Marv

The closest I've found so far is a product at Lowes called 'Gardenscape Pine Bark Mulch'. It has to be screened though, and has a fair amount of sapwood in it. I'm getting about half fines and half larger bark after screening. It's a lot of work though for the amount I'm going to need so I'm still looking.

The local Agway dealer had a product similar to the Gardenscape product. I might pick up a bag to see if it's any better.

The local Fafard dealers claim they can't get the 'Aged Pine Bark' since it's not a retail item.

A local mulch company (Mr Mulch) has what looked to be an ideal product ($16 yard), but I found it's mostly made from ground pine roots.

Raybo

I'm in Dallas, TX so if anyone from my neck of the woods knows where to find it please let me know. I've been waiting to make Al's gritty mix for many months now. :/

Thank you!

Ashley

What's the UPC of the stuff that you're getting at Home Depot?
My home depot said they would order whatever if it were available in their system, but they are too stupid to find it so I said I'd try to figure it out.

Here is a photo of the barcode label.

Raybo

Wow. I hate to give advice on a product that I have never experimented with myself, but with that caution in mind, it is better than nothing (Potting Mix and Perlite only). Not sure the ratio of gypsum, but hopefully, the predominant ingredients are the bark fines. Let us know how it works out for you, and if you can post a close-up photo of a bit of it, that would help.

Raybo

It is a Timberline product. Under the specs, it clearly states that it isn't Energy Star Compliant - bummer, guess it won't qualify for a rebate! (That was a joke, people).

It is SKU# 363944

The description calls it "Fine pine tree bark"

To those in the know, will this suffice?

Thanks.

Al

Andrew

Al

I've found a garden center that says they have pine bark in right size for gritty mix, but not partially composted for the 5:1:1.

Have you thought about going to management and asking Walmart or Hd or Lowes to special order some for you.

They always do for their customers here..

I wish you success..

Mike:-)

Marv

Here's the Earthtainer mix process advised by Ray that I worked on the other day. It's a 3:2:1 mix of potting soil, pine bark fines and perlite. The pine bark chips range in size from a dime to a quarter.

From 032110

From 032110

I bought pine bark fines at a local nursery, I don't recall the brand. I made 5-1-1 and gritty mix. I instantly killed the first African violet I placed in the gritty. I decided it was because I hadn't sifted everything, so I sifted.

The next plant died.

Since then, I've tested at least 15 AVs varying in size from just removed from the propagating leaf to ones with at least 19 leaves, and I've not had much success. The plant starts out fine. It grows initially. Within about 3-4 weeks, it's stopped growing. By 4-5 weeks, the outer leaves are soft and floppy. By 5-6 weeks, the inner leaves are soft and floppy.

If I take them out before they die I see the same thing each time: dead roots. They are soft, brown and easily pull off. When I repot these plants into a 70/30 perlite/peat mix, they start to respond in about 3 weeks and by about 8-12 weeks they are back to normal. I can see root growth in about 3-5 weeks - nice, white roots.

I use a wick for drainage and to verify the soil mix is dry before I water, so I am not over watering. I'm not under watering because I check them daily and these are small plants with small root systems, so they rarely need water more than every other day. I've sifted the ingredients, used exactly what was recommended here, the bark is the size as shown in the pictures, I have added what I'm supposed to such as gypsum, etc.

At one point I thought I'd figured it out. I thought the pH was too low as at 5.5 (testing the water after letting the water sit in the mix for about 10 minutes). I added lime to move the pH about 6.3 and tried again. Unfortunately, I just took those plants out of the mix about 1-2 weeks ago. Same problem. (And to those to whom I've promised young plants, please know that these are now a month behind because they didn't grow at all for the last month and will now take a month to start growing again.)

I still wonder if it's a pH issue. The bark tests 3.8 pH or thereabouts. That seems awfully low to me. I'm clutching at straws, but if the bark was resting against the roots, could it be so acidic that it harms them?

I created a mix tonight of screened oil-dri, perlite, granite and Growrocks. I thought I'd try a barkless mix just to see if the bark is somehow implicated. I won't know for at least 4 weeks after I plant something in it, however, if it's made any difference.

I'm far from an expert on this, so I hope someone else comments, but I don't think Oil-Dri is suitable for plants. It is a baked clay product very similar if not identical to Kitty Litter, but is not baked at a high temperature like Turface. Oil-Dri and Kitty Litter are highly absorbent but break down into a gooey mass when they become saturated. Turface retains the shape of the individual particles.

I tried this, and the oil-dry just wasn't going to work.

Alot do use the Nappa Auto Parts brand floor dry. part # 8822.

JoJo

your pine bark fines could possibly be treated with a chemical or something.

Also you should wash your mix really well before using it. The granite grit im using seems to be pretty salty.

I'm curious, since I don't recall any of the other threads mentioning washing the gritty mix. Does everyone wash their gritty mix? I screen it but I haven't washed it.

To that point, I do have some other plants in a 5-1-1 with the same bark; they are all streptocarpus. So far, all are alive. They do not seem to be growing as quickly as I'd expect, but they are not dying as the African Violets do. So, whatever the problem is is not causing the same issues for a different species of plant.

I have a spider plant shoot that I've rooted (several, actually). Maybe I'll plant it in the mix and see what happens.

Larry

Since the first plant died, I've used varying combinations of the ingredients - from the 5-1-1 to the gritty as is and the gritty as a 5-4-3. It doesn't matter. The 5-1-1 has to be watered daily, but they still die.

The other day I made a 1-1-1-1 that has no bark. I'm just going to see what happens. If they grow and live, then the bark looks more like the culprit. If they die, it's probably not the bark.

In the gritty mix, I use a wick so I know if it's wet and the longest they stay wet is two days. I mean a peat based product keeps things wet for a week and they die in the 5-1-1 which dries out in a day, so I'm having a hard time thinking that would be the answer.

After 31 different conbination trials of Turface, Cactus Mix, Redwood Compost, Potting Mix, Bark Fines, Perlite, etc, for a SWC application (and this may be totally different than your needs) but for what it is worth, I have determined that a 3:2:1 ratio of Potting Mix, Bark Fines and Perlite work best for me.

This is a Cherokee Purple tomato plant that is green from top to bottom. Again, your specific plant and watering technique may be different from this, but I simply post this as a point of reference.

Raybo

Last night I was checking all my interior plants and realized I have a lovely hippeastrum in the exact same mix that is killing my African Violets. It's happy and growing well. I planted it at least 5 months ago and the roots are wonderful, so it's not at all affecting it, in fact it probably is responsible for how happy the plant is.

A month or so ago, I wanted to see if plants started in the gritty mix would respond differently than ones started in a peat/perlite mix. I have at least 4 or 5 leaves starting in the gritty mix (not the 5-1-1). I gently shook off some of the mix and beneath it are lovely, strong, white roots.

That adds to my suspicion that there is something in this mix that just isn't working for African Violets. I am not sure if it is that ones started in another mix never acclimate to the new mix before they decline too far to be saved, or if there is something about this mix that is problematic in general to the African Violets. And I don't know if it's just MY mix or the gritty mix in general.

If anyone else has AVs growing successfully in a gritty mix or any mix with bark, I'd love to hear what you're using.

In the meantime, I'm ordering some fir bark for orchids and some coco chips to see if I can replace the pine with these and make a difference. If they do not make a difference, I'll replace the Napa stuff and see what happens. I'm already testing a mix without any pine (but it may be too damp) to see what that does.

I think you found the key operative word - "decorative groundcover bark". That seems to be the common phrase used by different manufacturers.

Raybo

Thanks. Just the work-product of a lot of trial and error.

Email me during your construction project with any assembly questions.

Raybo

The water pH varies from 7.2 to 7.8 depending on the time of year. While it's hard to test the pH of the mix, I have watered the mix, let it soak for 10-15 minutes, and check the pH of the water (as recommended here as a way to at least get in the ballpark of what it is). I cannot remember the pH of the mix without lime, but it was low for AVs. Because it was too low (when I first started this effort), I decided to add lime instead of gypsum. With lime added, it tested 6.2 the last time I tested it. That should be fine for AVs. The peat/perlite mix I'm using tested 6.35.

Also, the hippeastrum is very happy in the same stuff, as are a few streptocarpus. If what I've read is correct, hippeastrum prefer a slightly acidic pH around 5.5-6.0. So, too high a pH is unlikely even if my test results somehow are.

I would love it if Al had some input, but he must not be reading this thread.

As this Cherokee Purple was planted for my Fall crop of the year, I was quite happy with its production - up until December 21 when the hard freeze killed it. This Spring / Summer first crop cycle, I have about 20 plants / varieties now growing in the 3:2:1 Combo Mix.

The other 14 tomato plants are growing in slight variants of the 3:2:1 Combo Mix, (3:3:2, and 2:2:1 ratios for example) to try to get a spread-spectrum of results to evaluate. I am also evaluating some of the ratios with a finer bark particle size called "Turf Topper", as an alternative to the Decorative Bark Groundcover product.

Raybo

They're 1 cu foot for 6.99.

Griffin Greenhouse
200 Mountain View Road
Morgantown, PA
610-286-0046

Looks like they have locations along the East Coast:
http://www.griffins.com/locations/index.asp

Also, I picked up some more Lowes Gardenscape Pine Mulch, but it's not at all composted this time (and still has lots of sapwood and big chunks). I wouldn't recommend it.

I may have to mow some mini-nugget pine bark that I found at Rona in Mississauga. My local Rona does not carry them. May be time to drive back out to Sauga.

Josh