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manbird1

pinus sylvestris pre-bonsai

manbird1
13 years ago

whats up people? newb here with some basic questions....

So i bought this dwarf scotch pine last year and need some input on what to do as far as styling goes. I know its a long process but I was thinking the tree would be suited well for an informal upright tree. I havent really mucked with it too much. A light needle plucking here and there and I removed two branches...One low branch, hardly an inch above the soil line and on the inside of the bend in the trunk, and one on the back side...almost as low as the former. I look at this tree and have a hard time knowing where to start. Do i just let it continue to grow and see what happens or do i begin to style now? Like i said, Im new to bonsai and could really use some expert advice on where to go as far as styling. ive pretty much focused my effforts on keeping it alive and paying attention to the way it grows.

thanks

http://s929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/manbird1/?action=view&current=IMG_0206.jpg

Comments (10)

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    13 years ago

    Your doesn't work at the moment.


    Josh

  • larke
    13 years ago

    Hi - it's too bad you cut that lowest branch - it would have been very useful in thickening the lower trunk. Even when such branches (lowest) don't fit in with your final design, they're left on until then and only cut off when you're happy with the trunk, which is why they're called sacrifice branches (for future ref. :-).
    I'm going to send you to www.evergreengardenworks.com to learn all about conifers and what to do with which ones when (during the year), as it's the best place I know of to do it. Also try to find a local club because they're great for the same reason. Don't do any more to it now (I'll presume you have it outdoors for life) until you have a better idea of what's what. Good luck.

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    13 years ago

    Nice tree. If an informal upright, as I look at it, I don't see the main trunk (center) as being part of the composition, other than a sacrifice branch to help fatten the lower trunk & improve taper. You can look at your tree two ways - you can find the best view of the roots and build your tree from the roots up, or you can reward yourself with a faster tree and style it around what is there in front of you. Either way is ok - there's no judgment.

    If I assume you're sort of anxious to make a nice tree out of it, I think the first thing you need to do is choose which of the other two sides of the slingshot will provide your trunk line. That would be selecting the branch provides the best 'flow and continuity' - the branch your eye naturally goes to as the continuation of the trunk. If the center branch distracts you, cover it with a paper towel or light colored rag.

    You have an issue to deal with. That is, both arms of the slingshot are approximately the same size. After you select the trunk line, you need to wire or pull the other branch down to a horizontal position or slightly lower, and cut it back hard to slow it down & to let the main trunk get fatter than the branch. Make sure you leave viable needles & buds on the branch or it will die back. The pruning will also force back-budding and give you opportunities to shorten that branch and introduce some taper into it.

    With that taken care of, move your attention to introducing some 3 dimensional movement into the main trunk - wire it so it's a little more vertical and remove all but one branch from the first whorl on the new main trunk. You could also use the thick middle branch as a 'post' to tie your new leader to so it's more vertical. Leave stubs when you prune off the branches competing for the second branch. If anything green breaks from the stubs, rub the buds off - you want them to die back for removal later. Wire that (the second) branch horizontal as well. Also wire the buds at the end of your branches so they face up.

    That will give you your main branch and a back branch. From that point on, the branches are so flexible you can tie them in knots if you want to. ;o)

    You could even start to develop your third branch if you wish, and choose an apex. I hope that made sense. Questions?

    Al

  • manbird1
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thanks for the input everybody...I really appreciate the insight.

    larke...evergreengardenwoks is an awesome site, thanks for the reccomendation. Lots of good material based on plant biology and bonsai experience.

    Tapla...er...Al...thats exactly what ive been looking for. I have a hard time making a decision based on what the tree is telling me to do. I look at it and know what I eventually would like to see but my lack of experience makes it difficult to sift through the options at hand. Awesome advice! Decisions, decisions.

    My gut feeling tells me to go with the branch on the right. If it were tied to the middle trunk or "post" as you suggested, Looks like it would create a nice gentle bend back to the left to create some movement in the main trunk line. The growth seems to be a bit easier to select from on that side. The first whorl of branches are a bit thicker and and there are only 4 or 5 versus 7-8 on the opposing side, making it a bit easier to select a branch to continue the trunk line upwards.

    When is the ideal time to do this and how much can be done in a single sitting? Could i go ahead and wire/prune to create the beginnings of my first horizontal branch and tie off the other to also start on the trunk line? Is Mid-summer an ideal time for quick healing?

    Thanks again everybody...greatly appreciated!!

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    13 years ago

    You can prune pines all year, but I prefer to do most of the work in mid-summer before the second push of growth. I worked last night on a white pine I'm developing in the literati style that required considerable bending of a 3/4" trunk (want a picture?). I also did some heavy pruning.

    What you're saying makes good sense to me. Ultimately, you'll be shooting for a tree that's about 3 times as tall as the distance between the soil line and the first branch, so keep that in mind. You may need to introduce more movement into the trunk above the first branch to get the tree so it's the right height, but be careful not to add so much movement that it's incongruous with the movement of the lower trunk.

    You can do quite a bit of work on your tree right now. I would start on pulling the first branch down, as you mentioned. You may wish to relieve the wood above the branch with your concave cutter to make it easier to pull down. The tree will look best if the branch leaves the trunk at the horizontal, rather than leaving it at an upward angle & then being pulled down. I do this all the time with conifers. As long as you don't go crazzy and cut 3/4 of the way through the branch, the tree will handle it well.

    Remember to leave stubs on the branches until they dry back & die. Any other wounds from flush cuts will heal faster if you coat them with Vaseline or Prep-H and cover loosely with tinfoil.

    You're going to? ....

    * Pull the left branch down & cut it back hard to force back-budding closer to the trunk.
    * Move/wire the main trunk, which will be a sacrifice branch, out of the way.
    * Make the right branch the new leader and establish the second (back) branch coming off that by removing all but 1 branch from the first whorl - pinch out the vigorous tips to force back-budding
    * Let the tree rest & recover until this time next year.

    Al

  • manbird1
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Heres a little update....Did some work over the weekend. Im pretty satisfied with the progression. I approached it with the intention to create some flowing bends and some overall movement. This is really my first attempt at wiring/styling a tree so Im pretty much just trying to have fun and take the time to chill....thanks again for some great advice, Im open to input and welcome any more suggestions.

    http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/manbird1/IMG_0007.jpg

  • larke
    13 years ago

    Looks good... You know, if you really wanted to do it 'right', you'd plant it in the ground for 3 yrs, chop it off so that only one branch was left, and wait for new to grow in, by which time you'd have a great trunk, for a 'real' bonsai!

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    13 years ago

    Very good - you still have one more branch to remove from the whorl where the trunk and second/back branch converge. There should be 2 branches there - not 3. You pretty much have the framework for your tree there now. Way to go!! Keep working on getting the branches to a more horizontal attitude & go to work on the details.

    Al

  • manbird1
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Im having a hard time deciding on the back branch. I think Im going to give it some time to back-bud and decide from there. There are actually two branches I could choose from, one is just more visible than the other.

    The whirls are pretty unsightly after the branches are removed. When is an appropriate time to clean them up and what kind of tool should i use? Ive got a dremel...maybe a fine grit sand bit would do the job once the stubs have dried up...

    I potted the tree up in a large planter that i had laying around. I didnt really mess with the roots...just put it in some really rich soil from another raised planter I built last year so I guess thats sort of close to planting it out in the ground. Should i fertilize before the second push of summer growth? I have some holly-tone, 4-3-4 I believe. Its totally organic and really light. What do you think?

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