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| This Japanese "Bloodgood" Maple is in my back yard. I was wondering if you guys think it has good characteristics for bonsai, and if it isn' to late to dig it up and train it. I'm aware it will take a long time. I'm aware there is a lot of information about it first. I'm just wondering if it has good characteristics for bonsai. ;)
Here are some pictures: Whole tree:
Trunk shot 1:
Trunk shot 2:
Trunk shot 3:
It was planted about...7 years ago. It has been left completely alone. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by justeen_bonsai z7 VA (My Page) on Sun, Jan 28, 07 at 22:07
| I don't know...it looks very well established and the trunk looks very big. If you do pull it up and prune it to get it to a managable size, it would be lots of stess on the tree and hard work for you. You may want to find a smaller specimen. What is the trunk's diameter? |
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| That looks like a lot of tree to dig up (I wonder if you realize how extensive and very heavy such a rootball can be to deal with) and if you haven't had experience with 'collected' trees in bonsai - and they do require special care from the minute they're dug - you might want to leave it alone and work on something else. But that variety is one that will root if it's done right, so maybe you could take a cutting (in June) and see how that goes. |
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- Posted by johnrjustice (My Page) on Sun, Jan 28, 07 at 22:37
| My suggestion would be to investigate air layering. You could produce some good bonsai material that way, and not have to risk killing the existing tree. |
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| Normally one would dig a tree with a single trunk. I'm not sure why everyone thinks this is too big. I've collected trees as big as 10 - 15 inch diameter range that were 15 -20 foot tall. If this is something you haven't done before, I would not recommend it on an expensive specimen like this one. Learn how to do it successfully on native material first. randy |
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- Posted by johnrjustice (My Page) on Mon, Jan 29, 07 at 9:00
| Thats pretty impressive rj, considering a typical dinner plate is only 9 inches in diameter. |
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- Posted by nicholiarelius (My Page) on Mon, Jan 29, 07 at 10:23
| I wanted to use this tree because it had already been growing, has a relatively thick trunk (not sure how many inches in diameter it is, i don't have a measuring tape thing that would wrap around it, just a metallic one) and it is a Bloodgood, and I love those. I don't want to risk killing it though, since I have zero experience...just a few guides. Would I be able to air layer one of those large trunks that branch off the sides? Or cut one off and try to root the whole thing? |
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| John, I dug this Tamarisk in March 05. The diameter at the soil line is about 14 inches. Last photo was taken this morning. Clickable thumbnails
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- Posted by gnome_in_pa Zone 6 (My Page) on Mon, Jan 29, 07 at 11:08
| Nicholiarelius, Don't cut a large branch expecting it to root, I would be surprised if that worked. Rooting even small cuttings from Maples can be difficult. When you choose the position to layer, choose an interesting portion of the trunk that shows some movement and taper. In fact why not try several from different parts of the tree. Norm |
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| FYI, "diameter" is measured from one side to the other. Your thinking circumference. :-) Please be patient with me, but IMHO your thinking is flawed. "Other trees" are already growing also. Some along fence lines or in cattle pastures and they don't cost what that Bloodgood does. Any damage done because of the eager beaver syndrome is likely permanent. Any experiments you do now, because of your lack of experience, should not be done on an expensive plant like a Japanese Maple. Learn the process on inexpensive native material. Just because you've read a book or two doesn't mean you are up for the job. Go practice air layering or cuttings or collecting on other things. You should just forget the Bloodgood right now knowing it is still there when you are ready for it. One thing we've not established yet is can you keep a plant in a container alive? Do you have bonsai growing right now and how long? If the answer to these questions is no, the Japanese Maple really should be a big no no. randy |
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- Posted by nicholiarelius (My Page) on Mon, Jan 29, 07 at 13:55
| Right now I have a ficus religiosa (bo tree) and a willow leaf ficus in pots. I got the Willow leaf 2 weeks before Christmas. I got the Bo tree about 1 week after. The Bo I mail ordered and it was pretty much dead when I got it. I have managed to nurse it back to health and it's doing great. The Willow Leaf is doing great as well. There is some "native" stuff around (I am surrounded by forrests) but none of it really appeals to me. It's like pine trees and such. Those needley things. You can't air layer/root/etc during the winter though anyways, can you? |
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| You seem to missing the point I'm trying to get across. I give up. Good luck with whatever you do.:-) randy |
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| No, you can't airlayer in winter, but you can try to 'get' what Randy's saying - for the good of your trees and your future in bonsai - which will be seriously impacted if you blithely dig up trees and kill them in the process. Something else strikes me - possibly you're one of those who are attracted by tropical plants (and that's fine!), because I've never heard of a bonsai 'person' turning their nose up at a whole forest of native trees, let alone 'those needly things' and maybe you should concentrate on indoor growing. |
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- Posted by johnrjustice (My Page) on Mon, Jan 29, 07 at 23:24
| Well, I'm still impressed Randy. I still have my fingers crossed hoping to see new budding on the 3 inch tall maple I collected last year. Its tiny, but even at that small size has an interesting structure. Nic, be careful about letting the ficus get you overconfident, ficus is very forgiving indoor plant. |
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- Posted by nicholiarelius (My Page) on Thu, Feb 1, 07 at 11:48
| I like a mixture of plants, bt the native species here are either tall super skinny ugly pine trees, or bald cypresses...which are pretty but they are only on protected land around here. There are a few various other species butthey are in the minority. This spring I'm going to go out in the woods and atleast look to see what I can find. A guy from my mother's church owns a lot of forresty land and I can just go back there and dig around. |
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| Funny, but the page posted below seems to think there may be a couple more species in your fine state. If you ever saw a well trained specimen of the two trees you mentioned, I doubt would would be dogging them. randy |
Here is a link that might be useful: Forests of N,C.
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- Posted by nicholiarelius (My Page) on Sat, Feb 3, 07 at 10:40
| Funny, but I don't live ALL over the state. Just because they are in the State doesn't mean they are close to me. North Carolina is a big state. I live in the Northeastern corner against the NC/VA line. Out here, the native species basicallhy consist of what I mentioned. And I wasn't dogging bald cypress, if you finished reading my post before trying to be abrasive then you would see that I said I thought bald cypress were pretty....but they are only on State and Federarly protected land. the swamps and marshes out here are all protected. |
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| I don't live all over Oklahoma, but there are many suitable trees very near me. What's your point? I click on the north east corner of your state and they mention oaks, maples, beech, poplar and many others. Pine was the last mentioned and that it "might" be a dominant tree in some regions. But I've walked through pine forest. They are not strictly pine unless they have been clear cut and planted only in pine. You can find many hardwoods mingled in with them. My abrasive point is there are many species of trees in your state. The 4th largest area of forest with many different types of trees growing. Beeches, maples, hawthorns, and other trees that would be suitable for learning on. Maybe you should stick to the maple in your yard. Less of a danger and nuisance to those around you. I'm finished being abrasive, have fun:-) randy |
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| FINALLY Nic! I was waiting for you to stop being so nice and speak up to Mr. Bigshot over here with his PhD in bonsai growing. He's only on here to belittle others. ALL the posts I've read from him are to tell you what you're doing WRONG....in a demeaning way. Never to just chat or write a friendly comment. Oh, wait...he does occasionally post to show off his bonsai jades, which would "end up in the compost pile" if they were mine (sound familiar??)....and by the way, I wasn't asking your opinion in that post....I could care less what your aesthetic preference is. Don't worry, you're the bonsai master and all the beginner members on here have NO place here. How dare they ask questions??? And then they don't get YOUR point? Oh my, the audacity. You're doing all the beginners a favor with your negative remarks...I'm sure that's why they posted in the first place, to be made to feel small. P.S. putting a smiley face after a snide comment doesn't make it any less snide. Gabi |
Here is a link that might be useful: Thread I referred to (
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| Hi Gabi I'm guilty. I admit my approach with you was not a good one and I apologize for it. I should have offered you a new plant with healthy growth. On this thread I was guilty of encouraging someone to step back and think about learning a very difficult process on something other than a tree that's probably worth over $100.00. He asked for opinions and I gave one. And I did voice it strongly hoping to get him to think about other trees before taking on the maple. At least I was offering advice and trying to help. randy |
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| I agree with Gabi : You don't have to voice your opinion strongly to get a point across. This is a friendly forum with a lot of newby's, Not the Army. Frankly if some gave me very strong advice, I'd tell them to "STUFF IT"!!! So far I good advice and haven't had to do that. Back to NICH's thing. I said this in another forum. |
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| Randy: I thought he wanted to use the tree for a Bonsai. You said that you have dug 10 to 15 in. Dia. trees. Do you use them for Bonsai ??? Maybe I'm missing something. |
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- Posted by nicholiarelius (My Page) on Mon, Feb 5, 07 at 1:14
| it's not your advice that's the problem, sweetie...it's your attitude. You have a very arrogant, condescending, abrasive tone and it's not very becoming of you. I'm sure you know a lot about Bonsai. That's great. But you really need to work on your delivery--if you are going to continue to share your knowledge. |
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| Hi Nich : In my earlier post, I mentioned putting a plastic bag; filled with soil, on a branch that you liked. Now I remembered ,I cut the bark all around and the soil was mostly Perlite. Just found out, this was air layering, that I did 30 years ago. If you really want to dig it up ( A big job !!!) I think I remembered some one saying that you have to start cutting the root system little at a time , alternately spacing the cuts around the soil base ,the shape you would want the ball. And you would have to start pruning the branches back. This takes a long while, so as not to shock the tree. If I wanted to I'd tackle this, because I'd try anything. I've moved a 12 foot Red Maple 10 miles,using a Tow truck. I'd appreciate it if someone joined in to comment. That way I will know if I'm right or wrong. You can even tell me I'm crazy. I don't mind. LOU |
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| Hi Lou Yes, they are used to be trained as bonsai. It's not uncommon for some trees to be called 2, 3 , or 4 man trees. The number of people needed to move them. It's sometimes much quicker and easier to start with a massive trunk and then train branches than it is to start with seedlings or young material and work your way up. Many people prefer to start big and work their way down. randy |
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| I'm getting too old to hump them big ones around. The largest I transplanted was the Red Maple with a 6 inch dia. trunk. I like Pine for Bonsai about 3 years old. I have one out front, about 6 years old now. Looks like the one at the Heading of the Bonsai Forum. I even did some grafting to it. Now the deer ar nibbling on it. Guess I'll have to make it over into a House Plant. LOU |
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