What is 511 - which ingredients are in what proportions?

And F. teas are very tropical indoor trees, maples anything but...

This post was edited by moochinka on Fri, Jan 16, 15 at 12:02

The gritty mix is a much better choice for shallow containers because it's designed to hold water on particle surfaces, inside of soil particles, and at the interface where particles touch, and NOT in the large air spaces between particles. The 5:1:1 mix is more water retentive and does hold SOME water between soil particles, which makes it less desirable for use in shallow pots.

The 5:1:1 mix IS a good potting soil, so I wouldn't deviate too far from the basic recipe unless you fully understand the concept upon which the soil is based. Adding material with small particles to the gritty mix will be counter-productive (from the plant's POV) because the fine material lodges in between soil particles, creating conditions that support a perched water table, the elimination of which is actually the reason you would choose to use the gritty mix in the first place.

Realistically, if you're not going to take advantage of what the gritty mix CAN offer in terms of drainage/aeration, you might as well use the 5:1:1 mix or an "off the shelf" mix you don't have to make and would require a reduced outlay of both cash and effort.

Al

I've have read were people have added to the mix with success, that y included that part, as I will not be using an additional potting soil to mine, as for me I've found the ingredients I need except for the turface MVP, is there something I can use in its place, if you could name a couple incase I can't find the next best thing...thank you..

As for my first question, would the 5-1-1 or the gritty mix be better for my Fukien tea, and same question for my potted Japanese Maples? thank you

Sorry about that, I didn't read it carefully, indeed you did... Thanks for letting me know, ill be making my batch this weekend so ill be ready to go this spring..thanks again!!!

also is Epson salt needed ? I read on another post a guy is putting this in with his watering ? If so is it safe for Fukien Tea and Japanese maples growing in the mix

It's not needed, and is only used in a few places by choice.

There is no question your plants need a source of Mg, and Epsom salts is a good source of Mg you can utilize w/o much in the way of concern about it impacting pH; however, the commonly held belief that the extra Mg Epsom salts furnishes must be a good thing because it has the potential to make plants greener is off the mark. For every 100 parts of N a plant uses, it should use from 5-15 parts of Mg. Supplying MORE Mg than plants can use has only the potential to limit. You can't make a plant grow better by giving it more of any particular element than it needs. An excess of any element in the soil solution has the same potential to limit as a deficiency, and an excess of some nutrients acts as a synergist, causing a need in the plant for more of other nutrients it normally wouldn't need more of if the soil's nutrient load was in balance. Whether or not you SHOULD use Epsom salts as a Mg source depends on what the fertilizer you're using supplies and/or whether or not dolomite (garden lime) was used in the soil as a liming agent (contains Mg). Also, supplying Epsom salts w/o also supplying an additional measure of Ca can create an antagonistic deficiency of Ca.

If you're using the gritty mix, you can make life a lot easier by using Foliage-Pro 9-3-6 as your fertilizer. It has both Ca and Mg, something the more common soluble fertilizers (like MG, Jacks, Schultz, .....) don't have. For those fertilizers (that don't contain Ca and Mg) you'll need to supplement Ca & Mg with Epsom Salts and gypsum, or something like Cal/Mag. It's easier to just use the FP 9-3-6. It has everything your trees need in soluble form.

Al

Ok, thanks once again for all the information, I'm happier every day that I joined this forum!!!

I was checking around for the turface in Louisville KY, and people are telling me that Gypsum soil conditioner, or a charcoal soil conditioner would work. Not sure about either. Any additional info would be great!!! Thanks

Gypsum is an absolute NO as a notable fraction of container media because it would grossly oversupply Ca, and it's either supplied in powder or prill form with the prills quickly breaking down into a sludge, so skip that advice. Charcoal CAN be used in container media, but it has roughly the same physical characteristics of perlite.

Turface MVP should be very easy to find in Louisville. You can get it at:

Caudill Seed
Louisville
(800) 626-5357

John Deere Landscape
Serving multiple locations.
Louisville KY #180
13909 Aiken Rd
Louisville, KY 40245-4625
Phone: (502) 245-0465
At JDL you should ask for Turface AllPro - same product as MVP

Ewing Irrigation
Louisville
(502) 245-6111
www.ewing1.com

Al

Yep, if you're going to make one mix for your potted trees, make the Gritty Mix. It sounds like you can find the Turface, but if you can't, DE would be a fair substitute.

For my maples, I personally use the 5-1-1 because it is so easy to make and so economical. However, none of my maples are "finished" in bonsai terms, so they're still being grown for size.

Josh

Last question, do I mix in fertilizer and still feed every 2 weeks spring through fall, and I do and the lime correct. and what's the best kind of screen to use to sift through the products.

It's nice to have a recipe you can follow, but it's much more beneficial if you gain an understanding of the concept that explains WHY all this stuff taken as a whole works so well. The link below should help you gain that understanding and put you on a path that should allow you to avoid the multiplicative issues associated with poor soils and the inability to water correctly.

How you should fertilize is inextricably linked to your soil choice and watering habits. My plants that over-winter indoors under lights get fertilized at every watering with low doses, but I flush the soil every time I water. In summer, while mean temps are between 55-80*, I try to fertilize weekly with a full strength dose of Foliage-Pro 9-3-6. That's all I use, unless I add a little Pro-TeKt 0-0-3 to the program.

No one can give you meaningful advice about how to fertilize w/o at least a feel for what you're using for a soil and how you water. Once you get those issues worked out, advice based on what's known instead of a SWAG can be offered.

Al

Do you also add line to the 1-1-1 mix like the 5-1-1?

Disregard, I have found the answer..