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| I bought the tree in May and it was fine until I went on a holiday and left it with a friend. She hardly took any care of it and now it's not well. The soil was completely dry so I watered it as soon as I took it home (which was yesterday). All the leaves left were brown and dry. The whole tree looks dry and dead in comparison to what it looked like the last time I saw it. I've pruned it and took it outside but I'm worried it might not get better. Should I repot it? If so, what kind of mixture should I use? It is a chinese elm and I live in England, UK. Watching it die makes me so sad. Please help.
Thank you. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by gnome_in_pa Zone 6 (My Page) on Tue, Sep 26, 06 at 12:04
| Zita, Elms are pretty tough trees and you may be surprised. Scratch the bark slightly and look for green tissue. If you find it green your tree is still alive. Can you see new buds at the base of the old leaves, again a good thing. What does the soil look like? is it coarse and gritty or dense and peaty? Has the tree been kept indoors or out? This is an important consideration when you decide when to repot and how you will handle it over the winter. Chinese Elms are sub-tropical and can be handled as indoor or outdoor bonsai. Even trees that are kept inside over the winter do better outside in the summer. I allow mine to go dormant over the winter in an unheated garage. They are still out now and will be for some time to come. There is not a whole lot you can do at the moment. Be aware that since the tree now has no functioning leaves its water usage will drop drastically, not to mention the cooler weather slows water loss through evaporation. The worst thing you can do now is to overcompensate with excessive water. Norm |
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| Thank you Norm. I've scratched the bark and the tissue is green so I'm happy. I can't seem to find any new buds but I hope they'll appear soon. I'll just leave it outside for now and I won't water it for a while. Even if it recovers (and I'm really hoping it will) when would be the right time to repot it? Thank you so much for your advice. It made me feel a lot better. :) Zita |
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- Posted by gnome_in_pa Zone 6 (My Page) on Tue, Sep 26, 06 at 15:55
| Zita, I still would like to know how this tree has been handled and what your intentions for overwintering it are. Also the quality of soil has a bearing on this as well. This is all relevant in deciding when to repot. If you have been leaving it out up till now and intend to let it go dormant then a repot now would not be in order. But if you intend to treat it as houseplant for the winter then a repot now may be OK. If the soil is coarse and free draining I might be inclined to leave it alone until spring, but if the soil is less than ideal this would be an indicator that a repot now MAY be benificial, especially since it is now leafless. You have a bit of a dilema regarding repotting, if you leave it alone now, and keep it indoors next spring will be your next opportunity and it will at that time, presumably, be leafed out. So you can see why your plans for this tree are meaningful when making this decision. I would like to hear opinions from anyone else regarding this. Norm |
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- Posted by zzepherdogg 7 (My Page) on Tue, Sep 26, 06 at 20:36
| Hi, I dont know about this type of elm specificly, but I do have a huge elm, with small serrated leaves in my yard, and it has made lots of baby trees that Ive had good luck keeping in pots over the years. I have never taken one in the house. I think what really would make a difference in this story is what part of the UK you live in. There is , I understand, a huge range between Hampshire and the Far North.I live in the Pacific North West, so what I could do here, you could probably do from London south. all the babys I have had have gone into shock as soon as they got dry, unless they were in the ground. Once they had water, they have perked back up,. slowly, putting on buds over even as much as a month. I would never try to keep one dry, especialy if it were allready dry. If I really was attached to the plant, Id probably sink the pot its in, in the top of a bigger one, that could stay moist, till the crisis had passed. Mine have made it through a couple ice storms in a sheltered space under a big tree, between my house and my neighbors, up close to the house. This is definately a micro climate type of deal, and would not be like Edinburrah. so I guess if it were me, Id take it to a bonsai club, or person in my area who could tell me what kind it was for sure, then try to get a better idea from some one local about what they can do. Good luck. |
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- Posted by zzepherdogg 7 (My Page) on Tue, Sep 26, 06 at 20:44
| I did get a tree recently that looks alot like it, but is an indoor tree, in this area. It is called a zelkova, If they were side by side it would be very hard for me to tell one from the other, as a young, small tree. My other ulmus is Parviflora Hokaido, and its an out door one (zone7) , according to the tag. The outdoor ones will get shelter, but not heat , for the winter months. |
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| zzepherdogg Hate to rain on your parade, but zelkova is not an indoor tree. It is hardy to zone 5. randy |
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- Posted by zzepherdogg 7 (My Page) on Tue, Sep 26, 06 at 23:59
| Randy, Thanks for the info. It must have been miss-labled. I haven't been too hot on indoor plants, and didnt really want one, as much as it was really far along and available for tiny $. Nice thick twisted trunk, with big wide exposed root out from the trunk, but still a good balance. Ready to stick in a nicer pot and enjoy. So, your good information just makes it a nicer deal, Thanks again : ) |
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- Posted by zzepherdogg 7 (My Page) on Wed, Sep 27, 06 at 0:07
| Is this going to be hard to keep under 6 inches? Thats what I am aiming for any way. The little trees that I have are mostly in that range. A few smaller, (mame? Shonin?) |
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| Thanks to everyone for their advice. I think I'll keep it outside until it gets really cold. Norm, to answer your question, the soil looks ok although it seems there's some of it missing. It used to go up to the edge of the pot and now it's much lower so the trunk doesn't seem very stable if you know what I mean. Is this and indication of something? Since I'm gonna bring it inside for the winter what should I do next? Thank you. Zita |
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| Just top up the soil a bit, though not right at the trunk unless there's a darker border at the nebari below a defined line where it used to be. Does your pot have large drain holes withOUT plastic mesh over them, allowing a lot of soil to drain out, or (more likely) the soil has compacted a lot - not a good sign and not good soil, as roots have a hard time accessing water when the soil isn't 'open' (large particles, not muddy peat). |
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- Posted by gnome_in_pa Zone 6 (My Page) on Wed, Sep 27, 06 at 11:14
| Zita, Just leave it outside for now, a little cool weather certainly won't harm it and will probably be benificial. Continue to monitor your watering, never water on a schedule. When you bring it in you will probaly want to provide some type of supplemental lighting. A inexpensive fluorescent shop ligh on an equally inexpensive timer will be good. You can get the whole set up for under $25.00. The issue of the timing of the next repotting is still nagging at me. Since it has been stresed and you're a beginner perhaps it is just as well to let it be for now. Still curious about the quality if your soil, you say it is OK but this does not really tell us anything. Please re-read the first paragraph of my first post in this thread. Norm |
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| Norm, I've just checked and the soil is pretty peaty. Is that good or bad? Thanks. Zita |
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| Not good, it holds water for a long time at the roots and leads to rot, plus it's too fine for bonsai, which need coarse particles, grit, etc. to help it drain faster. |
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- Posted by gnome_in_pa Zone 6 (My Page) on Wed, Sep 27, 06 at 22:47
| Zita, As Lucy said, no it is not good. The roots of your tree require air as well as water. Bonsai soils are not soil at all but are composed of primarily in-organic materials. Lava rock, fired clay, even simple Perlite is superior to what you now have. A certain percentage of organic material, (usualy bark) is also included. Your tree will need to be repotted into a more appropriate mix, the only question when to do it. I have already outlined some of my concerns regarding the timing. To recap; your tree is leafless now, the soil is less than ideal and you intend to keep it as an indoor tree. If it were me I think that I would go ahead and risk it, but I hesitate to categorically state that you should do so. Check out the link below to the page of one of your fellow countrymen. See the info regarding mallsai and soil. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Bonsai 4 me
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| Norm and Lucy, thank you both so much. I've checked out the website and I'm gonna go ahead with the repotting. Probably next week. What mixture should I use? Should I buy it or mix it myself? And should it be 50:50 organic:grit? Wish me luck and I'll let you know how it goes. Zita x |
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| For the grit part, you can use small aquarium gravel, or if you're in the country, a feed store would have chicken grit (decomposed granite tho', not oyster shell type), and/or crushed lava rock, or pumice, or even perlite if you're really stuck. The soil part (50%) could be a good coarse loam, something with larger particles (as opposed to say african violet soil or peat), and just mix it all up together. |
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| Turface would be another good ingredient. randy |
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