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Please help name this old daff

Posted by chemocurl zone 5/6 S IN (My Page) on
Fri, May 4, 07 at 15:48

This is not a good pic, but it is the best I have.

I got these from an old house site...house had been gone for many years, so I expect they are 'old' heirloom variety.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

99 out of 100 of the blooms looked like this...mainly white, and then about 1 out of 100 looked like the link below.

TIA

Sue

Here is a link that might be useful: But not quite as vivid as these pictured


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Please help name this old daff

Hello sue, I'm not much for Daffs but I do drive the back roads looking for flowers on abandoned farmland. How many do you have? Since 1 of 100 is all yellow I'd guess that the previous owners planted mostly the white variety and added just a few yellows for contrast. But thats just a guess.
while deer hunting in early October 5 years ago I came upon an old house foundation so old trees were growing inside the former home. The place was wild with some kind of Rosebush and some purple Asters. So I pulled some up by hand and hauled them home. The Asters took very well and spread good and look great. The Rose is something I still can not find the name of. It grows a single main stem up to 6 feet straight up with branches like a tree. The stem doesn't really have thorns but has stiff "hairs" all over. The thing flowers profusely with 2" flat blooms of a fuscia color with a yellow center. I suspect it is a very old French Rose brought here hundreds of years ago to upper NY.
Finding wild growing flowers is fun but sometimes we never know what we get.


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RE: Please help name this old daff

How many do you have?
Hard to say. Maybe 300, more or less. When I got them they were quite small, having needed dug and divided for so long. They had lots of foliage and few blooms.
I brought them home and planted them all in a row. The bulbs grew bigger, and had more blooms each season for several years. Now they need divided, and have needed it for years. I think there were only a couple of blooms this season, so I really hope to get them divided this year for sure.

I just checked my Indiana Wildflower Field Guide for asters and see there are 27 in Indiana...most are natives, some are introduced.
Have you maybe tried posting a pic to the Name That Plant Forum?

Your rose sounds verrrrry interesting.
Have you maybe tried posting at the name the Rose Forum (just discovered it this AM...along with a post there to please read the FAQ b4 posting.)
I'm not much of a rose grower, but yours certainly does sound quite unique, thus 'special'.

Sue...still hoping someone will ID this sweet daff, as it is very fragrant also

Here is a link that might be useful: Name That Rose Forum


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RE: Please help name this old daff

  • Posted by kaky 7b SC (My Page) on
    Wed, May 9, 07 at 1:18

Sue, I also have a couple of these -- white (or is it pale yellow?) with orange fluff in the center. I'd love to know what they are. Mine smell fabulous, like hyacinths. They were at our 50-year-old home when we moved in. In fact, they were pretty much the only plant or flower on the place! I haven't seen them offered anywhere.


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RE: Please help name this old daff

What I have are white...with about 1 out or 100 or more being a pale yellow.

I have contacted someone with the Indiana Daffodil Society, and sent them a link to this post.

I'm hoping they, or someone they know, can help put a name to this wonderful old fragrant beauty.

I haven't seen it anywhere else either. Possibly they are quite rare...think?

Sue


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RE: Please help name this old daff

I don't know if you have every ordered from Old House Gardens. They are a great online web site for old heirloom bulbs. I have gotten both spring and fall bulbs from this place. I've heard the owner Scott speak at a flower show and he is so passionate about saving old heirloom varieties from extinction. I would send a photo to the email listed on the web site. See if they can help you out. There customer service is so friendly and helpful I am sure they will give you a fast reply. Give it a shot or look at the photos on the web site and see if any match...

Sue (also a Sue!)

Here is a link that might be useful: Old House Gardens Link...


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Thanks Sue!

I have looked at many, if not all of the daffs at that site, and didn't see anything close.

I will email them...What a great idea!

Sue...off to do that now


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Gee, I was just going to suggest the same thing. They know everything about old bulbs and are nice folks too. I bet they'll have an answer for you.


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RE: Please help name this old daff

I would say they are Butter and Eggs. My great-grandmother had only these and Early Louisiana growing in her yard. My Mom (born 1930), said her grandmother always called them Butter and Eggs. They are fragrant and I have several hundred of them myself. Over the years I've moved many from my great-grandmother's and they've multiplied here as well. The vast majority of ours are whitish with the orange, but a few are yellow with the orange.

Becky


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RE: Please help name this old daff

I've seen this daffodil for sale in garden catalogs, but I'm afraid I don't remember the name.


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Becky,
I described these (years ago) to an avid local/collector.

She told me they were Butter and Eggs. When I saw different pics of B&E on the net, I figured I had not made myself clear in describing them and the color.

Might it be that there are White B&E and yellow B&E, just like there are daffs named Cheerfulness, and others named White Cheerfulness.

Seems both the white and especially the yellow ones aren't very commonly found.

I'm still awaiting word from The Indiana Daffodil Society, and from Old House Gardens. Maybe they are stumped as well with a name for this beauty.

Sue

Here is a link that might be useful: Sir Winston Churchill-close but no cigar!


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RE: Please help name this old daff

WooHoo!

I received a reply back from Scott at old House Gardens.

Here is his reply:

Sue,

It's always dangerous trying to ID a flower from just a photo, but I think your daffodil is probably Orange Phoenix, aka Eggs and Bacon. It's a cousin of Butter and Eggs -- which is two shades of yellow -- but with creamy white petals and yellow-orange bits interspersed. It's tough and naturalizes well in zones 6-8. Another possibility might be Mary Copeland, and there are of course many others.

We've sold Orange Phoenix in the past but do not currently have it at our website because we don't have enough to offer it. Mary Copeland is there, though, so you could take a look at that. But I really think it's Orange Phoenix.

I tried to post this at Garden Web but I forgot my user name and ended up losing the message I had written. Feel free to post it there, though.

I hope this helps. Enjoy your treasure!

Yours, Scott
Scott Kunst, Owner & Head Gardener
Old House Gardens

Thinking back, my friend (the avid collecter) may have said
Eggs and Bacon (it has been years ago).

Now if I wasn't having phone line woes (on dial-up) I could check out pics of those listed in his email. Might anyone have pics of Orange Phoenix (aka Eggs and Bacon)?

I feel certain it is 'not' Mary Copeland, in looking at the pic at Old House Gardens.

Sue


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RE: Please help name this old daff

My great grand mother grew the cream and yellow ones and said they were called butter and eggs. She grew all kinds of flowers. I have the same cream and yellow butter and eggs. They look just like mine. I had'nt seen the all yellow one before but they are pretty.
vickie


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Try the DaffSeek web site (link below). I searched with Orange Phoenix in Flower Name and it came up with a few pictures. Some info too. I am glad Scott answered you. They are nice folks at Old House Gardens!

Sue

Here is a link that might be useful: Daffodil Search Engine


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Here is the latest of this on going saga.

I asked to send them (Old House Gardens) a few bulbs to hopefully ID come bloom time next season. They are no longer able to do this, but Scott suggested I overnight him a few blooms next spring.

Now the next hurdle is getting them divided, and grown big enough to have at least a few blooms next season.

I will update with any new info here, and for sure let you know what next spring brings as far as blooms and IDing.

Thank you everyone for your input here.

Sue


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Well, the saga continues. I did not get any blooms overnighted to them, as I wasn't even really sure which row they were in. I was however very pleased to have several blooms this season, as I had dug into the row at some time and shared some bulbs...thus thinning them a little in places.

Here are this seasons pics....not the best, but better than the one above.

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

And as I said above, it seems about 1 out of 100 or so blooms is a yellow one.
Photobucket

Photobucket

Anyone with clues this season maybe?
Mailing some blooms next season will be the next option I guess if no one has a name for it here.

Tia

Sue


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RE: Please help name this old daff

  • Posted by kaky 7b SC (My Page) on
    Wed, Apr 16, 08 at 2:46

Beautiful. ... I had several (I responded last year) but there seem to be fewer each year. This year I only had 2 bloom. I've kept an eye out for them online and in catalogues but have seen nothing.


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Could it be "White Lion"? I'm not sure of the date on that one, but it's been growing in my parents' yard for at least 35 years, so it's a possibility. There's also a double form of "Ice Follies" (I forget the name, but it starts with "Ice...", but that's probably more recent.


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RE: Please help name this old daff

I've had White lion and Ice King both, and the blooms on them are a lot bigger than these.

Thanks though...keep thinking....

Kaky, you need to get those dug, and divided, and shared if there are too many to replant. I'm sure you probably know some daff lovers.

Sue


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RE: Please help name this old daff

  • Posted by kaky 7b SC (My Page) on
    Thu, Apr 17, 08 at 14:23

Thanks for the advice, chemocurl ... I had just been thinking the same thing. ... I'm not really sure how many bulbs there are. ... There probably were only ever three or four at the most that have bloomed since I have lived in the house ... and they're mixed with a heavy little clump of tiny white bell flowers (too lazy to look up the name right now) and nestled between oak tree roots. Sooo ... not sure what's there.


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RE: Please help name this old daff

and they're mixed with a heavy little clump of tiny white bell flowers (too lazy to look up the name right now)

The link below are not bell, but are indeed the Flower from Hell...Ornithogalum Umbellatum. I hope that is not what you have...as it is a very invasive bulb...but I'll save that rant for another time/place.

Just dig the daffs and the bells, separate them and replant. It is likely the little bells may need it to. Maybe they are snowdrops?

I've had some clumps of daffs have as many as 25 or so blooms in them b4 the number of blooms start to decline. I think you will be very pleasantly surprised at just how many small ones there are. Dividing sometime this year will hopefully assure you will have a lot more blooms than 2 next season.

Sue

Here is a link that might be useful: Ornithogalum Umbellatum


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RE: Please help name this old daff

I have both of these, there's no name on the white one but the yellow is marked Dick Wilden. The pictures I've found on the web don't really look the same to me. I got these from Lowe's so the accuracy of the labeling is anybodys guess.

Jeanne


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RE: Please help name this old daff

  • Posted by kaky 7b SC (My Page) on
    Thu, Apr 17, 08 at 16:46

Yes, thank you, chemocurl, snow drops. ... I have read about the Ornithogalum Umbellatum ... and, yes, I believe I purchased and planted some before I knew better. ... Fortunately, only a couple have bloomed ... "Luckily" I think I got duds. ... You've inspired me. I'll dig up the old daffs, whatever they are, and replant. ...


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Hi Sue. I did a search and this thread came up. It was really interesting to read all this info.

Did you ever get a positive id?


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RE: Please help name this old daff

No I haven't. I hope to maybe overnight some buds/blooms to Old House Gardens next spring. I had a few more of them to bloom this year (only had one in 2007 I think) because I had been digging into the row, so a few weren't so crowded, and bloomed.

I also joined Daffnet, so I may be able to get someone there to help me as well.

If and when I get an ID, I'll surely post it here. I was surprised to see this thread responded to.

I have both of these, there's no name on the white one but the yellow is marked Dick Wilden.
My yellow one sure doesn't look like Dick in comparing it to the 4 pics of it found at Daffseek. Mine is not nearly as full as the pics of Dick.
Sue

Here is a link that might be useful: Daffseek Dick Wilden


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RE: Please help name this old daff

I would love to see that daff get named:-)
I would bet that Scott from Old House Gardens is right. I'm off to do some research on this (I have WAY too much time on my hands;-)


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love daffs

Please let me know if you want to trade for some of these daffs. I have many named daylilys. (my trade list is not updated). Just post here if your interested.


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RE: Please help name this old daff

irish, I was going to email you but you don't have an email link.

You can get that set up via the Member Pages link at the bottom of any page.

I don't think it is Orange Phoenix. HERE is OP at Daffseek. It looks like it is having a bad hair day.

Sue


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Hi Sue,

Your mystery daffy looks slightly like my mystery. I had been driving by these clumps of daffodils for years telling myself that I needed to dig them before they were bulldozed. I finally dug them a few years ago and it wasn't two weeks later when they started burying cable through the middle of them in preparation of widening the road. I call this one American Legion because it is the closest building to where I found them.

Photobucket

This is a difficult flower to photograph, but it gives you an idea of what it looks like.

Kathy - who is patiently waiting for the weather to cool enough to plant the hundreds of bulbs I have aquired.

PS to Maureen: The dormant wood rose cuttings you sent me a few years ago are now large lovely bushes. Thank you.


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RE: Please help name this old daff

I found an article by Mary Lou Gripshover.

She mentions that Orange Phoenix is also known as (deep breath) - Butter and Eggs, Poached Egg, Eggs and Bacon, Fried Eggs. Which is yellow and orange.

Then she mentioned there is one named Sulphur Phoenix aka Codlins and Cream which is white and orange.

I might have been reading too quickly - she said (I think) that these date back to the 1700s - which would account for their more dainty size and form.

By the by - there was a similar question posed on the Scotish Rock Garden Club's old forum - so the phoenixes and their lookalikes obviously moved around a lot.


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Wow, this is such an interesting thread.
Sue, my email address is:
Maureenpm00@hotmail.com

The pics of OP at Daffseek do not look so much like yours, but the pics I pulled up searches look exactly like yours.

Kathy - Hi, how are you??? I'm so glad the rose cuttings did well. If you want more, just let me know. by the way, your daff is beautiful too.


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Sue, perhaps you could send a couple of bulbs to Scott now. That would enable him to compare side by side to other Narcissus.
Just a thought.....


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Sue, perhaps you could send a couple of bulbs to Scott now.
I asked Scott that same thing back in 2006. He explained that it was not a possibility, as they get a lot of requests to do that. I can understand them not taking on the responsibility of growing someone's bulbs just to try and identify them. Maybe in 2009, I can send him some blooms and get an ID then.

Vertivert, I saw a lot of 'aka' names on some of the Phoenix varieties at DaffSeek. I'll post a list later. Thanks. I appreciate the interest in getting a name on this daff.

Another possibility of getting it named would be via the Daff Soc members next spring. I plan to attend 1,2, or 3 shows, and hopefully it will be in bloom at the time one of them is being held.

Sue


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Hi Sue- I just read this entire thread and thought I would resurect it for an update... :-) Did those beauties bloom for you yet?

-Frank


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RE: Please help name this old daff

The folks on daffnet are pretty good about IDing daffodils. I just got a likely name for one which I purchased which was mislabled.

Kathy

Here is a link that might be useful: daffnet


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Hi Sue- I just read this entire thread and thought I would resurect it for an update... :-) Did those beauties bloom for you yet?
Hi Frank,

No they haven't. Nothing here has bloomed on my property yet, but I do see some of the early Narcissus pseudonarcissus in bloom in town which are probably in microclimates.

The folks on daffnet are pretty good about IDing daffodils. I just got a likely name for one which I purchased which was mislabled.
Thanks Kathy, I joined Daffnet a while back, but haven't been there recently. All the members seem like such 'pros' compared to me, the beginner. Are you also paddlehikeva there too? I am chemocurl there, as I am everywhere on line. I may try posting there sometime later.

When it blooms this year, I will get some blooms to local grower Helen Trueblood. I feel certain she can identify it for me. If not I will try posting pics at Daffnet, and/or plan to send some budded blooms to someone (maybe Scott at Old House) for ID next year. Hopefully some will bloom this season. They have needed dividing for a long time, so the blooms have been few. I did however dig some out of the row last year so hopefully that gave 'some' bulbs more room to grow and bloom this year.

I must have moved my daff pics (and broken the links above)...sorry....sigh.

Here are a couple of old pics again.

NO ID #17-yellow version

NO ID #17

NO ID #17


Sue


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Paddlehikeva, your daffodil looks like my 'Texas' daffodil. Got those at Lowes a few years back. Here are some pics on Dave's Garden. Chemocurl, your daff is so pretty, wish I could Id it.

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Texas'


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RE: Whoo-Hoo!

Last Saturday I finally got an ID on the (white) historic daffodil. It was given a name by historic daffodil specialist Joe Hamm of PA.

Drumroll....................................... It is Orange Phoenix . It is a pre 1731 daffodil, and goes by several synonyms, Eggs and Bacon, and Fried Eggs being two of them.

Mystery solved finally.

Sue

Here is a link that might be useful: Orange Phoenix at Daffseek


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RE: Please help name this old daff

Yippeeeeeee!!!!! It is great knowing, isn't it.

I am hoping to get some id's for some of my unknowns at the WDS show on Saturday.

Kathy


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RE: Please help name this old daff

  • Posted by kaky 7b SC (My Page) on
    Sun, Apr 19, 09 at 3:26

(Sigh) I dug and replanted the bulbs that lived in the tight little clump between the roots of two very old Oak Trees. Some were snowbells. Some daffs. I couldn't tell which was what in the replanting. Some bells bloomed this spring. None of the "special" daffs. I know the advice here was good. But the result was disappointing. Next year, I hope to see some blooms.


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