Sorry to hear that you are having difficulties with your 5-1-1 mix. Since I do not grow veggies in my 5-1-1 mix I'm not sure I can provide much help. Perhaps your weather was a big factor in the poor results you are experiencing.

I grow trees and woody plants so my mixes will be a bit different than yours. I have noted that once completely soaked with water and the mix completely saturated until water gushes out of the drainage holes, the basic 5-1-1 mix stays moist for quite some time. The top inch or two of the soil might seem dry to the touch, but lower down in the container the soil is usually quite damp but not soaking wet.

The only way to know how much moisture is in your container soil is to either use a bamboo skewer and leave in in your container as a sort of water "dipstick" or perhaps empty one of the containers and see if the soil is too dry, or two wet, near the bottom of the container.

During cool and cloudy spring or fall weather I only water about once each week. During summer I water maybe two times per week, depending on how hot it is and how much rain we receive. For the types of plants I grow, this seems like enough watering. Flowers and veggies probably need more water than trees and shrubs.

Wish I could offer better advice.

TYG

I suppose that I since use fabric containers I will have to water more frequently than if I used conventional containers.

How is a bamboo skewer used as a dipstick? I've never heard of this but want to learn more.

This post was edited by njitgrad on Tue, May 6, 14 at 8:44

Hi,

I can't grow veggies now due to lack of light in my new place, but back when I did grow them, I know that even in the ground with clay-loam soil, broccoli, lettuce and cabbage had a daily watering requirement.

I'm sorry to hear about your losses. I'm in the same Zone as you, though. I recommend that you try growing broccoli this fall. There's less heat, more rain, and no chance of getting cabbage worms in your crop.

This post was edited by woodlandpatio on Tue, May 6, 14 at 9:55

Fabric container should make the media dry out very much faster than using pots, but I have no direct experience therewith.

The dipstick skewer will be dark where there is sufficient moisture to wet it, and light where it is dry. When you pull out the skewer you can easily see whether the soil is wet enough two inches down, though how well that would work in a fabric bag that dries from all directions I don't know. (It also presupposes that there are roots throughout to use the moisture.)

Moisture meter is another option - and they're cheap: less then $5.

Observing the plants is yet another. Growing peppers I water when the peps start to wilt. That approach may not be optimal for all types of plant, though.

As noted by DMForcier in the above post, wooden skewers are a simple way to estimate how much water is being retained in your soil.

It's not possible (well not for me, but maybe for Al and other very experienced GW members) to know how wet the soil might be near the bottom of the container based on the top layer of soil. To find out, I simply use a wooden skewer and insert it into the soil, to the bottom of your container if possible, and leave it there for a few hours. If there is excess water the skewer will absorb some of the water.

When you remove the skewer, if its dry to the touch then your soil does not have excess water. If the skewer feels very wet, then you know the deeper levels of the container have significant amounts of moisture. you can then adjust your watering schedule as needed.

Hope that helps.

TYG

Are these the skewers that are used for BBQ kabobs? Or are they a special type skewer?

They are the types used for the barbecue. Make sure when you poke it through it goes all the way to the bottom. It is usually quite wet at the bottom. When I check for the dryness using the skewer I usually turn the 5-1-1 mix and have a look at the roots.

You'll usually get the hang of how much to water after about a month. I also water thoroughly so I don't water as frequently. It really is deceiving as the pine bark fines on top can be dry to the bone but underneath it can be a little more than damp

Thanks, now I just have to fine some really long skewers somewhere. My 20 gallon pots are about 24" tall, give or take, in my estimation.

You can grow tomatoes in 5-1-1 but I myself would not want to. In pots tomatoes tend to dry out super fast. So then you put them in a mix that dries out fast, if you like watering twice a day, go ahead! A 3-1-1 mix would be better, adding 1 part compost even better. Add beneficial bacteria and mycorrhizal fungi, and have a fertilizer schedule that makes sense for tomatoes. I have always liked a living mix, here in this forum most advocate for a dead mix and use synthetic ferts.

So what tomatoes are you growing this year?
I'm growing
Amana Orange
Amish Paste
Cherokee Purple
Costoluto Genovese
Mrs. Maxwell's Big Italian
Paul Robeson
Rosso Sicilian
Sungold
Sunsugar

In terms of bamboo skewers, the normal-sized skewers I am familiar with are about 12" long and sold in grocery stores in packages of 50 for about a dollar. Since my containers are all fairly small these skewers work well.

If your containers are larger you can purchase simple wooden dowels at any hardware or craft store very inexpensively. They should offer the same results as the skewers for larger containers.

If you have multiple containers and all have the exact same soil mix and are growing in the same conditions of sun/shade, then you probably only need to use skewers/dowels in a few of the containers.

TYG

I've been growing tomatoes in large fabric containers like yours since 2008 and using 5-1-1 in them since 2011. I've never had to water more than once every two days. If your fabric containers are in contact with the ground, like mine are, you can treat them a little more like mini raised beds and use a heavier, more water retentive mix. The last couple years I made my mix with 5 parts pine bark fines to one part finished compost to one part diatomaceous earth (NAPA Floor Dry). It has worked very well for me.

I just want to say that I don't use skewers or dowels to check the moisture in my mix. It is so lose, I can get my index finger 5 or 6 inches deep. If it feels dry there, I water. You have almost no possibility of over watering large fabric pots in contact with the ground. Those ways of determining moisture at the bottom of the pot are for solid containers with slow growing plants.

I, too, have never had to water a container of 5-1-1 twice in a day, even during the hottest weeks of our California Summer. I grow a tomato in a 15-gallon container every year, and I grow many peppers in 5-gallon containers.

Josh

I have tree seedlings & a few other things in fabric pots, in 5-1-1.

Although it has not been really hot yet (only a couple 80+ days), even with the 5-1-1 AND fabric pots, I'm only having to water a couple times a week.

However the plants have not rooted all that much into the pots yet, either.

It seems so far that it holds moisture about as well as Miracle Gro, but without the PWT issues.

It does dry out on the surface fast, but stays pretty moist 1/2" down and deeper for several days.

I think it's important to make sure your mix is thoroughly soaked when you first plant in it. You really can't rely on Mother Nature. Bark and peat can hold a lot of moisture and may be a bit hydrophobic in the beginning. Once you reach a critical mass, you shouldn't have a problem keeping the mix moist like a wrung out sponge. Since your risk of creating a peat pudding or a perched water table is very low, you shouldn't be stingy with water.

Ohiofem, that is a great point. Thanks for bringing it up.

This is one problem new pine bark users sometimes experience, the fact that uncomposted pine bark (and other types of bark) can be hydrophobic at first. A great way to prevent this is, as Ohiofem noted, is to wet the bark via soaking before mixing your soil. This will break the hydrophobic tendency of the bark and allow water to easily penetrate the mix.

I agree that once the 5-1-1 soil is uniformly mixed and moistened I've had no problems keeping the 5-1-1 mix wet. Generally even during the hottest weather I water no more than 2 times each week. of course, as mentioned earlier, this depends on where you live, how hot it is, how much rain you receive, what types of plants you are growing, how large a container you use, sunlight and shade, etc.

TYG