastic inside of clay.

I'm on the 9th floor, also south facing and so I get slightly more wind than on the ground normally, but it's not a problem except for in the spring when we get a lot of fronts coming through. Many days in March through May we have 15-20 mph winds with gusts to 40. I grow a wide range of plants from roses to herbs to veggies. But I'm a major water hauler.

If you don't want to do this, choose types of shrubs which are shorter or have stout stems, and small waxy leaves or needles as opposed to big floppy juicy leaves. If you are south-facing and really have 6 or more hours of sun you could get a nice range of pines or junipers, like the little round mugho pines. Troll a good local landscape center (not a Mart Depot, though I go there too) to get ideas. My neighbor on the 10th floor grows azaleas.

Herbs from a mediterranean climate, like rosemary, lavender, thyeme, oregano etc also do very well in wind, and they have small waxy leaves that lose less water. But in z5 you will have to winter them inside or replace them every year. If you winter lavender and rosemary inside they can grow to be shrub-sized.

During the winter I spray/paint my perennial shrubs with WiltPruf, which is a clear anti-transpirant solution. I don't know if it's really necessary but it makes me feel better.


 o
RE: highrise/wind

I'm up on the 18th floor facing NE, but I am also an end balcony with a corner facing westerly where the summer fronts and storms come through. And because I face NE, I get the full brunt of the winter Nor'easters and blizzards off the Atlantic ocean. However, I have found that most of the time, it isn't windy up here, even when it is gusting down below. I have seen mature 30ft - 50ft trees planted all around on ground level almost bent in half from the wind when I've barely had a breeze up here. But when it does get windy, it can vibrate the building. LOL I'm thinking that some of this has to do with my area being nestled in a hilly area and that impacts the wind patterns.

Be that as it may, you need some tough-leafed plants near whereever your winds prevail (usually this would be from west to east since the jetstream flows that way) and place accordingly. I've had to do some trial and error in my windy corner but for the moment, I have an 8-year old lilac over there which has done fine and am trying a callicarpa (I wanted it to get the extra sun over there). The callicarpa seems to have much thinner leaves and is attempting to adapt over there so I'm still experimenting with that.

I have had peppers and 'maters over there and the peppers very easily defoliate in high winds. I've even had my tropical hibiscus defoliate in those conditions. Alternately, I have a clematis over there that has done pretty well, although it is set back out of the main wind flow. However my plumies and especially my oleander, seemed to do great along that western side (as long as they are secured). Seems the oleander is an old hat to windy locations being that they are used in Texas and other warm areas along highway medians. In any case, this is where some sort of wind break (maybe even a lattice structure) would help.


 o
RE: highrise/wind

Yes, it's very true as Jenny says, that you can have windy corners and non-windy corners. (It's easy for me to find my non-windy corners since that's where the fallen leaves gather.) So you can grade your plants that way. Groups of plants themselves as well as things like sturdy furniture and barriers can deflect wind. I also have my largest roses on wheeled bases so I can move them out of the wind and rain if if comes while they're in bloom, so the flowers don't get ruined. When they start rolling across the balcony by themselves I know it's time ...

An informal Beaufort scale for balcony gardeners (feel free to adapt)--
0: nothing moves on my balcony except the pigeons and aphids
1/2: pages of newspapers/magazines on balcony flip around in a leisurely way
1: newspapers/magazines left on balcony will blow off table
2: newspapers/magazines disappear into next balcony/county (add 1/2 for latter)
3: light patio furniture occasionally tips over (if frequently - add 1/2)
4: light patio furniture occasionally piles up against far side of balcony (ditto)
5: I don't have any patio furniture out there that's not screwed to the floor/made of wrought iron OR I won't let pets/children/small adults out there without signing waivers first.

Veggies and most annuals do fine up to 3 or 4; after that arrange for some windbreak. (Avoid hanging baskets over 2 unless you want lawsuits. It's amazing what repeated tugging wind gusts can do to things you think are firmly fixed. ) Shrubs can live happily in 4-5 if chosen well. If you are not a compulsive gardener, over 4 1/2 plant low-growing succulents or bristlecone pines (in heavy squat boxes). :-)


 o
RE: highrise/wind

I am interested in hearing windy gardening ideas, too. I live on the 8th floor near Lake Michigan, facing West. We get BIG gusts here--up to 60 mph at least a few times per year--and, in general, too much wind for anything but wrought iron furniture. I'm new to balcony gardening, and want to hang flower boxes on my balcony rails ... but I don't want to kill any one either. Any suggestions for major wind? I'm not interested in vegetables.


 o
RE: highrise/wind

I fight wind. I'm on the 23rd floor in manhattan facing south and the tallest building in the area so there is nothing to stop the wind. Effects of my wind: heaving wooden furniture with slats tips over, a two person wooden swing tips over, 30 gallon plastic pots (if they are cylcindrical) flip over, and if I leave the hammock on the huge green frame, the wind will tip the whole thing.
I can't really speak to what you should plant..I'm still new to planting. A lot of my plants look a little ragged because of the costant wind, but they have all held up. Though, this is my first year with peaches on my peach tree... I started with at least 40 baby peaches..I now have five. the wind has gotten them all...and the crabapples (they fall on the deck though, not over).
But, I can tell you a lot of what I've done to hold pots down. The easiest thing... buy square plastic containers. I bought self watering planters from gardeners.com and the square ones never, ever, ever tip over. Occasionally, they slide a little.
For regular cylindrical pots, I tie them together in groups with fishing string if they are small. If they are medium to large size, just putting them against each other helps. It's when they have the ability to roll a little that they'll flip over.
For my tomatos, I have metal cages and I also use twisty ties to attach all the major stems...too much wind and I lose my tomatos. I've also used bungie cords across the base of the cages to help hold them into the dirt.
On my furniture, I just bungie cord everything whenever I'm done with it.
Trellises I tie to railings. My pea fence (new this year) I actually drilled holes into long trough planters and tied the pea fencing to the planters, and bent the fencing in a zig zag across the ground to let it support itself.
Good luck with the wind - I know what you're going through. :) - Jamie


 o
RE: highrise/wind

Yes.. it does get windy up high.. I garden on the 5 floor with no higher buildings around and no larger building or structure fo some 20 miles across NYC harbor and through NJ where Newark airport lies.. I knew I was catching more wind and higher gusts than was reported at the low lieing airport there.. so I got a weather station to track it for myself right here. right now...not that it helps the plants much to see how heavy it is..
my first containers were 5 gal buckets and 20 and 40 liter olive shipping containers.. these would always blow over and the plants would bake on the 140*F + roof surface.. quite quickly.. after they dried out and became light from the sorocco winds across the hot deck.. the tomato cages and stakes in the buckets were tied together and attached to the brick at the ends of the row.. this was some help in keeping them upright .. but the fruit was a bit thick skinned and tough.. The 1/2 55 gal barrels would also tip over as their trees were hit by winds above.. got to be 200 lbs in thoes..
then I constructed a perimeter planter with an attached 4' fence w/ trelllis above.. the slats of cedar were interspersed with bamboo poles and openings were left in between to let through some of the air.. this prevents the wind from being blocked from the side as with a solid fence.. but then raising over the solid barrier and comming down pancakeing the plants from above.. the force is broken but not opposed..with a slightly open fence even so..I was watching on a windy day to see the 6' glass topped table flip up into the wind and crash aganst the retainer fence... amaisingly all was unbroken.. although the framed glass top was ripped from the table base... It's also good to have a fence to catch what does become air borne..before it goes over ... the slightly open framework of the fence is good for tieing the plants .. dahalias and tomatoes among others to the fence.. trellising many of the plantings in this way does help..
Gordon NYC zone 7
the roof is in zone 4 winter - zone 14 in the summer inclusive..
I say zone 14 but I actually don't know the zone for areas with 140* temperature winds..


 o
RE: highrise/wind

Wow. I have seen the pics of your garden, Gordon, and what you have is amazing considering those conditions.

Zone 4 - 14, heh!


 o
RE: highrise/wind

I live on the 6th floor with a terrace that is unprotected on all 3 sides, and we get tons of wind downtown. I hang my hanging baskets with C-Clamps and 50 lb test chain from the balcony above mine, and I secure the hook of the planter into the chain. Remember that the wind will make your plants dry out faster, especially hanging baskets.

I try and secure as much as I can to the railings, and grow certain plants in tomato stakes. I planted all hibiscuses on one side because they tend to hold up just fine, and like I said, there are plenty of times with 20-30 mph winds during the rain downtown here.

My only other real suggestion is if you are getting plants that will flower, make sure you get things with blooms that last for a day. That way they will constantly be replenishing themselves. A good wind storm will rid your balcony of EVERY single bloom, and it is nice to get several back the next day. My Oleanders will lose every bloom in a heavy storm and take weeks to bloom again, yet the hibiscuses, passion vines, and Morning Glories bloom every day new again.

Good Luck!!!


 o
RE: highrise/wind

oh.. sometimes it's advisable to tie the stalk or main trunk of a new plant or shrub to a short stake in the planter.. the top blowing about will disturb the tiny roots that are trying to attach themselves to the soil .. also a bit of a heavier soil [heavier than the light potting soil.. like loam or lawn soil] intermixed with the potting soil is helpful in high wind areas.. another thing I find useful in keeping the roots anchored is I place a layer of broken chunks of the white styrofaom in the botom of the pots.. along with providing drainage and keeping the soil from washing out of the pots during watering the roots grow down into it.. and actually right through the maybe 1" chunks of the foam.. searching for water in the cracks and fizzures in the foam... this anchoring to the soil it's self does stabalize the rootball.. and stopps the wiggleing of the plant in high winds... preventing the little root hairs from being continnually broken..
Gordon


 
 

 

 


Click here to learn more about in-text links on this page.



iVillage GardenWeb: The Internet's Garden & Home Community  
  iVillage Home & Garden Network