Return to the Container Gardening Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
All Natural vs Synthetic Comparison

Posted by emgardener (My Page) on
Thu, May 5, 11 at 18:18

This year I'm comparing an all natural container approach with the synthetic approach for growing peppers and eggplants.

My motivation is just curiosity and to see for myself the differences.

Here's the setup:

Using 6 18-gallon totes from Home Depot.

Three Different soil mixes being tried:

1. Synthetic soil mix is 1/2 composted bark fines, 1/2 turface. Planting 1 pepper tote & 1 eggplant tote in this mix.

2. Newly collected pine needle composted mulch. I collected this from under a large, long needled pine tree. It has a bouncy, peat-like feel to it. It took 12 square feet of surface area to collect enough for 1 tote.
Planting 1 pepper tote with this mix.

3. Rejuvenated, one year old leaf mulch mix. Last year I planted several totes in the new leaf mulch mix. After 1 year it had collapsed to about 2/3rds the volume, into a fine compost. I mixed 1/2 of this compost with 1/2 dried (uncomposted) redwood pine leaves.
In this mix I planted 3 totes: 1 pepper, 1 eggplant, 1 basil.

Each pepper tote has 1 each of green, golden, & red variety peppers.
The eggplants are all Ichaban Japanese variety.

The fertilization regimes are:

Synthetic: added ~1 cup lime to each synthetic tote, and am fertilizing with Foliage Pro.

All Natural: added one #10 can full of wood ashes to the natural mixes. Am fertilizing with all natural human liquid fertilizer (HLF or diluted urine).

I just see how green the plant leaves are to judge how much or how often to fertilize.

Here's a picture of a synthetic tote:
Photobucket


Here's a picture of a natural tote:
Photobucket

Totes ready for planting:
Photobucket

Here they are all planted:
Photobucket
Totes contain: Back left to right: peppers in rejuvenated mix, eggplant in bark/turface, peppers in new leaf mulch.
Front left to right: Peppers in bark/turface, eggplant in rejuvenated mix, basil in rejuvenated mix.

This was all planted about a week ago.

The only difference observed so far is that the peppers are showing dramatically different transplant shock reaction. New leaf mulch mix peppers have no wilting, some wilting in the rejuvenated mix, lots of wilting in the bark/turface mix. I posting pictures in another thread on this.
The basil wilted a lot also.
The eggplants show similar shock wilting.

This will be interesting for me.
Naturally I am hoping the all natural approach does ok.
If it does 80% as well as the synthetic approach, then I will use it in future years.

I plan to weigh the harvest from each tote and compare.


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: All Natural vs Synthetic Comparison

emgardener,

Thanks for taking the time in this experiment. There still seams to be a lot of people that don't believe an all organic approach will work in containers. I always used organics in containers with great results.

Ron

Boysenberry in a 18-Gal
Photobucket

Triplecrown Blackberry in a 18-Gal
Photobucket


 o
RE: All Natural vs Synthetic Comparison

I liked your last experiment, though you knew it didn't employ a "rigorous" scientific approach.

I still find these interesting as I would consider doing the same just for fun.

Good luck and thanks for sharing!


 o
RE: All Natural vs Synthetic Comparison

Prestons,

Very healthy looking Boysenberry you have there. What kind of yield are you getting from a 18 gal container?


 o
RE: All Natural vs Synthetic Comparison

I look forward to the results, however, what you're calling a "synthetic" mix, has pine bark in it, which is organic. I consider a synthetic mix to be one with no organic ingredients at all, one which contains things like turface, grit, perlite, sand, or other things that don't break down over time. Fully synthetic mixes will literally never break down and lose their structure, where mixes conaining any kind of organic material will eventually break down. For your second mix, you are growing in 100% pine needles?? That's interesting, as I would think there's not enough support for roots, or enough water holding capacity. I'm interested to hear the results. Experimenting is a good thing, and I commend you for taking this on.

Joe


 o
RE: All Natural vs Synthetic Comparison

Ron,

The Boysenberry looks quite impressive. How old is it and what do you use for fertilizer?

Joe,

The mix is using old composted pine needles (or new pine needles mixed with compost), so there is some support. Watering does need to be done every day when hot. An automatic drip system will be added soon.

Last year I did this with good results with peppers and basil. They outdid the SWC system I had been using for over 10 years, mostly because of the better drainage I believe. So this year I wanted to compare 2 systems that have similar drainage.

Yes bark isn't synthetic, but I wanted a one word description, so couldn't be too precise.

Cheers


 o
RE: All Natural vs Synthetic Comparison

Thanks for posting your experiments here! I'm wanting to grow eggplant and peppers in containers too and this gives me a good model to start.

I noticed that you double-stacked your pots, what is the purpose behind that? (I apologize if there's an obvious answer to that, I'm a complete newb to proper container gardening)


 o
RE: All Natural vs Synthetic Comparison

Astroknot,

The double stacking is just for drainage. The setup is on a wooden deck, so I divert the runoff to the ground.
If the setup were on the ground or a stone/brick/concrete patio area I wouldn't care and certainly wouldn't have gone to all the trouble to divert the runoff.

Once my drip system is installed, I'll probably post pictures about it.

Eggplants and peppers are great choices for containers. They seem to like containers better than the ground and they produce a lot.


 o
RE: All Natural vs Synthetic Comparison

Oh yes, now I notice the little pipes you've got running from the containers. Great idea! I'd love to see pictures of your system once it has been installed.


 o
RE: All Natural vs Synthetic Comparison

I'm curious to see what happens, too.

I'd think that fertilizing only with human urine would cause problems. Isn't it high in salts, even diluted? And does it have all the nutrients when wood ashes are added? If so, that's pretty cool. Too bad my son is too old to convince him to pee in the garden.... :-)


 o
RE: All Natural vs Synthetic Comparison

Great pictures!

How old is that urine? What doasge do you use?
I am wondering if your urine and the composition of it, basically what you pee out with the kinds of foods and or meds you take has any bearing on what someone else urinates?

Different fertilizers, I suppose made of of different urine, and the different nutrients available in each ones own urine can have a huge baring on what, how another persons plants react to another persons urine, no?

I am just thinking that maybe what works for you, or not, may work differently or give a different outcome for someone else?

I am sorry, just musing.

Looks like your watering system will do you a fine job. I wish I could have the time to figure something out.

Are those containers large enough for a tomato plant?

Mike


 o
RE: All Natural vs Synthetic Comparison

I totally missed the pee fertilizer part. I am skeptical, mainly because pee kills things, and contains all the toxins your body flushes out. I'd have to say that draining the weasel in your "pots" couldn't be the best thing......

Joe


 o
RE: All Natural vs Synthetic Comparison

nullzero,
I can only estimate the yield I will get. Last year I lived in an area where we didn't get more than 4.5 hours of sun which didn't produce much at all. This year we are in a new location and get 8+ hours and what a difference. The canes keep producing new flowers and is doing very well. As for the berry estimate on the plant, a 450 count with no sign of slowing down.

emgardener,

The boysenberry is 3 years old. I fertilize with liquid fish and seaweed, Grow More vegetable fertilizer and compost.

Ron


 o
RE: All Natural vs Synthetic Comparison

Ron,
So you use liquid organic fertilizer. That's what I wondered. I had poor experience with just solid organic fertilizer in the past, although it was in an overly wet SWC.


"How old is that urine? What doasge do you use?"

The age varies from just created to several weeks. Doesn't seem to matter to much. After about 2 days the pH goes above 8, so it is alkaline. Which might be an advantage when using leaves.

I dilute it about 1:5 HLF:water. Don't keep track of dosage. Whenever the leaves look a little yellowish, I add some. Same with the Foliage Pro. Also if the weather is cold, I don't add too much HLF, even if the leaves are yellowish, since when it heats up, much more of the nitrogen becomes available quickly.

It does take a lot of HLF to hurt a plant. As an experiment I kept overdosing a small 1.5' tomato plant in the ground to see what it could take. It took 2 cups of undiluted HLF poured right onto the stem base to kill it.

The tubs are 18 gallons, big enough for a tomato.

"Isn't it high in salts, even diluted?"

It has much less salt in it then Foliage Pro. I spilled a little of each in separate trays and let them evaporate, just to compare the salt concentration.

"I am skeptical, mainly because pee kills things, and contains all the toxins your body flushes out. I'd have to say that draining in your "pots" couldn't be the best thing.."

I had a friend who drained directly in his flower pots. Whenever the neighborhood garden club came over they always exclaimed on how great his flowers were & asked for his secret. He delightfully revealed his secret to their dismay.
My wife now asks me to do the same.

There's a lot of university research that's been done in Sweden on this subject, that was discussed over a year ago here. You can search on urine and my name to find it. They have villages in Sweden where the city collects the urine and gives it to the local farmers.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Container Gardening Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here