As an experiment, I put a bag of pine mulch through a screen. I threw the large stuff on my paths, and mixed the fine stuff with peat and pearlite. It seems like a nice, fluffy, structural mix.

Could this work? From what I can read, the downside could be the use of N by the breaking down of the pine. Could I just make sure there was enough additional N for the plant?

Is there another problem I don't see?

Thank you for your help.

Kathleen

You can also do a search for NJ in this thread - I found several mentions of sources in NJ: Supplies by state/region: Al's Gritty Mix (Though nothing for Colorado where I live. :-( )

I haven't yet made any of the mix, still gathering materials, so obviously I don't have any expertise with this, but I would think that a "fluffy" result is not what you are looking for when you are making a gritty mix! I would think the pine mulch would hold too much water.

I am sure that someone with actual experience with making the mix - perhaps even Al! - will respond to your question.

Holly

Holly

Most of us are using 'hardware cloth' welded wire mesh screen to sift for the 5-1-1.

JoJo

Yes, I tried pinewood. I sifted it through hardware cloth and then mixed it with peat and pearlite. Fluffy may not be the right word - it has some structure, it is holding water but not too much, and it drains nicely.

I just can't spend anymore time and gas looking for the darned PBF.

If the sapwood is bad, howcome? Is it a PH thing, or a decomposition thing?

Baby toms are happy so far ( one week)

Thanks again.

Pine bark is a better choice because, it has properties that fight disease, it resists rot so it lasts longer, it has little to no carbon, so it doesn't steal nitrogen as it breaks down like wood does. I made over 500 gallons of the 5.1.1 this year. I buy mine by the truck load. Making that much would be expensive by the bag. Hope this helps. Filix.

I haven't checked at Walmart, but according to Walmart's web site, my local Walmarts don't sell ANY sort of mulch, just various Miracle-Gro bagged products. None of the big box stores in my area have pine bark mulch; they do sell pine bark nuggets, but those, of course, are way too big. In fact, none of the nurseries in the area at which I have checked sell pine bark mulch, either - it used to be available, but I haven't seen it in the last few years. Shredded cedar mulch seems to be the mulch of choice around here - there's plenty of that!

I haven't been able to find any sort of pine bark soil conditioner, either.

I guess we both just live in the wrong parts of the USA to make finding the supplies easy - or even possible! And the cost of shipping if ordering supplies on line would be prohibitive - I can't even contemplate doing so because I don't have the $$$ to spare.

I have read some posts where people say that the Repti-Bark can be used for both mixes, but this product is definitely not partially composted so I have my doubts that this is what Al meant should be used in his 5:1:1 mix. Here is a quote from a post Al made in 2009 in reference to the bark in this mix: I like bark best, and the best size for the 5:1:1 mix is sawdust to 1/4" pieces and partially composted, with most of the particles concentrated in the 1/16-3/16 size. I'm NOT suggesting you go out looking for bark that fits this description, but it will give you an idea of what works best.

Sigh.

Holly

I have never seen hemlock, cypress, spruce or fir bark sold as a mulch here and can no longer find pine bark mulch. There are various "forest product" mulches that I am not willing to try - most seem to be dyed, too. I really do need to check at John Deere Landscapes to see what they have as some people have had luck finding the pine bark fines there, at least in other parts of the country.

As for cedar bark, Al does not recommend it's use - here is one of his posts on this subject:

I haven't used cedar mulch to grow in, so I can't comment on that practice directly, but I can say that because the tannins, as well as terpenoid and phenolic compounds cedar is rich in are known to be allelopathic (inhibit growth) to many other plants, I have discounted the likelihood that it would be a suitable choice for me. This was posted in this thread: Shredded cedar Al's Mix

Holly

Holy, so far the best pine I've been able to find was at John Deere. It seems to have a fair amount of paper thin pieces, which i'm not real thrilled about, but all in all it's the best so far. Some sap wood, but not too bad. I get my son to help pick it out. lol! I much prefer fir bark but that's a little expensive, so I only use it for the house plants.

I just called about 10 other landscape places here yesterday with no luck, so I will be getting more from John Deere.
Here's a picture of it.

And this is it next to Home Depot brand. Home depot on the left.

JoJo

I guess the proof will be in the pudding. If the plants grow in improvised mix, then I will know. I will do some redundant planting of the culled seedlings, just to be safe.

Finally some clear weather today to do some mixing. Tried to mix last Sunday in the rain...

Kathleen

Decent Pine bark has been hard to find here too. And grit impossible.
JoJo - A trip to John Deere is in my future in hopes that the local branches here sell the pine bark mulch - even if it isn't ideal, it is certainly better than the non-existent stuff they have elsewhere here. And I can't believe that you can't find the grit in Arizona! No, I am not calling you a liar, just don't understand why feed stores wouldn't have Manna Pro chicken grit or Ulm's cherrystone #2 in stock; both of these have been listed as worthy alternatives to the Gran-I-Grit. I did a quick search and found quite a few feed stores listed in Tuscon, and at least one, Vaquero Feed, even sells chickens, so surely they have the various grits necessary for raising chickens? If they don't, maybe they can order it for you.

Holly

Thanks for looking into it some for me.

Vaquero only sells Manna Pro. I did get a bag awhile back just to try it. But it only comes in 5lb bags, and is almost $6! I looked into the manufacture and it only comes in that size.

As for gran-I-grit, it looks like it is not distributed to this side of the country, so I doubt anyone is going to order it, and I haven't looked real deep into the cherry stone yet.

I have a few options for substitutes, but I really wanted to use the grit for the weight of it.

Right now I'm looking into screens to sift gravel/grit from the river next to me.

JoJo

But, none of that helps you since you can't find it in Arizona. :-( Maybe contact New Ulm and see if they have a distributor in your state?? New Ulm Quarries

Holly