I suppose it depends upon how they got them that way. If you treat them differently than normal, they can either get too much light or stretch for light if not getting enough. Some members of the narcissus family however are very short and dwarf to begin with. There are miniature daffodils. Regardless, bonsai technique involves the cultivation and pruning of roots and growing points to miniaturise a plant.

I have never bonsaied anything.

I saw some really wonderful examples of bonsai, however, at a garden show a couple of years ago. A tiny pomegranate tree and some junipers, grapevines, and peach trees were presented; they were quite lovely and all had little fruits on them except the peach, as it was March.

May I ask what this fascination for bonsai is? There are many books and classes on the subject. It explains the technique and also quite often how to get started in it.

There are recommended trees and shrubs for bonsai. These are usually maples, junipers, some fruit trees, etc. I do not, quite honestly, think you could bonsai a bulb; the growth habit is so different from trees. Chrysanthemums are bonsaied, and they are not trees; but the bulb thing is so different.

However, you might try the bonsai forum for more advice. I certainly do not know enough about bonsai and its techniques to tell you much.

I am quite knowledegable, however, on bulbs.

The cultivation environment is normal. They use tiny tool to peel and cut inside the bulb. As a result, the leaves and flower stalks are short and curved. It is actually a traditional thing.

Oh, do you consider Pleione bulbs?

They are beautiful plants and the arrangements are lovely (the middle one does nothing for me personally). The first one has a wonderful pot and the display table is very nice. Having said that, I do not think anyone, including the grower, would consider them bonsai even though the bonsai art form has been expanded well beyond the classic forms to include tropical and even pachycaul caudiciform trees which can be spectacular as bonsai. The technique for making these sounds fascinating and obviously the person that figured it out in the first place has an amazing knowledge of bulbs and their growth habits!! Thanks for the wonderful pictures :o) Dan

Dan: lol, I guess the middle one celebrates "littleness". The existence of the set cannot contract any further.

I agree with you. No, these should not be considered bonsai.

Well, not being an artist in the Oriental way of gardening, it would not occur to me to study that form of art. I do however, know a lot about bulbs, and have never heard of them being cored and reshaped; even though the flower is in a true bulb, already formed. The only coring I have ever heard of is in propagation for new bulbs. Much like cutting or scoring, it makes new bulbs ready for the garden in about 3-4 years. It does not however, dwarf them.

It seems that you two want to go to the bonsai forum and ask questions there. The bulb forum is not really the place to discuss the Oriental art of bonsai, as the experts or at least those who have a working interest in bonsai; are over there.

My interest, experience, and education in bulbs is in the Western way of gardening. Why not explain why this is NOT bonsai?

No. I think that they are a pseudobulb.

I've never heard of this with bulbs either, but I guess I do not think of it as Oriental vs. Western.....I think of it as if one culture can teach you something totally novel about bulbs and how to manipulate their growth then bring it on......We've all heard of slicing and dicing bulbs for propagation purposes, but I would have never thought you could "gut" one and make it behave this way.....obviously, the bulb plate is intact atleast partially or it would have been a goner, but what exactly they did is truly fascinating!!

Snasxs, can you direct us to the web site where we can read a bit about what they are doing?? I doubt I would do it to anything other than a really common bulb, but it might be fun to try and learn something new about bulb culture :o) Dan

Bonsai is not as popular in (although that is changing) nor did it originate in the west. There are a few people in the west who are devotees of it, but generally not. This is just fact, but the Dutch thought about the ways of propagating bulbs unlike any other people as well. Studying bulbs automatically brings you to different parts of the world because of their natural development in garden history. Coring does in fact, produce new bulbs as does "slicing and dicing", as you refer to it; but the methods produce different sizes and also different requirements in keeping them until they grow to fulfillment and are able to be kept in the garden.

By the way, it does not have to be "versus"; it can just be different.

I guess I only said "vs" because you said that you were in tune to the "Western" way of gardening.....What I hope I conveyed is that we can all learn new things from each other....you indicated you had not heard of this method of causing the leaves to twist and the flower stalk to be shortened......if this is something that is done in Oriental cultures then we can all learn from that.

Bonsai, or of course Penjing originated in China as you know and the Japanese further transformed the art form. The Chinese still follow much more of a clip-and-grow method and use less wiring as you likely also know. Both are stunning and the way they use small flowering plants (bulbs, orchids, etc.) as companions to highlight the bonsai is amazing.

I completely agree with everything you said except one.....it is not fact that bonsai is practiced by few people in the west.....some of the truly great bonsai artists today are in the west (although not as many as in Japan of course) and almost any decent size city in the U.S. has a baonsai society were people learn and share.

Obviosly, this got off-topic. As I said above, if anyone can provide a web site where they show you how to make the leaves twist like this I would love to try it on a few daffs or tulips and such......this could be a Dutch site (if they do this) or an Asian site if one is known.

Bulbs are a truly fascinating lot and my personal favorites (this month) are the South African Amaryllids....Boophane, Brunsvigia, Haemanthus, Scadoxus, Ledebouria, etc, etc..

Good growing all :o) Dan

I realise that there are organizations here in the west who have bonsai enthusiasts, and I said that. However compared to other ways of gardening, it is fact that it is not as popular. There are few devotees to it compared to the East. One does not see bonsai in every western home or garden.

It is a person's choice in how they want to garden. It has nothing to do with versus. Indeed, I know some people who are in a local bonsai club. And a former hort teacher is a member of it.

Like Orchids and African Violets, I have not much interest in it for myself.

Experts, you guys please - it does not matter whether this is a form of art or botany; bulb or bonsai; East or West. These are supposed to bring us peace and joy. Hopflower enjoys it because it is a daffodil. Dan appreciates it for it is shaped.

Now, I must clarify that, throughout history, bonsai is always for a small number of elites. It is not any more popular in the Orient. Bonsais take years to cultivate. They tend to be too expensive to be sold in Wal-Mart (at least for the high-quality ones).

Well, isn't that a relief! Since I do not shop at Wal-Mart on general principle, I am safe anyway.

All I am saying is that I know bonsai requires a certain cultivation discipline; and if that is satisfied then I suppose it would be considered one. But perhaps you should post this on the Bonsai Forum where some real experts could help you.

Hopflower, I think this is more of a bulb. I think I have expressed this clear in a previous post.

Don't you think this is a bulb anyways? lol.

Oh, BTW about WM. I was just like you. Then I switched to Wal-Mart super centers last year. Because it was the only store I knew in a new town. To my surprise, I find that I save about 30% compared to other stores.

I am certainly not saying you should follow suit. If you want to shop there, of course you should. I just don't like the way they treat their employees and feel that shopping there (giving them my money) empowers them to do more nasty things because they stay in business, and so on principle I do not want to support them. It is, I fear, a case of "I got mine so I don't care what happens to anyone else" is the way I feel when people shop there. I don't mind paying a bit more to people who are in business for themselves; like a local nurseryman, as opposed to a selfish giant like WalMart!

It is just the way I feel about it; purely a personal thing.

The second picture reminds me of something interesting I saw on a tomato forum. What the grower did was lie the plant on its side and rotate it as it grew. The plant, always growing up to the light, wrapped itself. But you say this is done by manipulating the bulb. Interesting. I never heard of this before. I think I like the third one best.

Now, this is just me. But this all seems like an awful lot of trouble for a plant that only blooms two weeks a year at best. I assume that once the bulb goes dormant (or dies?), it's all over. If I want to bonsai anything, I want it to last longer than that! Call it what you want....I think it amounts to no more than a (lovely, grant you) curiosity at best.

One person's work is another person's relaxation.
If I were to take up a craft like this, I would prefer it over bonsai because I don't want to be obligated to water something everyday for the rest of my life. One good vacation and all that work goes down the drain. Anyway, this to me falls under the art of floral arrangements, not bonsai.

Donna,

These bulbs are forced and water-cultivated (like paper whites). Each bulb has been farmed for three years. Most people discard the bulb after blooming. Some people try to plant it afterwards.

People like these partially because the blooms are highly fragrant. It is a wonderful seasonal floral arrangement at home, for example, during the holidays. Usually we only have two weeks break anyways. The process is supposed to bring some fun to the bulb-forcing and water-cultivating process.

I find this ancient (dated in 1932, gee) paper from the website of Hong Kong University http://sunzi1.lib.hku.hk/hkjo/view/27/2700197.pdf.

Thanks for the link. So these artists are considered Narcissus Carvers and the flower is called Crab's Claw Narcissus according to the chapter. And they do describe the bulb as being laid on its side as part of the process.