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macmex

Corn for meal and grits

Macmex
16 years ago

May you all enjoy a good year 2008! I greeted the new year the way I love most when the alarm went off in the morning!

Been meaning to post this for weeks now. But it is hard to make time to write. IÂd like to recommend, to those who have the space, that they try growing an open pollinated corn other than sweet corn. We have been growing Mesquakie Indian Corn, purchased from Sandhill Preservation Center, for two seasons now. We are thrilled with it. So donÂt be surprised if I mention it frequently. But this is not to say that this is the only variety worth growing.

There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of varieties out there, many in need of preservation and more than not are quite good. There are corns adapted to different latitudes, soils and climates. Most, if I understand correctly will behave very differently from one area to another. We once grew Hopi Blue when living down in Hidalgo, Mexico. The stalks grew to about 3 ½ tall and produced fairly well. That same year I head that those who grew it in the Northern tier of the USA had very TALL stalks! When grown in its native Hopi environment Hopi Blue is not a tall plant, but it is drought tolerant and able to produce under hot dry conditions.

While living in Mexico we were not able to find sweet corn and the locals all roasted green ears of their native corns, which were either flour or dent corns (not sweet). It didnÂt take us long to adapt to this. Soon we were enjoying corn on the cob with them, even though it was not sweet. Also, after some years of living in this environment, we learned to toast and grind these corns to make a wonderful bona fide corn meal and good grits. Before learning to do this we would actually bring cornmeal and grits down into the country, rationing them, to make them last as long as possible! So, once we learned to produce our own, from "scratch" we felt like we were living high. We found that home ground cornmeal, particularly, was superior to the stuff we had been purchasing in the store.

Upon return to the USA we wanted to grow corn, and looked for something we could reproduce, without having to purchase seed every year. Our family was of the mind that sweetness didnÂt matter. It was okay, but it didnÂt really matter. We all longed for our home ground cornmeal and grits. Plus, our experience was that the sweet varieties generally have weak stalks, unsuitable for bean supports. While living in NJ for some years we purchased Nothstine Dent, a variety renowned for its sweet cornmeal. It did indeed make a wonderful cornmeal. But its stalks were hardly strong and lodged easily.

In 2005 we moved to Oklahoma, where there is a lot more wind than on the Eastern seaboard. I decided to ask Glenn and Linda Drowns (Sandhill Preservation Center) for a recommendation. My criteria were

1) Sweetness doesnÂt matter

2) Suitable for making grits and cornmeal

3) Resistant to smut

They responded with three recommendations:

1. Mesquakie Indian

2. Glenn Beasly

3. Blue Clarage

I chose Mesquakie Indian because it was the most colorful of the three.

Here is a link to a photo of the beautiful colors of this seed. I tried to post the picture but couldnÂt get it to display.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m21/kg8da/garden/Mesquakie_grains_small.jpg

2007 was our second year to grow this corn. We absolutely love it. It meets all the above criteria with the additional advantage of outgrowing and shading Bermuda grass. We can grow corn in the least prepared areas of the garden, which weÂre still trying to "tame." The corn grows great. It really sets the weeds back for the next season, and it produces like crazy. We have a little hand grinder and, every other week or so, I run out to the shed and grind up some more cornmeal. Last year we probably grew about 700 square feet of this corn. In this coming season I hope to double that.

Mesquakie Indian Corn stalks can reach to 12Â when crowded. But most are about 7-9Â in height. They are very sturdy with an excellent root system. In 2006 our second planting was heavy with green ears when we received 4" or rain in an hour and a 10 minute micro burst of 70 mph wind. Except for two or three, the plants did not fall down, they tilted, but continued to mature their ears! Its dent kernels are quite small compared to most other corns. This variety is actually a mix of colors. Most plants produce either yellow ears with blue and purple kernels mixed in, or red ears with varying shades of red and purple. When I examine a sample of seed, closely, I also see kernels with shades of brown. Most of the yellow ears are long and slender. Most of the red ears are shorter and thicker. Any of the ears, when in milk stage, make tasty roasting ears.

If you really like cornmeal and/or grits, and if you have some space you might consider growing an open pollinated corn. Perhaps you live in a region in which someone has maintained seed from their forefathers, or you might peruse some of the excellent seed catalogs listings. Corn, as a grain, is an entirely different, yet gratifying crop than vegetables.

George

Tahlequah, OK

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m21/kg8da/garden/Mesquakie_Harvest07small-1.jpg

Comments (43)

  • gonefishin
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That is very interesting George. Lets see if I can get your picture to display.
    {{gwi:8938}}

    Like you, sweetness is not a must with me. Most boys grow up loving their mother's cooking and my favorite is still the old yellow dent field corn. To me it seems to be a full bodied corn with a great taste that satisfies you. Back many years ago, when things were lean, we took both yellow and white corn in to a mill to have it ground to have some corn meal to use and also made hominy out of both pretty often. That was back when we made it in one of those old cast iron wash pots on a wood fire outside and used lye in the process. None of today's products taste as good to me as I remember them tasting.
    Happy new year to all!!
    Bill P.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I forgot to mention that our "grits" really aren't bona fide grits. We found that if we toast the corn and grind it coarse, like grits, that we can use it just like grits. We hardly notice the difference.

    Bill, isn't it funny how when times are lean, sometimes, we actually eat better? Sometime when we are trying to make things stretch we work on our food a bit more and end up with cheap meals that are... oh so good!

    Home made corn bread made from home grown cornmeal is one of those "finer things of life!"

    George

  • fliptx
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    George, I'm curious as to what the multi-colored corn looks like once it's ground to a meal. Can you still see the invididual colors or do they sort of blend together?

    I'd love to have enough room to grow my own corn for milling. I buy the whole-grain cornmeal from the store which I like much more than the bland degerminated stuff, but I imagine the home-ground is even better.

  • peanuttree
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    remember that corn smut is edible - the mexicans call it "huitlacoche" and it's said to taste like mushrooms. A disease that you can eat seems like much less of a problem, since you can eat it.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, the meal isn't straight yellow. It's sort of rosy colored yellow. One can't tell all the colors that went into it once it's been ground. Flip, I certainly understand your situation. We've been there before.

    Peanuttree, we've had huitlacoche many times. Still, in NJ, with the Nothstine Dent, we got so much of it that it seriously cut into an already small harvest. I won't be so rash as to blame it all on the variety of corn, though. We had an acidity problem in the soil, which I understand exacerbates the probelm.

    Many gardeners tend not to know, however, that if you want to grow beans (real cornfield beans) on corn, sweet corn will generally not do. For one, with the sweet genes there also come genes for weaker, more spindly stalks. And, once you pick that ear of corn, in the milk stage, the stalk begins to break down. So, if one wants to grow something on their corn besides, perhaps, half runner beans, a non sweet variety is to be recommended.

    George

  • cambse
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    George,
    Thank you for the info. I found the subject very interesting. Perhaps, in my new place, I will have enough room to grow a dent corn. I am very eager to try one now.

    Carole

  • pnbrown
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't like sweet-corn at all, so I'd love to find a flour corn well-adapted for my conditions. Know of any that are especially resistant to skunks and racoons?

    I live off of Cape Cod, and the irony is that corn does poorly here where the english colonists encountered it for the first or nearly first time. I'd quite like to know just what variety the amerindians were growing here, presuming it exists, which is probably unlikely. Of course so much was different then, I suspect. Lower immediate densities of varmints, lower densities of insect pests, much richer native soils, etc.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I in your area, if I remember correctly, flint corns were the most common. Just looking in the Seed Savers Exchange 2007 Yearbook, I find Rhode Island Eight Rowed Flint, with the following description: "118 days, tall stalks to 8, some tinged with red, mostly white
    ears but some deep red, developed by the Narragansett Indians of Rhode Island."

    There is also listed a variety called Hubbard Flint, originally from VT " 90 days, stalks to 6, yellow kernels sometimes with red blush, 8 rows, from USDA-GRIN, Hubbard Family, Castleton, VT. I know thats quite a way from Cape Cod. But it is a native New England corn.

    There are a couple more VT flint varieties listed. But, if I recall, your climate is a bit more gentle than VTs. I suspect that something like King Philip or King Philip Improved might be more like what you had there. The SSE description for King Philip Improved reads: 110 days flint/dent cross, mostly flint characteristics, 7-8 stalks, 10-12" ears of 8 row copper color kernels, very popular in the 1850s onward in northern latitudes of Northern Indian origin and "improved" by John Brown, a farmer on Long Island in Lake Winnepesaukee, New Hampshire." (I dont understand that last part about Long Island and NH.)

    There are flour corns which would grow well in Cape Cod, Im sure. But as far as being regional, the closest I see in the 2007 yearbook is Tuscarora Flour corn. If I were you Id contact Glenn and Linda Drowns. Glenns name shows up in the source listings of many of these corns. Check out http://www.sandhillpreservation.com/catalog/corn.html too. They have a fantastic listing of corns.

    I remember another corn, a flint, from your area. But Im having trouble remembering correctly. It is either called Rhode Island Red Cap, or Rhode Island White Cap.

    Incidentally, I grew a Mexican flour corn when we lived down there. Flour corn makes really GOOD roasting ears!

    Good news! Coon dont particularly go for non sweet corn, especially if anyone nearby has sweet corn. I have never had problem with coon getting in to my corn, even though, at the same time its coming on, I have had trouble with them getting into my poultry sheds.

    Hope this helps!

    George

  • marquette
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Macmex,
    This is a great thread. And it arrived just as I was looking for this sort of information. Many thanks....also for the great snap shot!

    How many ears do you get per stalk on your Mesquakie? And how close do you seed? Would it grow in poor soil, or does it need good, rich loam? Any fertilizers needed? Many thanks for taking time to reply.

    I was looking for a non-sweet corn to grow for corn bread and another for pop corn. Any suggestions? (I'm on 41 latitude, South-East NY. Last frost: mid May; first frost: mid-to-late Oct.)

    ======

    It just dawned on me, why growing beans up corn is ingenious. As the beans twine around from one corn stalk to another, the beans knit the entire plot of corn stalks together making a strong 'structure' of the entire field. Corn and beans together become a structural element akin to the rafters that keep a house roof together. The structural element of beans and corn intertwined protect the crop from being downed by strong winds, rain, and hail.

    On the other hand, I never understood the logic of growing beans up corn if one needed access to picking ears at the milk stage, or beans at snap or shelly stage. I thought the twining, criss-crossing bean vines would prevent access except to the ears and beans along the periphery of the field.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marquette, I will try to get back to this latter today. Things are kind of busy here right now. I would think that Mesquakie Indian Corn would grow well for you. Calamus, IA; which is at least near where this corn was maintained for many years, is actually further north than you are. I'm south of you. But then, there are probably many options which would work for you.

    Generally I grow mine about 4-8" apart in rows about 3 1/2' apart, just so I can get in there with a hoe before the corn gets much past knee height. I did grow one patch REALLY close together with plants only about 4" apart and rows about 10" apart, as a sun and wind shield for a duck pen. It made a decent crop and only two plants lodged. In that patch I made sure to fertilize with much rotted compost. Normally I use little or no fertilizer, as this is what I plant when I'm just working a new plot. I've found it to produce 1 to 2 ears per stalk; more ones than twos. I suspect it would produce more with greater fertility. Our soil is pretty rocky, but fairly fertile with a clay base, yet with good drainage. Up in Calamus they have sand.

    I have to run!

    George

  • marquette
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Macmex,
    Many thanks for the very useful growing and other information. Calamus IA is @ 41.826 Latitude and 966 feet above sea level. We are @ 41.21 Latitude and 620 feet ASL, so the two locations are pretty compatible what that concerns.

    Our soil is loam (the large rocks were removed) and is as fertile as we make it with compost, wood chips, wood ash, manure, & leaves. During the growing season, I do add organic fertilizer when needed. Would like to switch to alfalfa meal, but can't find it.

    Don't worry about getting back soon; this can easily wait.....

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sounds like you have excellent soil!

    I suspect that your observations on the corn and beans combination is correct. I do not, however, plant as many beans in the corn as I could. Generally, with beans, I plant a couple on every so many feet of row, on the outside edges of the patch. To plant them on the interior I'd probably open up my spacing a bit more. Though, my cowpeas have done well down the middle.

    I don't know just how much structural stability they lend. But, neither do I have difficulty picking roasting ears.

    The absolute most exciting combination I've tried, at least for our Oklahoma conditions, is corn and cowpeas! I'll post a great link on this, below.

    Just in case someone reads this thread and doesn't notice: there is a VERY GREAT difference between most of these non sweet corns and most sweet corns. Sweet corn usually has spindly weak stalks, compared to standard varieties. Therefore, be very careful about growing climbing beans or cowpeas on sweet corn. It can be done. But the most common comment I've heard, due to the use of sweet corn, is that "it simply isn't practical to grow beans on corn." Not true. You just have to use a suitable corn. In truth, I need at least one growing season to get a feel for almost any new variety of anything, but especially corn.

    George

  • pnbrown
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    George, you've gotten me excited to try corn again! After several years of simply giving up on it. Maybe, just maybe it was a case of not having the right variety.

    Thanks for the SSE references and I will try Sandhill for further advice. I'll definitely try the corn with cowpeas, and maybe some squash underneath, what the heck, right?

    Oh, for anyone else reading this who has trouble growing corn or doesn't have space but wants the genuine article for quickbreads and grits, check out Anson Mills in SC. They send grits and meal via mail-order. All heirloom southern white or yellow varieties. I make corn-bread from the fine grits - outstanding.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Glad to be of help! If you decide to grow squash under that corn, be sure to give a good deal more space between rows. My Mesquakie Indian Corn, when planted in rows 3 1/2 feet apart, makes a very shady interior in the patch. But I like this, since it pretty well chokes out the Bermuda grass and other weeds. This year's corn patches become the easiest part of the garden to prep for the coming year, since the weed population has been drastically cut.

    I've seen corn grown very successfully in the "three sisters" arrangement. Generally the corn is grown with quite a bit more space between rows. Often, it isn't grown in rows at all, but rather in individual hills (3-4 stalks hilled together in one spot and separated from other hills by some 3 1/2 feet or more). Some kinds of corn are not only better suited for this, but actually seem to require close contact with other corn plants, such in individual hills, in order to stand up correctly. They seem to hold on to one another. Anyway, when grown in this arrangement, one will get less corn per square foot, fewer beans per square foot and fewer squash per square foot, than if done in individual plantings. But, the overall harvest of all three together will be more for the space used, than if one had divided it up between the different crops and grown them separately.

    I should mention that it is commonly held that, in order to maintain a viable strain of corn (if one saves seed from year to year)one should save seed from at least 200 plants. I have always tried for a bare minimum of 300. For mixes, like some of these Indian corns, one should try for much larger plantings, if they want to maintain their variablity.

    This isn't as hard as it might sound. Just the block I planted, all squeezed together and stuck up against my duck pen (for shade) had very close to 200 plants and it didn't take up that much space; maybe 14' by 4'. Also, if one saves seed from year to year, it is really easy, at the time of planting, to take some seed from perhaps three or four years crops, and mix it before planting. This greatly increases the genetic base of the year's crop.

    In the thread "is corn worth the effort?" the point is well made that it is important to plant in blocks for the best pollination. I try for a least four rows to a block.

  • wayneg_2008
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the information in this thread. I have been gardening for years, growing mostly tomatoes, peppers, cukes, some squash the easy stuff.

    I would like to try corn. Here in New England we grow a lot of it, but I dont know what kind it is. Given the number of roadside stands, I assume its sweet corn (which I like). One of my motivations for trying corn is to increase my self-reliability. I figure that by being able to produce my own food and feed my family, at least to some degree, I reduce the chances of having to wait in a government food distribution line at the end of a National Guard truck next year.

    My questions: If I grow dent/flour corn for grinding, can I also grow sweet corn for eating? Or will this play havoc with the pollination? Also, how do you toast the corn? Shuck it first, then roast it over charcoal? How/when do you store it before/after picking? Do you grind it immediately after picking?

    Thank you.

  • pnbrown
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That's interesting, George. According to material at ansonmills flour and dent corns grind much better after frezing also. Apparently it used to be common to leave the corn on the stalk until it froze in the field, at least in the south. I guess that would kill larvae also.

    I'm guessing the northern flint corns were harvested before freezing, because by then snow could make getting into the fields difficult. But the ears would have frozen in the corn-cribs, I would think.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I bet your right. After all, there was a time when homesteaders didn't have freezers!

  • fliptx
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yeah, Weevil Meal doesn't sound very appetizing!

    George, I've had a craving for corn bread ever since you first posted this thread. I finally went and got some stone-ground whole corn meal and made two batches in two days.

  • marquette
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would like to say a thing or two about ground corn. Hope it is useful information.

    The minute corn is ground, it begins a slow deterioration. For superior taste and nutrition, Macmex's method of grinding the whole kernels just before using the flour is the ultimate method for max taste and nutrition.

    It doesn't take long for ground corn to loose its good, fresh taste, and during prolonged storage, you might see it go rancid. An exception might be if the ground product is stored in a freezer, but that's costly.

    If interested in purchasing a grinder, here's a survey/comparison of various grinders: http://waltonfeed.com/self/grind5.html

    For other grain mills, Ebay has a slew of options.

    Kuenst manufactures a handcranked as well as various motorized mills
    http://www.srv.net/~kuest/products.html

    The KitchenAid brand offers a grain mill attachment to its stand mixer. (Pls. don't mistake the food mill for the grain mill. The food mill grinds meat not grains.)
    http://www.fantes.com/kitchenaid_grain_mill.htm

  • pnbrown
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My cornbread:

    two cups whole meal or fine grits w/two teaspoons baking powder and some salt.

    One cup yogurt whisked smooth with one quarter cup oil and one quarter cup water.

    Turn the wet and dry together lightly and pop into well-greased pre-heated cast-iron muffin pan.

    Excellento!

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Great recipe! I sometimes use kefir and it really does make for an excellent cornbread.

    I wish that everyone reading this could smell the kernels roasting in the oven. It would be as good an advertisement for this practice, as the smell of coffee outside a café.

    I too, get hungry for cornbread when I read or write about growing corn for meal or grits. Marquette, thanks for the info on grinders, and on fresh grinding corn. Guess we stumbled on something good without fully understanding it!

  • farmerdilla
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Macmex, You stirred up some memories. Parched corn was once a staple for less affluent mid south southerners. Lee's army marched on it as field rations. I don't want to go back to my formative years,( the great depression) but parched corn is quite good when one is hungry.A lot better than cornmeal mush, the other staple of those years.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Farmerdilla, tell us, is parched corn, as you describe, in the whole kernel, or is it ground? My family enjoys eating the whole kernel corn, like a snack, after it has been toasted. You know, this doesn't seem to the the first time that I thought we were innovative, only to have you inform me that we're reinventing the wheel!

  • gonefishin
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    George et.al. I also enjoy this thread and it brings back memories to me, some of which I mentioned above. Many people nowdays like the sweet corn and want to have water boiling on the stove before going out to pick an ear of corn. There is not a thing at all wrong with that if that is what one enjoys most. On the other hand (while I do like boiled corn) I prefer ears of corn (field corn) roasted in the oven and thought that is why they were called roasting ears. I like the parched flavor too, and we always called roasted peanuts, parched peanuts. All brings back memories of very pleasant kitchen odors that you have alluded to.

    I know that Pemmican is generally regarded as powdered up dried beef jerkey like the Indians did it. But something kept nagging my mind about something that I read many years ago about using corn in a similar manner. A little research turned up the following meatless pemmican, which sounds like it would be very good.

    I have also hunted for a really good baked corn dish recipe for sometime without finding a suitable one.
    Bill P.

    MEATLESS PEMMICAN
    1/2 cup raisins
    1/2 cup dried pumpkin or squash
    1/2 cup peanuts
    1/2 cup acorn or cornmeal
    1/2 cup hickory nuts
    1/3 cup honey or maple syrup
    1/2 cup dried apples

    In order to make sure that the acorn or cornmeal is bone-dry, spread it in a thin layer on a cookie sheet and place it in a warm oven for 15 to 30 minutes, checking frequently. The oven should be at the lowest possible setting. Then combine the dry ingredients and either chop them with a knife or grind them coarsely through a food grinder. Add the honey or maple syrup and blend thoroughly. Divide the mixture into 1/4-cup portions, press into cakes, and store in the refrigerator.

    Watch out! Such fiber will have a 'bathroom' effect, and it will be very high energy from the sugars in the honey and fruit. However, the excellent fats and proteins from the nuts will help counter the over-abundance of energy.

    Commercial meatless pemmican, various flavors:

    Bear Valley
    http://www.mealpack.com/products.html

    Available at most health-food grocery stores and backpacking outdoor stores

  • farmerdilla
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This recipe is pretty close to the old way of making parched corn. Remember poor folks did have ovens, cooked over an open fire or a fireplace, so the iron skillet saw a lot of use. In my neck of the woods, we used flint corn,which half pops. Just put in a skillet greased with a little lard (all we had in those days) and put it over the fire until the corn was brown and crispy. Look a lot like the porcorn that did not completly pop. I have never tried it but I understand that the eastern tribes dry roasted thiers ( no fat). Not sure how they did it as they had neither ovens or skillets.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is all very good info! My Mesquakie Indian corn also pops (poorly) when toasted in the oven.

    I'm going to try that pemmican recipe!

    "I have never tried it but I understand that the eastern tribes dry roasted theirs (no fat). Not sure how they did it as they had neither ovens or skillets"

    I bet they used a dished out stone in the coals of a fire. I believe I've seen such stones before.

    George

  • shot
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Have really enjoyed reading this thread. I live in Georgia and have heard that it is getting hard to find corn meal in grocery stores. I am considering purchasing a grinder as I grow some white field corn that I was told is an old variety that was grown for meal. The kernels are large and flat and has a lot of shucks on it. (not proper word, but you know what I mean) I think this helps protect it from predators and weevils. I hand shelled a five gallon bucket for seed for the coming season.

    macmex, you mentioned grinding your own corn meal and I was wondering if you could tell me what kind of grinder you use. I checked out some of the links mentioned and most were for flour.
    KitchenAid makes an attachment for their mixer for $150, but we don't have a KitchenAid mixer.

    Thanks in advance for any help.

    Shot in Georgia

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I use a hand grinder like what is commonly used in Mexico, for grinding hominy to make tortillas. Can't recall the brand, offhand, but I remember the most popular brand was called "Corona." Years ago my wife and I purchased one, in a food specialty shop, in Ohio. So I know they have them in the USA. But our present grinder was actually purchased in Mexico, when we lived there. This kind of grinder is not good for grinding wheat flour, as it doesn't grind it fine enough. In fact, to grind corn meal, the way I like it, I have to toast the corn first. This makes it grind better.

    Perhaps someone else can give the name and source for a good all purpose grinder Shot could get.

    We also have a Vitamix, which was given to us. But to grind flour with it we need a special attachment. We don't have it. That's one more thing on the list of things to do : )

    George
    Tahlequah, OK

  • pnbrown
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The Corona mill is still made, though I think the company changed its name. Look for it in the Lehman's catalog, I saw it recently. Still a very good bargain, best grinder for short money without a doubt. If you get very serious about grinding, then you need the Diamant, made in denmark, can be used by hand or attached to a motor. I think it's around $700 now, also available at lehmans. I wouldn't waste your money on any of the mid-priced grinders.

    Hey, so I planted Hickory King here in central fla about 18 days ago - the sprouts are 5-6 inches high and looking pretty good. The cowpeas are coming up around them also. I'm going to be leaving it all on its own and hope that the peas will be sufficient weed suppression and that the unseasonable rains keep up in a timely fashion! I'm going to try the same variety back in Mass in a couple months.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Pnbrown. I'm out of touch with these things.

    If you can hill (hoe) that corn when it's about 15" tall, that should really help it to make it. Last spring I planted some Mesquakie Indian corn, at church (where I have my office), on a pile of construction rubble, mixed with soil. That mound received no irrigation or cultivation and my corn only got about 3' tall. But I did get a harvest. Yours should do a lot better, unless I miss my guess.

    Shot, that corn you're growing sounds nice. Sounds like you might have a local heirloom. The heavier husks are indeed considered to help resist ear worms.

    George

  • shot
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks George & Mr. Brown. I found both the Corona and the Lehman's grinders and both are reasonably priced.

    I have never heard of Hickory King (no news there) so I found a picture of it on the internet and it looked like what I have been growing. Had my wife go out and take a snap of mine and here it is.

    Shot

    {{gwi:8942}}

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nice looking corn Shot. I don't have experience with Hickory King. But maybe someone else, here, does. At any rate, if it is a locally preserved strain, chances are that it's going to do a bit better for you than corn from somewhere else.

    George

  • pnbrown
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hickory King is supposedly an old-time southern heirloom, so it's entirely possible that a local Georgia strain would be it - or a variant. Supposed to be good for fresh eating and for grits. I wish I could be around to hill it up at fifteen inches, but I'm leaving tomorrow. Maybe I'll hill em up a little today, short as they are.

    It'll be interesting to see how field corn works in florida. Corn planted around this time would be presumably trying to cure up right when the weather is getting extremely hot and humid with daily thunderstorms and maximum insect activity. It's hard to imagine that it could dry properly, but the pioneers planted their corn in the spring season and they depended on it to eat. Their descendants are still around so I guess it worked........

  • shot
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    George, thanks for the compliement on the corn. Thanks to the internet, I was able to do some research on the Hickory King corn. It appears that it dates back to the 1800's and is great for roasting ears as well as corn meal. Last year my stalks got to about 12 feet high. I am 6 feet talk and some ears I actually had to reach up to pull. Year before last I planted some away from the house for winter grazing for deer and in the spring when I went to burn the field off, I found ears still in tack that were even suitable for seed. Would have thought the weevils would have eaten it up by then.

    I'm sure PnBrown knows a lot more about Hickory King. Wonder if it will grow in Oklahoma.... BTW: I am in central Georgia. I usually plant some field corn along with some sweet corn (Silver Queen) and this year I am going to include Peaches & Cream (SE).

    George, I noticed you moved to the country also as I did after I retired from Florida.
    Nice to meet you sir.

    Shot

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nice to meet you too, Shot. It's been wonderful to have more space (and sun, since we used to live in a heavily wooded place). This is going to be our third gardening season here, and just as I thought, it's taken this many seasons to get the whole main garden, as I originally fenced it, into complete cultivation. I'm speaking somewhat optimistically, since at this point, it isn't. It just looks like we're going to make it :)

    This year I'm also planning on growing out a Cherokee corn, such as was carried here over the Trail of Tears. I probably have the distance to be able to safely isolate. But will count on widely separated planting dates instead.

    Hickory King sounds like a very practical corn. It would be great if more folk would adopt a variety and grow it out.

    George

  • pnbrown
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In truth I don't know anything about hickory king other than what the catalog described. Just trying to have a successful corn growing event either in florida or here on the cape. I'll use this thread to keep y'all posted....

  • shot
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    G'day to all! A Chamber of Commerce day here in central Georgia. Been out in the workshop building a table for a farmer friend of mine and starting to get in the short rows with it. The same table on the internet sells for $549 with shipping. Just a token of appreciation for all the help that my life long friends do for me and my family.

    I am chomping at the bit to get started planting. Corn will probably be the first thing I plant as it can handle a frost and keep on ticking. Yall mentioned earlier about planting cowpeas in the corn. I tried it, but didn't care for it as corn loves nitrogen and peas don't need much of it or you get a lot of vines and not many peas. Plus, my favorite cowpea is Red Rippers and they make a heck of a bush with runners. It gets too 'snakey' to harvest either of them!

    I live near Eastman, Georgia (Home of Stuckey's candies) and buy my seed at a local home garden center (Chas Mar) as they have a good selection and are reasonably priced compared to ordering from the internet. Soon I will be taking my wife down there to choose the peas and beans she wants me to plant this season. My wife was born and raised in Jacksonville, Florida, but loves the country. It does my heart good to see her so pleased at looking at the different kinds and making choices. Getting all sloppy now... lol

    Mr. Brown, I have a friend that lives in Avon Park, Florida (below Orlando) that loves gardening too and wonder if your 'winter home' is near there?

    George, we should keep quiet about the country life... hee hee We might not be in the country long if the word gets out...

    Shot

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey folks, I thought I'd revive this thread and post some pictures of the two corns I grew this year. Of course we grew Mesquakie Indian Corn, of which I wrote above. But this year, as we were trying to help a local Cherokee historical garden, I secured seed to Cherokee Squaw Corn. I gave half the seed to the historical garden folk and planted about 227 plants from the rest of the seed. It did quite well. I'll grow it again. Just have to time my plantings so that the two kinds don't cross.

    Here's a picture of the Mesquakie Indian corn
    {{gwi:8943}}

    Here's a picture of the Cherokee Squaw Corn. This corn is primarily Blue, with white kernels mixed in. The kernels are much larger than that of Mesquakie Indian corn. Pictures don't do this corn credit. It is BEAUTIFUL!
    {{gwi:8944}}

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hello? I posted and yet I can't find this thread in the Vegetable forum.

  • sassymesclunsalad
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    bump

  • P POD
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Macmex was looking for his old thread....

  • rosieo
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Great thread, thanks!

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