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deiscorides

Anyone have a shito-sized bonsai?

deiscorides
17 years ago

I have a shito-sized sugar maple in the informal upright style (see pic.) ItÂs only 7cm (2 3/4th inches) tall. I'm surprised at the number of leaves it already has and at how small they are at the moment. Right now I'm using a clear, plastic, votive candle container as a pot. I would like to acquire a clay pot instead. Finding one that small is becoming a problem.

As for watering, I've been keeping tabs on the look of the soil through the clear container. Though when I repot the tree into a clay pot I plan on keeping it somewhat buried in wet sand until I display it.

I want so much to keep this cute thing on my desk inside. To bad I can't do that all the time. :(

{{gwi:11036}}

Comments (32)

  • brendan_of_bonsai
    17 years ago

    Wow, thats amazingly small; How old is it?

  • deiscorides
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    brendan_of_bonsai:

    It's one year and a few months old. After I repotted it to the container you see in the above pic I think I may have damaged the tiny roots. The top 3-4 leaves have dried out as a result. Hopefully, that will be similar to giving it a slight trim and when it recovers it should have even more leaves.

    I've been afraid it will start to produce much larger leaves, but it hasn't yet. *crosses fingers*

    Being so small, you have to be extremely careful or they will die almost immediatly.

    :/

  • paradisefound
    17 years ago

    truly amazing how nature can make due with the little space it has. does that candle holder have any drainage? you can find tiny clay pots at craft stores like Michael's, though often they don't have drainage holes. Brian

  • deiscorides
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    paradisefound:

    No drainage holes. It's so small it doesn't need it. Transpiration from the leaves and evaporation from the rough peddles is enough. If it was any faster then I would have trouble watering it.

  • terrestrial_man
    17 years ago

    Do you have any Milk of Magnesia in the house?
    You may want to use the little cup that you use to dose with the medicine for your plant instead!

    Also how about a few pin holes in the bottom sides of this little cup-I would use a dissecting pin.
    Also use aquarium gravel instead of the large pebbles. Put a small layer on the bottom of the cup and mix gravel into your soil mix.
    Repot without disturbing the roots any more than possible and adding the new gravel/soil mix around the sides.
    Topcoat with coarse sand not the gravel-as it detracts from the scene though you may want to add one large pebble that is nice looking to make a scene out of your miniature.

    There are also mini-bonsai pots too!

  • brendan_of_bonsai
    17 years ago

    I think the suggestion about putting sand ontop of the soil rather than the coarse gravle might be a good one, also without drainage the level of salts and alkaline deposits in your soil will slowly rise and that will damage the roots of this tree, However I think sandy soil rather than gravle in the soil would be a better way to achieve it, in addition to drainage holes. You could maybe put some crosslinked polyarylamide (water retaining crystals/ diper filling) in the soil to retain some water but not keep the roots wet, this might aid you in keeping it watered.

  • deiscorides
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    Thanks for all the advice. I've found it better to use plain potting soil for these small trees for at least 2 years. Seems to have something to do with them being seedlings the first year and needing a natural soil base. They can't be called bonsai until at least 5 years when I move them into the mini-clay pots and use substrate instead of soil. The gravel you see are about 3-10mm in width and is used to keep the tree straight until it roots itself enough in the soil. Then they are removed at a later date.

    Burying the pots in a larger pot of moist sand almost has to be done in order for shito to survive any length of time.

    Oh, and it seems one of my cats decided he or she wanted to help with my little maple (the one in the above photo.) I found it this afternoon at my doorstep, just the tree sans the pot and soil. It was completely dried out and dead by the time I stumbled upon it. But, that's okay; I have a few dozen more. Guess I'll have to get out my hardware cloth and make a cage for all my shito after all. *sigh*

    I use to keep smaller shito inside of miniature terrariums made from those old "egg" cases for Leggs brand pantyhose. Wish I could still find that kind of containers these days.

  • terrestrial_man
    17 years ago

    ah! a fellow buy it for the container freak!
    golly gee I cannot even think of something like the pantyhose egg in years. Closest I can come to is the McSalad container at McDonalds. In looking over my pile of containers it is the only one that comes close to what you are looking for. I got it years ago so I have no idea if it is even the same any more. You may also want to check out their sundae containers-ummmm! maybe a couple of sundaes!!!

  • brendan_of_bonsai
    17 years ago

    There is some sort of hazel nut chocolate candy that comes in gold colored foil, bit smaller than a ping pong ball, R????? they try and paint themselves as a ritzy thing, and they are pretty good, but for easter they had eg shaped containers that held like a dozzen or so stacked up in the center, unfortunately the container I was going to use to pot up a venus flytrap for my little brother was stepped on, but next easter they may put them out again, top half was translucent, bottom half had a gold color on the outside but it had a flat bottom so it would work wonderfully as a terrarium for one small plant. Oh well.

    I have a little birch growing on the back of the waterfall we built out in the front garden and I have considered getting it a really tiny pot and keeping it small, but I am afraid that Colorado would not be to kind to it, I will however try to post a picture in the near future.

  • deiscorides
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    terrestrial_man:

    Ohhh, I never thought of those food containers. I've seen a few sundae containers like that around here. I'll have to find one that looks decent and doesn't have logos. That's why those Leggs containers were perfect. Last one I had was from about 3-4 years ago. Haven't seen any since. They were perfect for an office desk.

    brendan_of_bonsai:
    "Colorado would not be to kind to it"

    Do it anyway. For the winter, dig a hole about one foot wide and one foot deep or how ever big you need it to fit your tree in; just no less than 1x1 foot. Fill it 2/3rds full with sand. Place your tiny potted tree in it and then fill it with more sand until only the top most leaves of the tree are exposed(some people completely bury their trees, though I never have.) Place a cover over it and make sure the cover won't fly away. Try not to use a black cover because if there's a chance that the sun would shine on it it might (slight chance in a Colorado winter) raise the temps inside so much that the tree come out of dormancy. Make sure the hole in the ground is somewhere dry and not somewhere rain and snow runoff will fill the hole. Having the whole somewhere away from direct wind will help. Check the sand every so often during the winter to make sure it doesn't completely dry out.

    One winter in recent memory, here in WV, temps dipped to -42F. So, I always try to use this "poor man's cold frame" for my tiniest bonsai; just incase.

  • terrestrial_man
    17 years ago

    I know what you are talking about Brendan! Great candy
    but those pyramids are so expensive so I will only get the
    same ones in the small rectangular clear plastic box with the YUMMY!! round candies of macademia nuts (?) that literally melt in your mouth!
    You may want to check with a large grocery store that has a candy aisle. The ones I like are generally available though I have seen the pyramids locally but until they go on sale!!
    untouchable.

    I think the brand starts with R ??

  • brendan_of_bonsai
    17 years ago

    Its the dry summer heat that worries me, its zone 6 and I'm in zone 4 and the native birch are good to zone 2. It gets to -40 in WV? thats mighty cold, Up high on a mountainperhaps?

    Ferrero Rocher is the name of the candy according to my older brother.

  • lucy
    17 years ago

    Hi BofB, birch can take any cold most of N.Amer. can throw at them, but in a teeny tiny pot, you'd have to sink it in a pot of sand just to protect the pot if nothing else, and your wind could be a problem with dessication prior to leaf drop. But then that goes for any tree in those conditions. Maples like it very cold too (or they can't make sap), but those pots... no room for forgiveness.

  • brendan_of_bonsai
    17 years ago

    Oh, Im afraid I haven't made myself clear enought, I'm from somewere cold (Alaska) and I have a birch from that same somewere, however I don't think that they can handle the Dry high altitude heat, the heat of summer, winter I could do just fine, its summer that worries me, I'm so high and dry in Colorado that there aren't even quaking aspen, which are a mountain tree.

  • deiscorides
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    brendan_of_bonsai:

    lol I see. Instead of the hole in the ground with sand and a cover, which you can still use for winter, use a large pot filled with sand. It is the standard way to keep shito and mame sized bonsai so that they won't dry out in a few hours. Bury their tiny pots in the moist sand fully; no need for a cover. Leave the foliage exposed. When you display them you'll need to clip the roots that grown through the drainage holes into the sand.

    terrestrial_man and brendan_of_bonsai:

    I was at Wal-Mart last night. Just inside the door there are 50 cent toy machines. They are red and act somewhat like a gumball machine. Inside of them are toys incased in near-exact "egg" containers with flat bottoms that LeggÂs pantyhose used to make. They come in tiny, medium, and large depending on the size of the toy.

    lucy:
    "but those pots... no room for forgiveness."

    Indeed. 1 hour in the hot sun unprotected or 5 hours in windy shade unprotected can completely dry out some of the smaller ones; killing the tree.

    *wonders off to his driveway in search of fossil encrusted stones for future Root-Over-Rock style shito and mame bonsai.*

  • lucy
    17 years ago

    Deis.. where the $*(& do you live? Fossil encrusted stones? Sheesh!

  • deiscorides
    Original Author
    17 years ago

    lucy:

    West Virginia (North-west part.) My river behind my house has many shale fossils, but they won't last long once exposed and are very brittle. The ones I am referring to are the occasional fossils you can find in imported driveway gravel; Fossils and pyrite (Iron Sulfide, aka, Fool's Gold.) Some may be marcasite instead of pyrite. Nothing special really, but very fetching when used with shito and mame bonsai. Lava rock used as landscaping gravel can harbour some very nice stones for the same purpose.

    Finding exceptional pyrite formations, nice fossils of crustaceans and shells, or a nice ancient-looking lava rock is like finding buried treasure almost. I found only a fossil fragment of a shell the size of a dime. Though, I did find some neat stones with unique properties that draw your eye to them. I might as well use them

    Here are two nice pyrite photos:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrite

    I've always wanted to use a pretty geode or large quart crystal formation as a Root-Over-Rock stone for bonsai.

  • nepheron
    17 years ago

    You said you had trouble finding a shito sized dish for your plant... you can make your own by using polymer clay. You bake this clay in a simple oven.

    if you feel uncomfortable making the pot, i would gladly make one for you at your specifications in exchange for some more info on how you managed to keep the plant that small.....

    thanks!
    calvin

    ps, go to wall mart or something and go into the wedding stuff. that section often has funny dome like bowls--perfect for a terrarium enviroment

  • lucy
    17 years ago

    Polymer pots won't stand up to water long, but I do suggest if you want little bonsai pots (I have some) to write to -

    Kim's Nature
    10011 Highway 48 RR 1 Stn Main
    Markham, Ontario
    L3P 3J3
    Canada

    Tel: 905-201-6166
    Fax: 905-294-3301

  • nepheron
    17 years ago

    lucy, what are the pots made of??

  • lucy
    17 years ago

    Pottery clay, porcelain even, and some real antiques - but of course you get to pay for those accordingly! She imports them.

  • nepheron
    17 years ago

    what are the average price of these??

  • mine_only
    15 years ago

    Hi there,
    I was inspired by your post and am also going to try and train a field maple into bonsai. Probably broom shape. Would love to post a pic but don't know how to!

  • lucy
    15 years ago

    There are instructions at the bottom of the Gallery page on this forum (click on Gallery near the top of the postings). I'd tell you, but don't do pix, so... You can also attach links to places like Photobucket, etc.

  • mine_only
    15 years ago

    Thanks Lucy. Had a look at the instructions but apparently I can't post a photo as this is a follow up message. Not really sure if I should start a new thread

  • beachplant
    15 years ago

    ah, the Leggs containers. I used to crochet animals that used those as a base. You could put stuff in them to make them rattle. Must've made a million of them. Then one day, no more Leggs-they switched to an environmentally friendly cardboard container. Ahead of their time. But it's been 8,9,10 years since they made the switch. Glad to know other people look at stuff & buy it for the container not what is in the container.
    Tally HO!

  • kendal
    15 years ago

    Here is mine, next year it should be ready for a Bonsai pot. Deiscot(if you are still around) you shouldn't put it in a Bonsai pot until your trunk is the size you want. The two most important aspects to a Bonsai are the Nebari and trunk. My second picture is the Nebari. The first I still have to prune off 2 of the 3 main branches, but that will be done mid-summer.

    {{gwi:11038}}

    {{gwi:11039}}

  • mawehe63
    15 years ago

    seeing yours has inspired me to get some shito sized bonsai i now have three which r just seedlings that sprouted maybe two weeks ago and their bonsai pots are coke caps with drain holes punched in ones pretty tall with a nice bend in it the other is really small but it looks really nice the other doesnt look as healthy but itll get better ill try to get pix soon best of luck with yours

  • joshinator
    15 years ago

    Pretty cool. I have a shito-sized Portulacaria afra (baby jade, dwarf jade, elephant bush) that I grow in a votive-candle holder with a drainage hole, just like yours. They like drier soil, though, so I don't have to water it as much. I have tropical bonsai, so I keep them inside; I have a ficus, as well as a couple other houseplants trained as bonsai. I actually have 4 keshi-tsubu bonsai (less than 1 inch tall) growing on pieces of landscaping lava gravel. That stuff is full of character, even as small as it is! They are all houseplants (except for one), and as such, nontraditional species of bonsai. One is pincushion plant, a low groundcover less than 1/2 in. tall naturally. One is a hybrid between Echeveria and Graptopetalum, sort of like a jade plant, but doesn't branch and the leaves are blue. One is a tiny air plant that actually doesn't need dirt. The last one is a tiny Sedum reflexum. This is interesting because it is a fast-spreading groundcover with 6-inch tall stalks covered in thin, almost needlelike leaves. It grows as fast as bamboo, spreads like dandelions, propagates from any part of the plant, and can tolerate months of drought. It typically doesn't branch unless the apex breaks off, then it sprouts an apex from nearly every leaf base. This promises to be interesting, because it grows so fast. I like to keep all my lava-rock bonsai in a shallow tray with 1/8 inch of water; surface tension pulls the water up through the cracks in the rock and completely soaks it, keeping the rock and plant moist. Anyway, didn't mean to take over the thread, but there's my two cents (or two dollars) on mini-bonsai.

  • joshinator
    15 years ago

    Also, Old Tree Bonsai sells teeny-tiny bonsai pots and trays in 6-packs for $35, or individually for $3.50 apiece, plus $3.50 for shipping and handling. Hope this helps!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Old Tree Bonsai Mame Pots

  • HU-305581834
    2 years ago

    I grow portulacaria afra bonsai as you have full control of shape and size. Rooting is not a problem but over watering and feeding can be a problem. Keeping the plant 3 inches tall is fiddly but with practise easy. Just take a number of cuttings and allow to dry for at least 24 hours. I do use rooting compound. You train them to any shape you like.

    Be safe

    Gordon

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    2 years ago

    Images, please?


    Al

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