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| Hey again everyone! I went to my local nursery today and found this little grafted weeping willow. Apparently the nursery specializes in bonsai and they thought this was a bonsai. I disagree. I think it is too big and tall, and has no movement. Is there any way of shortening it? The directions say that once it blooms with the yellow catkins (which it has) to cut each stem back to 2 inches. I kinda want to chop it, but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be the way to go. Is there anything I can do with this guy?
Graft Area:
Soil:
P.S. It has just started to sprout leaves, and I am leaving it indoors until spring arrives. Since the buds are just starting to open, can I repot into some turface now? Thanks! Ryan |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by greenman28 Nor Cal 7/8 (My Page) on Sat, Feb 13, 10 at 15:29
| Hey, Ryan! How are your other willows doing? As for this specimen.... Now is a good time to re-pot. But you can re-pot any time, really. The sooner you do it, however, the sooner it will recuperate. My Weeping Willows are beginning to open their leaves, too. Just started this past week. |
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- Posted by greenman28 Nor Cal 7/8 (My Page) on Sat, Feb 13, 10 at 15:32
| p.s. Is there some reason that you're keeping this tree indoors? Sensitive graft material (not hardy in your zone)? I'm sure you've got a bit of snow on the ground, but if the temps aren't too low...I'd say put it outside. Maybe others will have different advice. Josh |
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- Posted by ryan_tree 7a VA (thebonsaiguy1993@yahoo.com) on Sat, Feb 13, 10 at 15:42
| Hey again Josh! Unfortunately, the first willow cuttings had died, but I started over with more and they are doing great! I just think this tree is a bit tall, and sort of boring, but maybe it may have to work as a large bonsai. I am keeping this tree inside since we are still in winter (3 feet of snow on the ground currently) and there is new growth sprouting. I didn't want the new growth to die since we are still going below freezing. Do you think I should put this one into a training pot or straight into a bonsai pot? I was thinking about just going into a training pot, maybe with a slab or something underneath to grow some vertical roots and also some nebari. Good or bad? Thanks Josh! You're quick! |
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| You can easily layer this plant to shorten it if you wish. Simply make two ringing cuts about 1-1/2X the diameter of the trunk apart. The top cut will be where the roots quickly emerge, so figure that as the soil line. Here is a picture of a Carpinus (on right) I am layering to shorten the tree (started last spring, & I'll separate the layer this spring):
Al |
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- Posted by ryan_tree 7a VA (thebonsaiguy1993@yahoo.com) on Sat, Feb 13, 10 at 17:56
| Thanks Al! I had completely forgot about air layering the tree! I will most likely end up doing that. I could air layer it in half, then cut back the weeping parts. Sound like a plan? What would happen with the bottom half though? Would it back-bud very well? Thank you! Ryan |
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| If you do a true air-layer, you'll easily save the bottom half, which will back-bud profusely; but, remember the bottom part of the plant is just grafting stock (probably Salix caprea 'Select'), and a radically different cultivar (in terms of its upright vs prostrate growth habit) from the Salix caprea 'Pendula' scion that was grafted to it. If you do a ground layering like I showed in the picture, you might still save the grafting stock because willow is so genetically vigorous, but the chances are reduced considerably, and there will probably be tons of roots to prune off of the grafting stock. I really don't see it as worth saving anyway. You should play with some cuttings of the 'pendula'. Wired upright, you could get some interesting trunk movement and lots of pruning experience. ;o) Al |
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- Posted by ryan_tree 7a VA (thebonsaiguy1993@yahoo.com) on Sun, Feb 14, 10 at 10:55
| Thanks again Al! I'll just do an air layer and prune the weeping part of the tree so it is all symmetrical. Would it be alright just to cut all of those weeping branches off? And would now be a good time to do an air layer? Thanks! |
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| I don't quite understand. What would be the thinking behind cutting off the weeping branches? .... best time to start an air-layer is when the sap is vigorously rising, so at about the time the spring flush of growth is underway. Al |
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- Posted by ryan_tree 7a VA (thebonsaiguy1993@yahoo.com) on Sun, Feb 14, 10 at 13:51
| Well I just wanted to make it all symmetrical, so that the tree wasn't 10 inches tall with 15 inch long weeping branches. The tree is just starting to sprout new growth, so I'm thinking I should air layer now? Thank you! |
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- Posted by vickivaughan 8 (My Page) on Sun, Feb 14, 10 at 14:55
| This is a pussy wilow and quite easy to root in water. Cut off several of the branches and grow them to whatever height you wish. Cut off the terminal bud and it will start to weep. You can easily train the trunk into a serpentine shape which makes it much more desirable as a bonsai specimen. vicki |
Here is a link that might be useful: vicki@flatrockkoi.com
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- Posted by ryan_tree 7a VA (thebonsaiguy1993@yahoo.com) on Sun, Feb 14, 10 at 15:33
| Thanks Vicki. Very interesting. I think I am going to repot it tonight into some turface with sphagnum and bark chips. The spahgnum so that the soil retains more water. The bark chips for organics. Sound good? |
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| Not sure if you meant sphagnum moss or sphagnum peat, but either/both are better left out of the mix. @ parts of screened Turface and 1 part screened pine or fir bark sounds good. I wouldn't root cuttings in water, though. Though roots form readily and often seemingly more quickly on many plants propagated in water, the roots produced are quite different from those produced in a soil-like, highly aerated medium (perlite - fine gravel - seed starting mix, e.g.). Physiologically, you will find these roots to be much more brittle than normal roots due to a much higher percentage of aerenchyma (a tissue with a greater percentage of inter-cellular air spaces than normal parenchyma). If you wish to eventually plant your rooted cuttings in soil, it is probably best not to root them in water because of the frequent difficulty in transplanting them to soil. The "water-formed" roots often break during transplant & those that don't break are very poor at water absorption and often die. The effect is equivalent to beginning the cutting process over again with a cutting in which vitality has likely been reduced. If you do a side by side comparison of cuttings rooted in water & cuttings rooted in soil, the cuttings in soil will always (for an extremely high percentage of plants) have a leg up in development on those moved from water to a soil medium for the reasons outlined above. Al |
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- Posted by ryan_tree 7a VA (thebonsaiguy1993@yahoo.com) on Sun, Feb 14, 10 at 17:46
| Oh thank you Al. But I think I am going to air layer this tree instead of chopping it. I know how easily they root, but I've never rooted one in soil. The air layer just seems easier to me and I would know that I have roots and that the cutting would survive. When would be the correct time to do this? |
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| Air layer when the sap is vigorously rising - the tree will have opened most of it's spring flush of foliage. Al |
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- Posted by ryan_tree 7a VA (thebonsaiguy1993@yahoo.com) on Sun, Feb 14, 10 at 22:15
| Well, there is a whole flush of it's spring growth coming out now. A lot of the buds are bursting. I am thinking about doing it soon since I am seeing all of this new growth.... |
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- Posted by vickivaughan 8 (My Page) on Mon, Feb 15, 10 at 10:59
| Al Thank you for the info on rooting cutting in water. It is just easy for me and I have some of these willows that ae 5 feet tall now- specimens for the yard- not bonsai. I enjoy giving them as gifts. I will try the next round this spring in soil thanks to your advice. Bonsai is just a hobby out of control for me. I have about 100 specimens and hundreds in some level of training. My favorites are japnese maples. We have about 150 varieties. My main focus is my producion koi hatchery. We import japanese koi as well as produce domestic koi. We have been to Japan over 50 times over the last 15 years. We are located in Georgia. You must be a botanist www.flatrockkoi |
Here is a link that might be useful: vick@flarockkoi.com
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- Posted by greenman28 Nor Cal 7/8 (My Page) on Mon, Feb 15, 10 at 11:12
| Ryan, wait until the tree has foliage...leaves. Air-layering! Of course! A great solution, indeed. I've started Willows in water before, but I pot them in soil as soon as I see the root-nubs begin to form. |
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- Posted by ryan_tree 7a VA (thebonsaiguy1993@yahoo.com) on Mon, Feb 15, 10 at 11:52
| Well, the tree's buds are starting to break everywhere. There are quite a few leaves as well. Not sure if you can tell in this picture, but there are leaves:
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- Posted by greenman28 Nor Cal 7/8 (My Page) on Mon, Feb 15, 10 at 12:13
| Wait until the tree is leafed out...when the leaves are actually producing food for the tree. You won't have too long to wait. Third week of February is when my Willows really go crazy. Imagine it somewhat like a vehicle started on a cold morning. You can hop in, and stomp on |
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- Posted by ryan_tree 7a VA (thebonsaiguy1993@yahoo.com) on Mon, Feb 15, 10 at 12:29
| Will do Josh. I'll let it fully leaf out, then air layer it. My plans for this tree: 1. Repot (already done) 2. Let it fully leaf out 3. Air layer it: The tree is 18 inches tall. I want to cut it at about the 8 inch mark. That will leave 8 inches for the bottom part and 10 inches for the top. I then want to cut all of the weeping branches back to about 5 inches (or less) long. 4. Let it recover. |
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| VickiV - Pleased to make your acquaintance. Not a botanist, but a devoted bonsaiist. ;o) That was a copy/paste job from a post I left somewhere else. Because willows root in almost anything but flowing lava, and they have such tremendous genetic vigor, and they don't mind wet feet, it probably doesn't matter all that much for them if you root in water. It does make a pretty significant difference on most other plants and herbaceous cuttings, though. Ryan - I never thought you were going to do a trunk chop. ;o) You may want to hold off on any pruning until the tree goes to sleep for the winter or just before budswell in the spring. The greater the canopy volume the more roots the plant will make, & getting a new root system established after layering should be your priority. Make sense? Al |
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- Posted by ryan_tree 7a VA (thebonsaiguy1993@yahoo.com) on Mon, Feb 15, 10 at 18:32
| That does make sense. Thanks Al! But wouldn't it look silly for the longest time if the tree is 10 inches tall and the branches are about 15 inches long? And Willows back-bud very well, correct? With the lower half, I know that the new growth will have to be weighted down, which I plan on doing with heavy fishing lures, or something similar. Thanks all!! Ryan |
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| If you're that impatient over 1 tree ...... you need more trees to keep you occupied so you don't fret over allowing the Salix to grow wild for a season so it can build some strength. ;-) Of course, as I mentioned, the willow is extremely vigorous, so you can do just about anything you want, within reason, and it will tolerate it. Why not simply wire those branches you'll be using in the composition into place? Al
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- Posted by ryan_tree 7a VA (thebonsaiguy1993@yahoo.com) on Tue, Feb 16, 10 at 10:42
| Oh, I'm not that impatient ;) I've got tons of trees. I could wire them, and that might be a better idea. I just figured the lures would be mroe simple. |
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| And lets make sure we call it what it is. Thats a pussy willow.. there grafted to make them weep.. not good bonsai material. if you chop that down it will grow lik a normal pussy willow.. Those things suck!!!!! It is not a willow tree.... |
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- Posted by greenman28 Nor Cal 7/8 (My Page) on Thu, Mar 25, 10 at 19:24
| It's a 'pendula,' so could we call it a Willow that weeps? ;) Whatever it's called...it's time for an update. Josh |
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- Posted by ryan_tree 7a VA (thebonsaiguy1993@yahoo.com) on Thu, Mar 25, 10 at 20:26
| It is time for an update. The tree is sending out roots in the moss ball. I'll post pics tomorrow. It is losing a lot of leaves however, but I'm sure it is not an issue. |
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- Posted by ryan_tree 7a VA (thebonsaiguy1993@yahoo.com) on Thu, Apr 8, 10 at 15:11
| I believe the tree has died. I have no idea why, but it dropped all of it's leaves and is looking rather sad. I think I am going to chop it, cut back the stems, and then baby it back to health now. |
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- Posted by greenman28 Nor Cal 7/8 (My Page) on Thu, Apr 8, 10 at 21:20
| What exactly has happened? And what exactly do you plan to do? Josh |
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- Posted by ryan_tree 7a VA (thebonsaiguy1993@yahoo.com) on Fri, Apr 9, 10 at 23:02
| Well, all of the leaves have fallen off of the tree and it looks rather sad. I took all of the dead leaves off, and hope to chop it now and have it recover later on down the road. |
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- Posted by greenman28 Nor Cal 7/8 (My Page) on Sat, Apr 10, 10 at 7:35
| Why did the leaves fall off, I wonder? Did you put it in shade for a week or so after re-potting? Or right back into the sun? Was it indoors in a warm, dry environment? When you say 'chop,' what do you mean? Josh |
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- Posted by ryan_tree 7a VA (thebonsaiguy1993@yahoo.com) on Sat, Apr 10, 10 at 12:35
| No idea why the leaves fell off. I haven't changed anything at all. It was in the same spot it was in before the air layer. Nothing changed. When I say chop, I am going to cut the air layer and then cut back the pendulous branches. |
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