I am now seeing some small (half inch?) white worms in the freshly potted containers now, and am wondering if they could be harmful or if they are just some sort of composter at work. The worms seem to want to dive down into the soil when I appear and am going to water. I suppose these could possibly be fly maggots, although I have never seen a shy maggot before.

All in all, they are kind of gross, but at least aren't profuse (at least I don't think so). I am hoping they are harmless as I don't want to throw away the expensive potting soil, and I surely don't need the extra work. I also hope in time they "go away".

Anyone else had this happen, or know what it is?

Sandy

I spose a broader question would be do you really want things eating your potting mix? I know I sure wouldn't. I value the aeration and great drainage of a good potting mix and critters eating it up isn't going to do a lot to maintain that ;)

Is it safe to asume that they will eventually disappear, and not cause harm to my roses? So far they still look healthy. If they are eating the dead organic matter, and not my live plants, they should theoretically leave behind beneficial castings as well as other beneficial micro organisms. These roses are in pots so that I can start a new garden when I sell my existing home and am able to purchase some land in the country. Therefore, growing roses in containers is new to me.

Sandy

Using soil amendments as a N source (manure, blood meal, alfalfa, etc) often invites increased populations of these creatures, along with increased likelihood of flora like algae and various worts.

Personally, I view any type of worms or larvae in container soils as an undesirable condition because of the negative effect they have on the relationship between water retention and aeration.

Al

If the general opinion is that the roses will be fine, I can live with things running their course. I just won't make the same mistake again.

Sandy

Tips: Add a wick to the container to help you remove excess water. Water either at the first signs of wilt, or when the soil feels dry at the drain hole; later, when the plantings are mature, water when the soil is dry at the drain hole. If you have no aversion to soluble fertilizers like Foliage-Pro or MG, switch to a soluble fertilizer. It will help slow the progression of soil collapse and may help eliminate or partially eliminate the 'worm' issue.

Al

One thing I will say is that Florida is a totally different animal compared to most states when it comes to container plants. We have intense sunshine combined with high temperatures in the summer. Potted plants absolutely need watering once a day at the minimum, and if we don't get a thunderstorm, will need watering a second time. Commercial ppotting soils are as dry as dust here in half a day. Most people in the south put compost in the mix in order to retain some moisture....otherwise we would have to water three or four times a day from May through November if we get a day without any rain. Clay pots work well for me because they do not get as hot as plastic pots, and they also breathe, which helps if we get a lot of summer rain. I haven't grown roses to a very large extent in pots before, but I have grown cooking herbs in containers for the past few years. It's actually a relief during the winter when we only need to water containers three times a week.

I can soak a potted rose with water and 4 hours later when I pop the plant out to re-pot, the roots are totally dry.

I do use water soluble fertilizers, mostly organic based ones, but I have also used Miracle Gro and Peters. I think plants in containers need the extra boost.

I'll keep a close eye on the soil and add more if needed. The rate the roses are growing, I will need to re-pot by fall anyway. I have a call in to Our Vital Earth, which is where I purchased my vermicomposting system, and also all the bagged manure/casting material I used. When they get back to me I'll ask what they think about the worms, and post what they say. If they're not harmful, I'll let them be for now. If harmful, I'll find out what to do. I'm thinking if they were harmful I would have seen a decline in the plants by now. They are icky though!

Sandy

In response to what you posted above (the rapid drying out of containers in your climate) I would like to offer a suggestion.

As you noted in containers your plants appear to benefit from the synthetic, soluble ferts. There is a reason for that. The organics you are using that mix readily with water are usually not soluble. They appear to be, but they merely have small (to the eye) particles that suspend in water, but aren't really soluble and aren't readily available to plants without biological processing. That's why the MG and Peters appear to 'give a boost'. In other words, if your growing philosophy allows it, I think your plants will be much happier if you skip the organics entirely (in containers) and use water soluble synthetic ferts.

On the issue of containers drying out rapidly I am actually smiling. I am smiling because organic and peat based mixes do tend to dry too much in hot weather. As they do so they become hydrophobic and do not easily absorb water again. Much of the irrigation water runs out the pot, but if you dig down in the mix you will find it quite dry. I am smiling because what you relate reminds me of my own fears years ago. As I read Al and other sources of information tell me that getting away from organic matter/peat in containers would lead to easier success I feared how rapidly the coarse mixes would dry out. In summer I was watering daily (peat based mixes) and my thinking was 'Yeah, right, Al. Like I am going to switch to a less water retentive mix and have to stand there 24x7 with a watering can, give me a freakin break, dude!'

That's the part that makes me smile. I have since switched to much more coarse mixes, some of which have zero organic component. No compost, no soil, no peat, no coir just inorganic stuff similar to tiny rocks.

You wouldn't believe how much water mixes like this hold. I actually experiment with ways to make them retain water less long. Granted I am in Wisconsin and my climate, other than in the 'dog days' of summer, is not comparable to yours in Florida.

Still, the advantages to the plants being in a fast draining, well aerated planting mix can't be beat. You mentioned that you potted up your roses, but if you use a fast draining mix you don't need to. You can start them in their final container size with no fear of overwatering due to the fast draining nature of your potting mix. The added volume of mix means it holds more water than a smaller container would be able to regardless of what was in the mix.

In other words, forget about potting up. That's for people using mixes that hold too much water for optimal plant growth to worry about. Use a coarse, gritty mix and put young plants right into a large container. This removes the necessity of potting up AND due to greater mix volume provides ample water to last them.

I said all that, just so I could say I hope you weigh carefully what he said. It's very good advice. ;o)

Al

I appreciate all the advice here. I honestly have no issues or problems with the way I blend my soil mix for my plants. Their health has assured me of that. I don't have a situation with the soil drying to the point that it is running down the sides without actually soaking the roots of the plant first, because of the fact that I do use some compost mixed in. Every climate has it's own unique things to deal with, and as I said, Florida is a totally different environment from anywhere else. In the summer we can have scorching dry heat, or we can get afternoons of torrential rains for days. Summer is our rainy season, so the mix has to be fairly fast draining, but not too much, and I use clay pots to further let the plant roots breathe. Otherwise fungus sets in. It really cannot be compared to anyone living further north than here. I used to live in Upstate N.Y and gardened there also. Like comparing apples and oranges. It could get very hot up there too, but it didn't last. Sometimes 60 degree days would follow 90 degree days. Wisconsin is a beautiful state, and we had gone to the Oshkosh fly-in in July for several years in a row. Sometimes I would need a down jacket, especially at night, and other years it would be 104 for 3 days in a row. Here we are hot every day this time of year with very little temperature fluctuation. (Don't believe me, come down in August some time. It can be downright miserable). However, both the north and the south are fun places to garden.

I also have used soluble non organic fertilizers, such as Miracle Gro, but only once in a blue moon. I primarily use things like Mills Liquid Feed or fish emulsion, and then only once in a while. I can't be bothered with it in the heat of summer here. We've been in the high 90's since May. I usually just put Mills Magic Mix or Purely Organic sprinkled in the container periodically. With our heat and humidity, very slow release organic mixes work the best. Other fertilizers can release nutrients too quickly in our heat and harm the plant. Even with something like Osmocote, the rule of thumb here is that if the package says it lasts 4 months, it will last only 2 here.

And I have to say, with roses, they have to gradually be potted up a size. If you put them in too large a pot to begin with they don't like it and usually die. Doesn't matter what the soil mix is. Other plants aren't as fussy about things, as I've put dinky herb plants in large pots with no problems.

tn veggie gardener, that's awesome you have an earthworm in your cactus. It means the environment for your plant is a good one.

justaguy2 and Al thanks so much. Maybe we'll get a chance to meet someday at some plant function. It would be fun to compare notes. I'm actually keeping your advice in mind, as my husband and I will most likely work towards being able to split our time between the north and south in the future. I truly feel that what you have discovered works so well for you, would be how I would have to approach things "up there".

Likewise, if you ever head south, I have loads of advice for you too.

Sandy

It wouldn't even be 10% of mix.

And I also understand that alfalfa is particularly recommended by some rosarians as it contains a chemical supposedly beneficial to roses so I can see why you included it.

The larvae wouldn't bother me one bit even though they look yukky. It wouldn't be a permanent situation anyway once the soldier flies take off. You can also mulch the top.

The crux of the matter is the belief that since you are not planting in a predominately bark based (or gritty) ) mix you will have poor or second rate results, period.

Though I understand that you do not want to redo what you have already done I think it would be interesting (and not very expensive) to mix up a small batch of a well draining mix and try it out on just 2 or 3 roses--for experimental purposes maybe a small bag of cactus or orchid mix with some coarse sand or Napa floor dry would do and then compare the two mixes. You would have to use MG fertilizer or something similar (dyna gro 9-3-6)as proponents of such a mix do not have good results with organic fertilizers.

Though I don't grow roses in containers I can imagine they would appreciate a well draining and aerated mix. Here is an article where they add a huge amount of compost and manure. But I frequently find articles may or may not have good advice. (certainly don't add the drainage in the bottom as recommended but that recommendation will not go away any time soon)

I just think experimenting leads to better methods and results over time as you either confirm or dispel firmly held cultural practices. I just wouldn't do 60 containers with one type of mix as you have nothing to evaluate your 'good' results against. Regardless, good luck with all your roses.

[Jag, while I appreciate what you are saying about eliminating the 'potting -up' step I wouldn't really like a small plant in a big pot from a purely aesthetic point of view. Yes it will grow eventually but you want it to fit proportionally to the pot.]

Al

[Jag, while I appreciate what you are saying about eliminating the 'potting -up' step I wouldn't really like a small plant in a big pot from a purely aesthetic point of view. Yes it will grow eventually but you want it to fit proportionally to the pot.]

Agreed, aesthetically it may not be pleasing.

However, hearing that roses don't tolerate large pots when small regardless of the mix is interesting to me as I am growing roses this year for the very first time. I have a #1 rose in a 20" pot. It came potted and was pretty well rooted, but was in a 1 gal pot. So, it basically went from a 1 gal pot where it wasn't root bound to a 15-20 gallon pot. I guess time will tell how it does, but it's already blooming again and putting out new growth in spite of cruddy/cold weather in Wisconsin this year. It's in 75% bark, 25% turface.

Roses seem to be one of those plants that many regard as 'mystical' and requiring different care than most plants.

We shall see. My primary interest in growing a couple this year was to see (I doubt they are any different than any other plant). I have read so much info on roses that is contradictory and found so many who say they require special techniques that I figured I would just put it in a pot large enough for it full size and feed it Foliage Pro 9-3-6 and see how it goes.

I agree that if you are going to add all sorts of dense additives (in reasonable and small amounts) it is better to have a big container. Plus maybe increase the good drainage components.

Under the mulch there are now tons of maggots rooting about in my zucchini pot. So far the cucumber pot is clean but still attracting flies and I'm afraid it's only a matter of time before they get their eggs in there, if they haven't already. Is it the general consensus that the maggots themselves won't hurt the plant, but will affect the aeration maybe harming the plant in the long run?

I've put so much work into the plants (see link below for some photos). I could probably pull and re-pot the zucchini, but the cucumber vines are well established and attached to my balcony railing system already! I would really appreciate some advice.

thanks,
Ayma

p.s. I am in new york, where it has rained pretty much every day this June.

There are soil drenches that will effectively get rid of them, but I see you're employing organic methods, so I don't have any 'good' suggestions in that regard. Can you remove/replace the soil that contains the bone meal & get rid of the mulch so the top few inches of soil can eventually dry out?

Al