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White powdery stuff on ilex leaves?

Posted by postum 9b CA (S.F.) (My Page) on
Wed, Sep 23, 09 at 17:10

Hello,

We have had an ilex ("Sparkleberry") for about one year. It is kept indoors by a window with good light. It has done very well but in the past two weeks it has developed a white powdery look on many leaves. This does not brush off. There has been no change in the treatment of it.

Do you have any idea what this might be, and how I might treat it? It is my dd's tree and she loves it dearly.

Thank you for you help,
Amy


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: White powdery stuff on ilex leaves?

The white stuff is probably a fungus of some kind. Take it to a county agricultural agent or an experienced nursery person for some advice on how to treat it. The tree should have been outside in a more natural environment. Very few plants thrive indoors and this applies to bonsai especially.


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RE: White powdery stuff on ilex leaves?

Depends on what the white looks like. If it is crusty and wipes away with a little water it could be minerals being wept with the plants natural processes.


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RE: White powdery stuff on ilex leaves?

  • Posted by postum 9b CA (S.F.) (My Page) on
    Thu, Sep 24, 09 at 16:57

Thank you for your suggestions!

I tried wiping the leaves with a damp cloth and the leaves still look white but the cloth came away bright green - Strange!

I have convinced dd(10) that her little tree will be happier outdoors. She has kept it indoors because she was afraid 'something' would happen it to. The weather here is quite mild so it shouldn't be too much of a shock, and I'm sure the fresh air will do it good. I have placed it in a sheltered but sunny area.

I'm going to take a cutting of the leaves to the nursery where the plant was purchased and see if we can get a diagnosis of our problem.

We water this plant daily and give it some Miracle Grow every now and then - maybe not frequently enough? I've really enjoyed helping dd with this project (she got a starter plant and potted it herself) and am going to try growing a juniper bonsai myself (well, since we'll be at the nursery anyway :-)

I'll let you know how our little Sparkleberry progresses!


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RE: White powdery stuff on ilex leaves?

If it is fungus use neem oil found at most garden stores it kills fungus repells bugs its good stuff if humidity is too high or if you mist too much fungus grows


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RE: White powdery stuff on ilex leaves?

Almost afraid to ask...

When you wipe a real leaf does color come off?
How does that work?

What's a 'dd' maybe never had one of those?

Bob


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RE: White powdery stuff on ilex leaves?

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Sat, Oct 17, 09 at 13:52

You can tell if the issue is fungal with a good magnifying glass or microscope of any quality by looking at cell walls where the white material is. If it's fungal, you'll be able to tell that cell walls have been compromised.

About what SF said above. We might muse that there is some possibility it is salt. Many plants are able to cope with high concentrations of particular or multiple types of ions in the soil by taking them up from the soil solution and then expelling them in concentrated form in a guttative exudate (search guttation). Simplified, this means that salt tolerant plants often employ the strategy of eliminating the salt they take up in a concentrated salt solution they weep through their leaves. Once the solution (exudate) dries, it leaves behind crystalline deposits to be eventually rinsed from the leaves by rain or diluted by dew. That many species of Ilex are salt-tolerant lends some support to the possibility you are witnessing one of the plant's normal mechanisms at work, but these deposits are usually somewhat localized & tend to accumulate at particular points where the plant weeps or the exudate collects - leaf-tips, e.g.

My guess, since holly are fairly susceptible to white powdery mildew, is that the strongest likelihood probably rests with that (fungal) malady. Botrytis (gray mold) might be another possibility. Difficult to pin down w/o a look, Amy. Good luck with your DD's tree. ;o)

Al


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RE: White powdery stuff on ilex leaves?

Bob, I believe DD is dear daughter. My 16 year old daughter is trying to teach me texting lingo. Who knew we could become illiterate so quickly?
I have a few questions. Wouldn't daily watering be overwatering for an indoor bonsai? I have had one juniper bonsai for a year, so I know very little about them and am asking to learn, not to express an informed opinion. The lady I bought my bonsai from said that when the bonsai is indoors to immerse the pot in a bowl or the sink with water to the top of the pot every 3 days and fertilize every 3 months or so. I use fish emulsion at about 1/2 strength.

Could Amy and her DD be overwatering and overfertilizing the ilex? Would that contribute to the fungus? I can see watering an outdoor bonsai daily, but daily for an indoor specimen seems like a lot. I know we live in very different climates and that will affect how we water.
From what I'm gathering in other forums, MG is like junk food for plants. It has it's place to jump start growth but has a lot of salt. However, if Amy is watering daily wouldn't that flush out excess salt? Should she try diluting the MG? How often do you suggest she fertilize?
Amy, I hope you get a diagnosis soon and keep us posted.


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RE: White powdery stuff on ilex leaves?

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Mon, Oct 19, 09 at 18:40

Daily watering might be too frequent for some trees and not frequent enough for others. Proper watering technique doesn't revolve around a schedule; rather, it is performed on an 'as needed' basis. I will say though, that the question becomes more critical in slower soils (slow-draining, more water-retentive). Soils with a particle size small enough to support perched water present considerable risk of over-watering if you adhere to a schedule. Conversely, as soils become faster, it is less problematic if you adhere to a schedule. As soil particle size becomes large enough that the soil holds no perched water, the danger in watering on a schedule practically disappears.

In the same vein, fertilizer is also best delivered on an as needed basis, with qualification. Plants require more nutrients when they are growing robustly than when they are lethargic, so we need to increase the frequency with which we fertilize or increase the solution strength. Fertilizers that derive their N from organic sources, including urea-based fertilizers, should be withheld when soil temperatures are above 80-85* or are below 55* to guard against ammonium toxicity (or switch to a nitrate source of N). There is no harm in fertilizing with low doses each time you water. If the solution strength is appropriate, this keeps nutrient levels in the adequacy range while the low levels of nutrients in the soil solution makes it very easy for the plant to absorb water AND the nutrients dissolved in water. Simplified, our job in providing nutrition to our trees is to make sure all the necessary nutrients are available in the soil in a favorable ratio and at levels low enough they don't impair the osmotic process and high enough to ensure there are no nutritional deficiencies. It's easier than it sounds, btw.

Over-watering and over-fertilizing could indirectly contribute to any fungal issues. Plants mount a number of genetically encoded responses to the chemical signals released when they are attacked by disease, ALL of which require energy allocation. In plant cells, there are genes that control proteins functioning in actual defense, sending defense signals/ chemical messengers, altering metabolism, controlling cellular maintenance, regulating photosynthesis, - and many more genes of unknown function. In short, plant energy reallocation is prioritized in the plant's own defense, & other things, like every day metabolism and photosynthesis are put on the back burner. The higher the plants level of energy (the greater it's vitality) and the faster it's metabolism - the faster the response and greater the amount of energy and defense bio-compounds the plant can devote to its own defense. Diminished vitality from bad watering/fertilizing practices = a plant weakened to fungal infection.

Plant food is not fertilizer or anything in the soil, plant food is the sugar they make during photosynthesis; but, if fertilizer was plant food, all plants could eat are salts. All the nutrients plants uptake are in salt form. Plants cannot utilize things like fish emulsion, blood meal, or organic soil components UNTIL they are acted upon by soil biota to break them down into elemental forms plants CAN absorb. There is a considerable advantage in having complete control over what nutrients plants get, their ratio (to each other), dosages, and when they get these nutrients. If I had to choose only 1 fertilizer with which I had to fertilize all my plants, I would choose a soluble fertilizer (like Miracle-Gro or others) in a 3:1:2 ratio (24-8-16, 12-4-8, 9-3-6 are all 3:1:2 ratio fertilizers) because it provides nutrients in almost exactly the same ratio at which they are actually used by plants.

Al


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RE: White powdery stuff on ilex leaves?

Great explanation! Thanks for straightening me out on fertilizers. Amy, I apologize if I hijacked your thread. I'm just learning.
Barb


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RE: White powdery stuff on ilex leaves?

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Wed, Oct 21, 09 at 9:25

I hope you understood what I meant in the last paragraph - should have proofread what I wrote. I might better have said something like Plant food is not fertilizer, nor is any thing in the soil or any part of the soil plant food; plant food is the sugar plants make during photosynthesis ......

Thanks for the kind words, Barb.

Al


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RE: White powdery stuff on ilex leaves?

I understood what you meant, the food has to break down into something the plant can absorb, makes sense!
Barb


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