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three3apples

I'm new to gardening and seeking advice

three3apples
9 years ago

Hello. We are in NE Ohio and want to plant a large vegetable and fruit garden this spring. My husband thinks we should plant several things in containers in the house in early spring and then plant the small seedlings in the ground once they are ready. Is this a good idea? We intend to have tomatoes, onions, lettuce, broccoli, cucumbers, zucchini, beets, herbs, strawberries and raspberries the first year. This will be a fenced garden (we are in the woods with lots of deer) and I'm thinking we should divide it into quadrants with railroad ties to keep things contained and orderly. I also want to make the garden look sort of colonial or early American in style and have it very orderly. Any advice would be wonderful. Thank you.

Comments (26)

  • laceyvail 6A, WV
    9 years ago

    If this is your first garden, start small and buy those plants that need to be started in the house. To start your own transplants for tomatoes and broccoli, etc, you really need a set up and you need to know what you're doing to get healthy transplants. Too much to handle at once. Buy them this year, learn basic gardening before trying to do it all.

    Also, don't plant too big a garden. Nothing discourages a new gardener more than having that first, too big, garden get out of hand.

  • laceyvail 6A, WV
    9 years ago

    If this is your first garden, start small and buy those plants that need to be started in the house. To start your own transplants for tomatoes and broccoli, etc, you really need a set up and you need to know what you're doing to get healthy transplants. Too much to handle at once. Buy them this year, learn basic gardening before trying to do it all.

    Also, don't plant too big a garden. Nothing discourages a new gardener more than having that first, too big, garden get out of hand.

  • theforgottenone1013 (SE MI zone 5b/6a)
    9 years ago

    Agree that you buying transplants rather than starting them yourselves would be a much better option for your first garden. But if you are dead set on starting them yourselves then I suggest doing some reading on the Growing From Seed and Growing Under Lights forums so you'll know what you're getting yourselves into.

    Lettuce, cucumbers, and zucchini can be direct sown and don't need to be started indoors. Although you can get a bit of a jump, maybe a few weeks, on the season if you do start them ahead of time. Strawberries (unless you plan on growing alpine strawberries) and raspberries are bought as plants. And beets do best direct sown.

    Rodney

  • wayne_5 zone 6a Central Indiana
    9 years ago

    Regular lettuce is usually best started by sowing the seeds out in the garden. However, I do start my earliest planting of red butterhead lettuce inside because it takes a while to maturity.

    I don't understand using railroad ties. If you are wanting a large garden, keep it open. I don't see the need and they might bite a bit down the road.

  • elisa_z5
    9 years ago

    Good suggestion to learn a bit about starting your own transplants before tackling it. It can be a really fun thing to do, especially if you're chomping at the bit to get started. And I find that my own transplants are often healthier than those I buy. (all I use is a sunny window.)
    But certainly, as laceyvail suggests, buying tomato and broccoli seedlings can be a great way to lessen the load of your first year gardening work.

    Some folks avoid rr ties in a veggie garden because of the creosote that leaches out of them.

    Don't forget deer need an 8 foot fence (but you probably already knew that!).

    Sounds like a fun family project -- I wish you all the best!
    And if for any reason you can't keep it as orderly as you had imagined, just remember that in early colonial America folks were pretty busy with surviving, so a few weeds here and there probably didn't bother anyone :)

  • zzackey
    9 years ago

    I would start some tomato seeds inside in 4 inch pots. Use a tray without drainage that you can empty the water out of. It's not that difficult. Just because you are new doesn't mean you are stupid. Plant your seeds barely below the soil and water. Easy on the water so you don't get damp off. You can plant your tomato seeds 7-8 weeks before your last frost date. Keep them in the sunniest window you have in the house. Slowly introduce them to full sun outside when it is warm enough. A few hours a day and them put them in the shade or bring them back inside. Homegrown tomatoes fare so much better than store bought. Less bugs and diseases.

  • three3apples
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    This is all very helpful advice. Thank you.

    I never would have known about the creosote. Our neighbors did tries this way. Yikes! Are raised beds best? If so, what's a safer material?

    I think I'll start some things from seeds and do some from small plants. I'm going to make a prioritized list with my husband and only begin some things this year and add more later once we get the hang of things.

  • zzackey
    9 years ago

    You will need fences on your gardens if you have deer.

  • Chris
    9 years ago

    Not sure how big of a garden you're planning, but you can get 8 foot redwood fence boards at home depot for about $6. I have a few 8x4 beds that cost less than $20 for the lumber.

    Redwood gets expensive for a large garden though.

  • daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
    9 years ago

    I will echo the good points about starting small. At least in the number of plants you put in. Sounds like you're anticipating deer, but in the woods there will be all sorts of pests, and you might do well with a less ambitious season in which you pretty much learn about who your enemies are, such that in subsequent years you'll have them held back or repelled. You'll also learn something about what your soil and garden conditions are likely to support. For example, if you plant more densely than the garden can support, you'll end up getting less produce than if you planted less densely. Think of this first year as a learning-the-ropes year. You want to be in the position of saying "we could do more next year!" rather than "we did too much this year!"

    Just as an aside be aware that the most popular varieties of raspberries won't bear on first-year canes.

  • lemonthyme
    9 years ago

    Have you seen the blog called "Early American Gardens"? Lots of good info about actual early gardens, though you may have to dig for it. Colonial Williamsburg has a blog about it's gardens too. They have some information on building trellises. I have grown tomatoes and other vining veggies on homemade teepee trellises in the past and found they work nicely and do give a colonial american feel to the garden. I am originally from Virginia, so the gardens at Colonial Williamsburg, Monticello, and Mount Vernon have been inspirational to me.

    You may want to do only one or two quadrants the first year so as not to be overwhelmed. If you are really keen to try starting seeds inside the first year, I don't see why you shouldn't go ahead and try it but you will need proper lighting and a bit of knowledge. In the garden, you can direct seed the cucumbers, beets, lettuce, zucchini, and some herbs (basil, parsley, cilantro/coriander, dill, borage, for example). Other herbs, especially the perennials, it will be best to buy as plants.

  • elisa_z5
    9 years ago

    Are raised beds best? No, your native soil is best. A soil test from your local extension office or one of the Universities that offer the test for $10 can give you an idea as to whether you need to adjust the ph or add anything that might be low. (don't waste your money on a home test when you can get a very accurate one for 10 bucks or free if your county offers them.) Or you can just plant and see how things do, and adjust in future years if you saw any problems.

    Have fun!

  • theforgottenone1013 (SE MI zone 5b/6a)
    9 years ago

    There are many reasons to plant in raised beds. If your native soil is very rocky, very poor, if the area you are growing in is low-lying or poorly draining, if you just want your garden to have definitive borders, if you have burrowing animals and need to use hardware cloth underneath the garden, etc.

    Choices for raised bed borders are numerous. Wood of all types, landscape timbers, bricks, cement blocks, composite decking, and many more. It's your choice. Each has their pros and cons. Or you can just mound up the soil and have no border.

    As Elisa said, raised beds aren't always best. It depends on your specific growing conditions, how you plan to garden, and how you want your garden to look.

    Rodney

  • wayne_5 zone 6a Central Indiana
    9 years ago

    I like raised beds without borders. I make wider raised beds that are walkable on...yes, yes, and yes.

  • wayne_5 zone 6a Central Indiana
    9 years ago

    I like raised beds without borders. I make wider raised beds that are walkable on...yes, yes, and yes.

  • ZachS. z5 Platteville, Colorado
    9 years ago

    I would second Rodney, it's all based on personal preference. I am in the process of phasing out my wooden raised beds and replacing them with the "mounded" beds. It gives me more room and eliminates some unnecessary walkways, for me. It all depends on what you have, and what you want to accomplish.

    As far as railroad ties go, I wouldn't get too worried. There is little danger IMO of using them and there is thread with people from both sides of the issue that may be useful if you are concerned.

    Here is a link that might be useful: RR tie thread

  • elisa_z5
    9 years ago

    Yes to mounded beds! It's the wooden boxed in beds with store bought soil mixes that I would never wish upon brand new gardeners with ambitious plans. (unless, of course, if there is one of the problems Rodney mentioned.)

    Mounded beds are simple: after you till, plan where you want your beds to be. Stand on one side and use a hoe to mound up the soil, then do the same thing on the other side. Helps with drainage, looks nice, gives you wide beds which increases planting space, etc.

  • pnbrown
    9 years ago

    In OH chances are you've got excellent soil, so I second the advice to simply start with that. There is still time to get a soil test.

    Also I second Wayne in saying don't disregard planting seed directly in the garden. Direct-seeded crops often out perform transplants. All legumes need to be direct-seeded, in any case.

  • melfield_wy
    9 years ago

    The best advise I can give you is: yes, you will have weeds. Lots of them. No matter what you do, you will have weeds and you will spend more time weeding than anything else in your garden. Every year we hear on this forum from first year gardeners who get discouraged by the weeds and the amount of time spent weeding. If you want a "contained and orderly garden" (so do I!), get your mind wrapped around weeds and dont get discouraged.

  • floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
    9 years ago

    'All legumes need to be direct-seeded, in any case.' I don't wish to confuse a newbie, and that is probably a good rule of thumb for your situation. But it isn't actually so. In climates like mine with long but cool growing seasons favas, runner beans and French beans are all often started inside. If we wait for the ground to be warm enough for germination we lose several weeks of growing time. They transplant just fine. The same is often said of squash which we also generally start indoors.

  • pnbrown
    9 years ago

    Squash transplants very well. Legumes not so good in my limited experience.

    For sure in OH there is nothing to be gained by not direct-seeding legumes. Spring gets warm so fast.

  • daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
    9 years ago

    As to direct seeding legumes or not direct seeding them, it's more about growth rate than survival. Squash won't survive a frost. legumes will. Handily, in fact. So you start squash indoors because if you put them out too early they might not survive.

  • floral_uk z.8/9 SW UK
    9 years ago

    I'm sure that in the OP's climate legumes will be best direct sown. I was just pointing that some of us start them inside, indeed have to start them inside. Favas and peas clearly can take low temps, indeed I often sow in November to over winter. I also start some favas in January to plant out in February. It just gives them a few weeks start. Runner beans will not take any frost at all. The problem in cool maritime climates is that the soil is not warm enough for runner or French beans to even think about germinating before about late May. By that time indoor started beans are already setting off up their poles. Later sowings go into the ground directly. When I say 'inside' I mean simply in a glass porch or on a window sill. I have no lights. Indoor starting also helps avoid slugs and mice. The latter in particular can destroy a whole sowing of newly sprouted favas in a night. They don't eat the beans until they germinate. Must taste better, I suppose. Then they eat the bean and toss aside the sprout. It's heartbreaking to see. Anyhow - back to the OP - I'm sure for a beginner direct sowing as much as possible is best.

  • wertach zone 7-B SC
    9 years ago

    Since you have deer, I would recommend getting a few motion sensor sprinklers instead of putting up a tall fence.

    I have bad deer problems and my Scarecrow sprinklers have solved it!

    The only time they have ever touched anything was the few times that I let the batteries go dead.

  • pnbrown
    9 years ago

    Flora, I imagine part of the issue for you is that you never get the hot summer weather that brings on super-fast growth. I'm in a cool spring climate as well, maybe not as cool as yours, but once the soil is good and warm the legumes grow at a whopping rate. Very often all kinds of direct-seeded crops catch up with or pass transplanted, IME.

    So yes, totally different climates round north america and the UK.

  • slowtolearn
    9 years ago

    If you have good soil, a nearby water source if needed, the free time so it doesn't become a "job" , I say go for it. What you learn this year , will guide you next year. A few years back I built 8 raised beds 5 feet wide by 50 feet long peaking at 3 feet in the center, with the help of a frontend loader. No borders , when mulched and everything growing I knew my time hadn't been wasted. Then the cicada killers moved in and dug hundreds of holes in the sides of each bed. Every time I watered , the paths between the beds would flood. I now have 1 raised bed , 1 foot tall, but a very big bed. Seems as though irregardless of best laid plans , life will find a way to test your will. I wish you the best of luck. Oh, and with those deer , I found that the fence should go up before they find that garden.

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