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codym17

stone or treated wood or cedar for raised garden bed

codym17
9 years ago

It seems that most people are using cedar or redwood for their garden beds. I would expect that treated woood would last longer? Is this because cedar looks nicer or does the treated lumbar harm the soil? Going to build 3 or 4 beds this spring. Cant make up my mind if i want to do stones, cedar or treated lumbar...

Comments (20)

  • shermthewerm
    9 years ago

    When we bought our house there were rotting cedar raised beds which we removed. A few years later we decided to invest in raised beds, and we were asking the same questions. Pressure treated lumber was ruled out because of the chemicals. We chose concrete pavers over the cedar, because we'd already seen what the wood would end up looking like! We do much of our gardening in our front yard, so we wanted it to look nice and since we don't plan on moving we wanted it to last.

  • shermthewerm
    9 years ago

    Different year, same bed.

  • seysonn
    9 years ago

    Definitely stone or concrete blocks are the best if you can afford it.
    Although new treated woods are not as bad as old ones, but not recommended for vegetable beds.

    Cedar lumber is a good reasonable option economically and aesthetically.
    Here in PNW cedar lumber costs are reasonable. I buy 9/16" x 5 1/2" x 6ft for about $2.25 a piece. With 6 of them I make a 3ft by 6ft bed. Adding corner support (2" x 2" cedar) and screws. each bed (18 sq-ft) costs under $20. Another thing is that it is easy to build. I can build 3 of them in one day. Even if they last 5 to 10 years, it is not cost prohibited.
    If you opt to use thicker cedar lumber, the cost will be roughly double

    Seysonn

  • codym17
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    That is one of the nicer raised beds ive seen. I might have to go that route.

  • Donna
    9 years ago

    That is a lovely garden. I used the fan shaped concrete blocks that you can stack without using any mortar for my raised beds. They form oval shapes because of the front curve on the blocks. I love them. They will never need replacing.

    If you watch Lowe's and Home Depot ads they usually have specials on these kinds of materials in the spring. I actually bought enough for the first row or two of blocks in my beds the first year, and then got the rest the next year. It worked just fine.

  • jwag4321
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I am an organic gardener. I use raised beds, prevents compacted soil due to traffic in garden, can do square foot gardening, saves on amount of organic matter needed to keep soil healthy, back saving - need that at 65. I only shop grocery stores that can bag in brn bags because I cut them open use paint roller brush to apply used cooking oil. The coated bags decompose in one year. I cut "X's" and plant home raised veggy&flower in the X - weed control (labor saver big time). Wooden raised beds- Oh Boy- in Florida life expectancy 2-?yrs maybe. Termites and moisture death of wood. Some woods will resist, key word resist, longer. Cost, life expectancy, labor involved to replace (I like gardening not creating extra work for myself) so I have explored ways to save the wood (daughter joined Green Peace sooo I leave the Wales to her ha ha). The Japanese technique is my answer I think. I have a Dragon flame thrower, torch, sounds bad but is safe haven't burnt down the neighborhood yet, and I char EVERY inch of the Pine board, the cheapest wood, termites will not attack charred wood. To address the moisture problem I am experimenting with used cooking oil, soy wax, paraffin wax. Will post results periodically. P.S. I only use BT and Diatomaceous Earth, sometimes very diluted soap water for bugs must protect the Bees. November 22,2015

  • daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
    8 years ago

    I have no qualms about using modern (non-CCA) pressure treated wood in vegetable garden borders. While CCA-treated wood leached arsenic, which is really bad stuff, it actually didn't leach much, and that arsenic was highly immobile in soils, especially alkaline ones. What's more, arsenic wouldn't get absorbed by plants at all unless they were phosphorous deficient. But just don't use PT wood that's more than a decade old. And definitely stay away from railroad ties and power poles! Those are hazardous waste soups. Modern commercial PT wood preservatives are entirely copper based, and human tolerance of copper in food and water is quite high. Again, that element is not very mobile in soil so, to the extent it leaches, it stays pretty close to the lumber it came from. In fact, I believe the amount of copper already in our bodies is not a lot different than the amount of copper that is taken up by plants near such lumber. That being said, certifiably organic gardens aren't supposed to use the stuff. Nor are they supposed to use lots of other pretty harmless stuff with scary sounding chemical names.

  • nancyjane_gardener
    8 years ago

    jwag, may I ask what the cooking oil on the bags does? Nancy

  • nancyjane_gardener
    8 years ago

    Thanks Dave. Nancy

  • Pumpkin (zone 10A)
    8 years ago

    I used the fan-shaped concrete blocks for my raised beds. It looks nice & seems sturdy. Leveling & doing the first course is payment for the longevity of the project. I leveled & set half of a first course today. Thing better last until kingdom-come.

  • shermthewerm
    8 years ago

    Marianne, that's exactly what my husband said--it had better last that long!

  • jwag4321
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    The used cooking oil, usually the kids save me the deep fry oil from turkey fryer, but have added left over from bacon cooking. The oil slowes the decomposition of the paper. The paper lasts about a good year only. If I use oil that has some of the left over bacon grease it tends to draw "paper chewing" animals so I put either grass clippings or mulch on top of paper. Before oiling punch some little holes in paper for drainage. I put the cut open prepared bag with a slit cut so I can slide it up under my blue berry bushes then cover with chopped up oak leaves, keeps the critters from attacking paper. My garden has a deer fence around it so layering something on top of paper not necessary but I still do because it adds more organic material to soil, reduces watering. My daughter while in town visiting saw me when I came in for a break from mowing the lawn with my self-propelled push mower. She found and bought me a riding mower, BUT, I like the push mower because it has a bag that catches the grass clippings, chops and picks up leaves. All valuable organic "food" for soil and cheap mulch, I use tat mower only when I need some "organic food" rest of time I use rider, the mind is willing it's the body that kinda limits me. I also use cardboard boxes cut to size between the raised beds in the pathways as weed control, holes punched and oiled with a little mulch on top til slippery stops. I look for the very least amount of color and printing on box sometimes I don't bother oiling them because I don't want to deplete my stash of oil. Boxes can be found at U-Haul in their recycle bin, Sam's, BJ's, dumpster diving behind some stores. Nov. 23,2015

  • jwag4321
    8 years ago

    Shou-Sufi-ban -- ancient japanese technique for preserving wood. One of the web sites that talkes about. sheilazezellerinteriors.com

  • rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
    8 years ago

    just a tweek on spelling: Shou-sugi-ban...

  • jwag4321
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Ok 7:16a.m. Central Florida. I am out of old candles to melt and apply over charred boards. After searching net for "organic" waterproofing ideas, methods because I think coating boards with cooking oil will require a re-coat in the future. I have searched the net for alternative "organic" methods. I found on youtube.com a beeswax "recipe" and growingvegetablegardens.com a "recipe" using paraffin, both use turpintine and linseed oil. With cost, carbon footprint, longevity of treatment as factors determining my decision what would be the responses from those of you on this site. I might add paraffin is a product of petroleum, true turpintine, gum turpintine, is just processed pine sap, and linseed oil comes from flax seed. I am wondering if soy wax could be a more cost effective substitute in the recipe. Any input welcomed. Nov. 24, 2015. Happy Thanksgiving BTW

  • jwag4321
    8 years ago

    Think I better bow out of this blog, everyone seems to be from pnw, pardon my ignorance I finally figured out that's pacific north west. Newbie goof. Although some problems are experienced in all areas, I think a Central Florida blog site might be more pertinent and educate me about problems I would have in my area. I did pick up some good info from you all though. By

  • theforgottenone1013 (SE MI zone 5b/6a)
    8 years ago

    To be honest, jwag4321, your waterproofing plans sound like an awful lot of work and expense to me. Just plain pine lasts for several seasons for me and I've got no problem using modern pressure treated wood for more longer lasting borders such as for those around berries.

    And not everyone here on this forum, or even the majority, are from the Pacific Northwest. There are folks from all over the states, Canada, and other countries around the world.

    Rodney

  • NHBabs z4b-5a NH
    8 years ago

    jwag4321 we are from all over, but for me right now, there's not a whole lot of gardening going on and I don't have raised beds a in my current garden so nothing to add to this thread. There is a Florida Gardening forum here on Garden Web, but also folks from FL who post here in the veggie forum.

  • jwag4321
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Thank you, Rodney, for clarifying that this site is not just pnw gardeners. I must admit it is a more active blog. The other Houzz site I found that had a LOT of Central Floridians on was 1. Lot of 2011 comments, 2. Tied up with a controversy over earth worms. The blogs were interesting, entertaining, and a little better then watching the grass grow. Just to satisfy my curiosity I found a site that gave analysis findings on NP&K contained in EW castings. My take on it was just like humans you are what you eat. Now your raised bed comment. Yes it is more work. My oldes daughter and I went dumpster diving for the original boards that I used for the raised bed and they showed me what termites and moisture can do in a verrry short time in a sub-tropical climate. Social Security Disability income and age can put a new twist on your list of objectives when approaching a project. Projects in General will have a better chance of being successful if care is taken in the preparation. You would not paint a room without first masking and putting down drop cloths to protect the different surfaces. I went through 70k for surgeries, medical supplies, living expenses, and still lost my house. I took the last 40k and bought a HUD foreclosure, 2007 manufactured home on 1/2 acre so I would not be homeless. I can spend all day in my yard and garden doing what is needed, takes me all day sometimes, but it is my physical and mental "health insurance" and cheaper than a gym. The location of the garden was non-negotiable, although I did manage to give it a north/south orientation, but the previous owner must have had a love affair with rocks because 1 1/2-2 in. below surface is a layer of stones. Hell will freeze over before I can excavate all of that from the garden site, tried, so raised beds some 12 in. high was necessary. Dumpster diving is out, daughter moved to another state, and I can't do it myself so I need to buy the cheapest boards but not have to replace ever. My most recent chuckle/saying is "I am taking my bad knees,no more operations, and my raised bed boards to the grave with me, proverbially speaking. In the past; I did invest in good tools, "toys", if you saw the video demonstrating the ancient japanese method of wood preservation they are using a big torch I have a Dragon torch, handy little critter, makes the job easy, kinda like watching grass grow. I use a battery operated drill to screw the boards together since hammers, nails and I do not get along. Voila, raised bed my "mixing bowl" for all things needed create good organic soil. :) :) Happy Turkey Day BTW to everyone. Nov. 26, 2015

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