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trinity_a

Collecting A Japanese Maple

trinity_a
14 years ago

My neighbor next door is wanting to remove a beautiful Japanese maple, it is just the normal green leaf variety.

Anyways to the point,

I have talked with her and she said I could have it. It is approx 15ft tall, and the trunk is about 8-10inches across. She said she would be more than willing to keep it in the spot till it cooled down again or till I can get it out safety.

So any suggestions on getting it out with it living? I was thinking of taking advantage of the given time & air layer to get a lot of little trees, then during this year start digging around it to cut some of the roots slowly over the coarse of this growing season.

I am not sure if it will be worth all this to get it but it's a beautiful tree & she is just wanting to dig it out and toss it.

Thanks all for your time

Comments (15)

  • larke
    14 years ago

    Wow, that's a big tree! You're aware I guess that maple roots grow laterally? It should be easier to dig, right? But there'll be a huge mass, mess, whatever under the ground no matter what, and it'll be hugely heavy. I don't know if I'd test your neighbour's patience with one year of layering and then dig the next, though. Have you ever dug trees before? Possibly with a winch on a pick-up and/or lots of help? Do you have where to put it immediately after digging (light shade vs full sun) and fast draining soil? You say it's a beautiful tree, but what will it look like chopped (e.g. have you noted branches vs just its overall look now? Your idea about root cutting is good, but you'll still need help and knowledge.

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    14 years ago

    If you're serious about lifting the tree, I would start now in preparation for lifting the tree next spring. How to do it so the tree survives:

    Fertilize the tree. You're going to be doing a LOT of serious root pruning on the tree in situ. Think in terms of a 24-30" octagon with the tree at it's center. Sharpen a spade (or you may need to use loppers or a saw) and sever the roots on 4 opposite sides of the octagon now. As leaves are turning in the fall, do the other 4 sides. You might do N,S,E,W the first time (now), and NE, SE, SW, NW in the fall. Angle the spade toward the trunk as you cut through the roots, but don't be tempted to pry upward on the tree.

    This type of root-pruning forces root breaks on conductive roots close to the trunk where none occurred before (just like it does on branches). Doing it in 2 stages minimizes stress on the tree. Lift the tree next spring before bud movement and bare root it. Reduce roots as best you can and get it into a container.

    You will be saving the surface roots and eventually removing the lower layers of roots, so use a razor knife to slice strips from the sides of the upper roots and treat them with rooting hormone. This will help stimulate new lateral root growth from these areas so you can begin the process of getting it in a container. I guess you never really SAID you were going to try to get it in a container, but the advice still stands if you're only going to transplant, though if that's the case you could be a little more generous with the size of the octagon if you think you can manage the weight, and skip the bare-rooting.

    There are some issues other than root reduction that need to be addressed if you do intend to use this tree as a bonsai specimen. If you are, you might wish to discuss that idea a little more.

    Al

  • head_cutter
    14 years ago

    A tree of that size would make a beautiful specimin Jap. Maple but you don't say if you want Bonsai or are just moving it to your yard. That information would be helpful as all get out.

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    14 years ago

    Actually, one of the issues I wanted to discuss is the fact that a tree with an 8" trunk will normally have very little (no) taper, so growing it in a pot and developing believable taper in our lifetime isn't an option. It would have to be returned to the ground, or cut extremely tight to the nebari and then developed as a multi-trunk/clump planting. In any case, it's an extremely ambitious undertaking.

    Al

  • plantsonthepoint
    14 years ago

    Well I say congrats and go for it! It sounds like a candidate for a raised bed. It would give you the control of container growing, the look, and keep the newly root pruned tree from extending new lateral roots too far. Also, you could plan to leave it in the new raised bed, i.e. build no bottom, and begin pruning to desired shape as if it's a giant specimen, which it is. I recommend using landscape timbers sawn at, theoretically, 67.5 degrees on each end. You could use eight sides, to follow Al's advice, and build as high as you wanted to go. Making the eight segments of each layer a little longer than the eight previous will change the look of the "pot" very dramatically. Good luck!
    ---Keith

  • head_cutter
    14 years ago

    One of the few cases where good 'ole Al and I can agree, to get a decent Bonsai, in your life time, it's gotta go back in the ground for a while. It will take forever to develope the tree in a pot. You can do everything else to it in the ground as far as styling; pruning, wiring, everything...you just can't take it with you.

    You have a straight trunk and about the only choices are a formal upright or a 'short' cut for a clump. I'd suggest cutting it back to about 5 or 6 feet and taking possession then take your time looking and deciding what to do from there.

    The root ball doesn't have to be that big either. I've swapped-out quite a few landscape trees in the past in North America. If you dig it with a nice compact 24 to 30" root ball there shouldn't be a problem...why?...it was planted as a nursery plant (out of a container) and it will have a more established root mass than a tree grown from seed in the ground.

    Then, after you've got it about ready to put in a large Bonsai pot (after a number of years) and it's been 'undercut' about every second year to insure a good well developed root system, it will be easy to lift and pot.
    I will suggest looking around and getting ideas from some Bonsai people who have worked at giving a tree with no taper one that looks decent. It's also a matter of 'hiding' what you had to do to make it look good in the end. Not hard but it takes time.

    Bob

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    14 years ago

    Trust me - if the tree has an 8" trunk, there will be very few fine roots in the near vicinity of the bole, no matter if it was from seed or from a cutting.

    Al

  • head_cutter
    14 years ago

    There is also another approach to a tree with little or no taper, a little more dramatic but works as Bonsai.
    You would probably want to do some looking and maybe sketching a few ideas out before starting the process;

    Visually break the tree up in quarters, develope the lower 3/4 of the tree normally as a formal upright with maybe 5 well formed branches. Jin the last quarter into the taper maybe even leaving a few branches to be used in this composition. The end result would be a tree that looked like it was broken off at the top due to natural causes in the wild. A little dramatic but it solves the taper problem faster than growing a new leader.

    Bob

  • jasoncoco
    14 years ago

    I know of a lady who also has some full grown japanese maples that she has cut back in recent years to be used as bonsai. I was going to dig her one up and me one up but she said that it was too late. That the sap had begun to flow. But there were no leaves on it. I trust her judgment but i have always read that spring is the best time to dig most trees. Is there an exception for these. Thanks, Jason.

  • head_cutter
    14 years ago

    When you have a choice I always prefer to dig in spring for almost any tree however, you don't always have a choice. Many of my 'gift' trees were offered at the wrong time. You then have to rely on the right kind of after-care to keep it going. Early or very early spring is the best time for most deceduous trees, it will be the most sucessful dig.

    Bob

  • head_cutter
    14 years ago

    Of course the missnomer here is in the title of the post. 'Collecting' refers trees collected in the wild, ones growing in a place not in someones yard or landscape, a tree/shrub which has grown from a seed or root-volunteer or a 'natural' ground layering. Which this isn't.

    There has been no information given to indicate where you are located and we must guess that a Japanese Maple is not a native tree. This being true--it follows that the tree was bought from a nursery or landscaper--it came in a pot/container/B&B and was 'installed' in a yard/landscape.

    When the tree was planted it had a well developed root system which was probably the size of the container it came in. Yes, it has put out surface roots which have ranged a little. Trees collected in the wild have root systems which range very far from the tree, in most cases you are cutting a large root with no fiburous roots to support what you are collecting.

    We are talking about 'transplanting' rather than 'collecting' this tree.

    Bob

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    14 years ago

    Semantics. Collecting is collecting; no matter whether it's from mountain slopes or the back yard of Aunt Gladys. Collecting yamadori (literally: 'collected from the mountain', but in bonsai circles it has come to mean 'from the wild') is certainly a further refinement of the term, but the differences are not as distinct as you would have us believe for plants that have been in the ground long enough to develop an 8" trunk.

    We can't make sweeping generalizations about 'how to collect' old trees on the hillside vs those in aunties back yard because treatment varies not only by species, but from individual tree to tree. That some fraction of nursery trees were developed from cuttings or are grafted to stock from cuttings and therefore lack the singular tap root that commonly develops from the seed radicle is no reason to think that trees in the ground don't develop tap roots and the same type of root systems that trees in the wild develop. Especially in Acers, the difference in how we would treat the root systems of nursery stock that has matured to the point where it has an 8" trunk vs in situ trees when lifting them is insignificant or non-existent.

    Al

  • head_cutter
    14 years ago

    Wasn't talking about tap roots Al, the root system in general. There is, it was and it does. Don't know about your Bonsai 'circles' but in mine the terms 'collecting' and 'transplanting' have two different meanings.

    Of course we have no idea where this tree is as far as growing season, conditions, etc., it could have been planted when it had a 3" trunk.

    Bob

  • jasoncoco
    14 years ago

    I am in zone 7b/8a in NC. The trees were inherited from the lady's mother. Not sure where they came from or how they were started but i would guess they are at least 30. Whenever i was going to dig it was early march. Right about the time it starts to warm up a little but still have freezing temps at night. I figured that was the best time to dig them. Since i didnt get to dig it this winter, we are going to do it next winter. That way we can also root prune them this year.

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    14 years ago

    Sound reasoning, Jason. If transplanting, dig as soon as the frost is out of the ground & transplant immediately. If you intend to move them into a container, dig when you see buds moving on your other Acers that are already containerized; or hopefully you note(d) when the buds first started to swell this year so you can dig them 1-2 weeks earlier than that date next spring.

    BTW - I never said 'collecting' and 'transplanting' have the same meaning.

    Al

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