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kuromatsu

Black pine seeds in sand

kuromatsu
14 years ago

A recent trip to Matsushima Bay in Japan left me wondering if it is possible to grow a Black Pine entirely in sand?

I appreciate something more coarse and porous such as Akadama is more suitable although the Black Pine is well known for being costal and surviving on very little at all. I decided to set up an experiment, some seeds in soil, some in pure sand. Suprisingly ones in sand seem to be much healthier..

In theory sand is a much cleaner substance therefore more likely to be free from infection. I've been finding I have to water very regularly because of the extreme drainage however over watering does not seem to be a problem and I should'nt get root rot - I hope! Watch this space.

Has anybody tried this before?

Here is a link that might be useful: Black Pine seeds in sand

Comments (13)

  • larke
    14 years ago

    I would think fertilization is very important in that case, but actually think sand would only be good for germination, not ongoing growth. I hope your sand has zero traces of salt (or anything else) in it.

  • head_cutter
    14 years ago

    Growing in pure sand shouldn't be a problem, I live in Vietnam and that's all there is here as far as 'soil'. All of my trees are tropicals (like everyone elses). The only changes I've made are (I found a place to get a more course sand down the coast a little out of town which I've been using more and (I began mixing some Basalt chips, 1/8 to 1/4" road paving material, into the mix to keep it a little looser.

    I haven't seen a problem with salt so far so either the trees are tolerant or ...

    Feeding is a problem. With zero organics in the mix I find that I (to have any growth at all) must feed at least twice a month. This is very evident in the potted trees and nursery stock here - these people don't feed at all or very little. After a few years the trees get to looking pretty bad.

    Bob

  • tchoco
    14 years ago

    Sand for seeds is good until one year but after your will have some problems with fertilizing because sand can't retain nutrients. You will have to feeding and watering your tree very regularly! If you make a mame or shohin you have to watering your tree twice a day or more!

    tchoco

  • head_cutter
    14 years ago

    I will also amend my post by saying that; in most temerate areas growing trees in pure sand isn't a good idea.

  • ryan_tree
    14 years ago

    Quick question, but do Japanese Black Pine seeds need cold stratification? Thanks!

  • kuromatsu
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Ryan - Black pine seeds aren't dormant - they may germinate faster if given a pre-moist chilling according to the books.

    I find personally it doesn't help though and just soak mine for three days prior.

    My seedling in sand is going well by the way - stronger than others still!

  • ryan_tree
    14 years ago

    You soak yours 3 days prior to planting? Is that necessary? I want to plant my seeds, but I'm unsure how long to soak the seeds. I'm not very familiar with Black Pines. Thanks!

  • kuromatsu
    Original Author
    14 years ago

    Soak for three days at room temp. This gives the seeds a false 'rainy' season.

    Then plant them up using a matchstick.

    Try mixing 10 - 20% spagnum moss chopped up into the compost or medium. This aids root development ;-)

  • ryan_tree
    14 years ago

    Okay thank you! 3 days of scarification. I red somewhere that you need to cold stratify them, but I'm not going to since I was told it doesn't matter. And I just may try some in sand. Thanks!

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    14 years ago

    How many seeds do you have, Ryan?
    I might suggest that you experiment with a couple germination techniques.

    And, of course, make sure to update!


    Josh

  • ryan_tree
    14 years ago

    Ah, I've only got like 6 seeds :(

  • Shanjae Thapa
    7 years ago

    I have seeds but no starter mix..as I m very new in d field I want to try seedling in sand entirely..help me out guys

  • Peter
    7 years ago

    I've got hundreds of Jack Pine seeds collected from buckets of cones and I've germinated dozens, I prefer coarse sand as a topper.

    My experience is that you can easily germinate in compost but once they sprout you want to get rid of the black soil soon otherwise they will die--if not right away then by their next stage of growth which could be a year later.

    In nature you will very, very rarely see anything growing in pure sand. The plant life-cycle really only begins once the smallest amount of organic matter is introduced into the sand mix (think of the edge of a beach).

    But I highly recommend sand and a little soil, something like 70/30... it has the best longer-term potential for germinating and growing pines and spruces. Once they sprout you must reduce water.

    The most challenging for me has always been the second year, if you can develop the seedlings that far then you should be in the clear. It's a real test of patience. That's why I have so many seeds now; many just don't make it even with the best care taken.

    Oh and the only other tip I can provide you with is that jack pine seeds seem to require bright light to germinate, somehow warmth and moisture alone won't do it, hence the coarse sand topping.