Hi, you're correct about bonsai soil not holding water - that's the intention because if it weren't, the tree's roots would be sitting in water for too long and rot (in a pot). The point is to give the tree a drink, to bring a little oxygen into the mix, to hold just a little moisture for a relatively short time, and then need another drink in however many days or weeks (i.e. some species, and more over winter) is necessary. Watering bonsai is an art in itself, and it can take quite some time to get the hang of it so that you don't end up drowning the tree, a newbie problem for almost everyone who thinks they must baby the "little" tree and treat it like a house plant. Each species is different, of course, plus the season, temperature, available hours of light, soil mix, etc. will all make a difference to when you water or not, so you need to be familiar with the current needs of each tree as you go. It takes time, but is also rewarding.

As far as 'natural' soil goes, you don't want to use it for other reasons. Yes, if you dig a tree for bonsai you would initially take some of the soil to help with the transition to being grown in a container, but that's the only time it's done because you are taking the chance of bringing in who knows what pathogens that may be in there, and/or insect eggs, or things just not desirable for growth - all apart from the fact the soil would very likely end up compacting on itself from the weight, making it impossible for roots to absorb the water they need. Most 'bonsai' mixes are mostly grit, but depending on the tree and other factors, various small amounts of organic components are usually added as well to help hold some moisture, and provide trace elements of chemicals needed that aren't always available in fertilizer. As for trees dying from not being in their own soil, most can in fact be grown in almost anything that is supportive - experiments have been done with everything from broken glass to children's blocks - and is clean and holds enough water for growth. And of course not having the whole "ground" (terra firma) for drainage is vital (see the start of this note). Tiny pots are not natural for growing trees in, but if done carefully and knowledgably, can be used and the trees end up being happier and living longer sometimes than they do in nature.

One last thing - you don't want to make your trees look like bonsai. You do want to make your bonsai look like trees. And while the end results cannot perfectly mimic "real" trees, as the relative proportions would make them undesirable some of the time, we try hard to make the illusion of reality as close as possible to nature, vs just creating some fantastically unnatural looking thing, which is why you'll often hear bonsai people talk about "mall-sai" (very young trees mass produced, usually in China) for sale in big box stores, Wal-Mart, etc., all of them looking alike, all called "bonsai" though none are anywhere near being that yet, and all trained into what we call "S" shapes, or some other shape nature had nothing to do with creating. While a very good, and/or patient grower can occasionally make a passable bonsai out of such 'starters" we generally like to bypass them for healthy nursery plants instead.

And one last thing - digging trees for bonsai is more complicated than you would imagine. They are called yamadori, by the way, and require experience and knowledge to get away with, and without those (and very often even with them) you most often will end up with dead trees. It's not the same thing as e.g. moving one yard tree to a different spot in the garden. And so it is always strongly advised to NOT acquire your trees that way - there are plenty of other sources.

SS - don't neglect your native larch. They make excellent bonsai specimens. Forests plantings are sometimes easier, so collecting several larch with low branches that can be trained to new tops is always fun & offers a lot of visual appeal.

I'm getting off topic. If you're serious about wanting to try on bonsai to see how it fits, and want to learn the basics of how soil works, you can follow the link below to another forum and a thread that explains why native soils are problematic for container culture. You can also interact with others and ask all the questions you want - here of there, it makes no matter.

Al

Here is a link that might be useful: More about soils

SS - don't neglect your native larch. They make excellent bonsai specimens. Forests plantings are sometimes easier, so collecting several larch with low branches that can be trained to new tops is always fun & offers a lot of visual appeal.

I'm getting off topic. If you're serious about wanting to try on bonsai to see how it fits, and want to learn the basics of how soil works, you can follow the link below to another forum and a thread that explains why native soils are problematic for container culture. You can also interact with others and ask all the questions you want - here of there, it makes no matter.

Al

Here is a link that might be useful: More about soils

Great Infol!-

Any book recommendations?

Thanks, S

The two John Naka books are wonderful - especially for understanding design. Deb Koreshoff's book "Bonsai" is excellent, too. For the very basics, the Sunset book, also titled "Bonsai" is surprisingly well done and worth buying. Get the 2003 edition. There are soo many other good bonsai books, but most tend to shine in certain areas and gloss over others. Amy Liang's book, "The Living Art of Bonsai" is also very good.

The books that held the most value for me were not specifically targeted toward bonsai. They were books about general and woody plant physiology, and books that went into great detail about the science of plant production in containers. That's how I learned how plants work and how to keep them alive and healthy - probably the most important key to a rewarding bonsai experience. The revolving door plant syndrome will soon frustrate the beginning bonsai practitioner who can't keep his/her trees alive, so an early focus in the areas I mentioned will save a lot of future heartache if you're in it for the long haul.

Al

Hi-
Please post back with some pics after your tree gets going. I have land in northern Michigan and I was thinking about using a cedar tree as yamadori. We have an area with tons of cedar trees and I love them, but am not sure how one would fare living in a container. I am thinking of trying this next time we go up (summer).

Sims- Tsuga ("cedars") are actually not cedars, only Cedrus are, but everyone calls them cedars (I do know what you mean). While they are used for bonsai, I do not think you should start out with them this year. For one thing, summer is the worst time for digging trees - they won't survive - and without prior experience and knowledge of how to do it (not the same as moving a tree from one part of your land to another) for bonsai, your chances of having a live tree are very slim. I suggest you find a local club to join and learn as much as you can not just about digging cedars, but about horticulture and bonsai iin general, as well as reading everything you can, before either digging anything, or buying anything. Try www.bonsai4me.com for basics, and www.evergreengardenworks.com re conifers. There's a lot to learn.

Thanks for the tip and the site. I have had lots of luck with many other horticultural endeavors, but this art of bonsai is challenging.

Al-

Can you recommend a woody plant physiology book.

Thanks- S

Kozlowski and Pallardy have two excellent texts on woody plant physiology. They are "The Physiology of Woody Plants" and "Growth Control in Woody Plants". If you want to expand your library, please don't miss "Plant Production in Containers II" By Dr. C Whitcomb. The first two might have areas that are a little tough sledding if you don't have some plant science (botany) in your background, but there is still more than enough info, even for beginners, to make them well worth their price.

Al