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Do you thin out plants that are 3 to pot

Anthony Nguyen
12 years ago

I've noticed at lots of nurserys, when I buy a pepper plant or tomato plant, they usually have 3 plants in a 4" or 6" pot. Do you just put the plant as is into the ground and follow spacing directions? Or cut down 2 of the 3 plants?

As in, put a 3 plant grouping 2-3 feet away from the next 3 tomato plant grouping?

Reason I ask is I'm actually growing my own seedlings and debating taking down my tomato plants from 3 in a 4" pot to 1 plant.

Comments (17)

  • bi11me
    12 years ago

    You have several options with multiple plants started in a single pot.

    You can plant them as-is and increase the spacing between groups, but you will need higher levels of fertility and water at each group of plants, and yield will vary, likely with smaller fruits and less of them.


    You can try to divide them and plant the individual plants at normal spacing, with the knowledge that divisions later in the growing season will likely set back their growth, depending on the crop and the amount of disturbance to the root system.

    You can cut back 2 of the plants, prolonging the time that the remaining plant will thrive in the pot and likely resulting in less transplant shock and a larger plant with a higher yield than either of the previous methods.

    Tomatoes react quite well to transplanting. If your seedlings are not too large, and you have space and pots for them, I would divide them into separate pots, planting them slightly deeper in slightly richer soil, and keep them growing on until it is time to take them to their permanent home.

  • digdirt2
    12 years ago

    I've noticed at lots of nurserys, when I buy a pepper plant or tomato plant, they usually have 3 plants in a 4" or 6" pot.

    That would be quite unusual IME as a commercial grower. The industry standard, the norm, is 1 tomato or pepper plant to a 4" pot. Now and then a second plant might escape notice and make it through to sales but it is rare. So I would question the quality of care the plants are getting at that nursery for a couple of reasons and would not buy them.

    First because it indicates they are starting their seeds in that 4" pot which is never a good idea. Then they aren't doing any transplanting to trigger fibrous root development which is also not good for the plants. And lastly they are leaving the plants over-crowded and root entangled and so heavily stressed. Poor quality.

    Dave

  • aloha10
    12 years ago

    Good info/advice from digdirt. If the plants are quite small (immature) and if you have the lead time, You might get away with repotting them individually in separate pots and then planting into the ground later after they have a chance to develop their stronger, individual root systems. . Take a look at the videos on You Tube by
    NCTomatoman.

  • sunnibel7 Md 7
    12 years ago

    Dave, I'm interested to hear more about the transplanting to trigger fibrous root growth. I've never heard that mentioned before, could you explain more?

  • Anthony Nguyen
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Thanks all! Those NCTomatoman videos were very informative. Especially the one where he was transplanting his seedlings into 4" pots. I didn't know you could be so rough with them and they will still be fine.

  • Donna
    12 years ago

    Dave, ditto what sunnibel said. When starting my own tomatoes I have often started them in larger pots to avoid having to transplant them in the growing process...
    Please explain.

  • digdirt2
    12 years ago

    It is a frequent discussion over on the tomato forum and comes up on the market gardeners forum too. Search should pull them up if you search 'potting up' and some include pictures several of us have posted in the past. You can also take a look at nctomatoman's utube videos.

    Avoiding transplanting (potting up) is a convenience thing for the grower but detrimental for the plant. And starting seedlings in large containers has several potentially detrimental effects including root rot, stunting, insufficient root growth to support top growth, etc. There are current discussions on this over on the Growing from Seed forum here. Check out the FAQ here too on growing tomatoes from seed. Same applies to most all plants that are not direct seeded.

    It is the act of moving the seedling, exposing the roots to the air in the process, from the small germination container into a larger one that triggers the plant into developing fibrous feeder roots. Until then it has a single water root and lives off the cotyledon. The fibrous root development on a seedling that has been transplanted develops faster and quickly doubles in size. Since it is root development, not top growth, that is vital for seedling health and survival that transplanting process is very important.

    When you buy transplants in six-packs note the root development. Those 6 plants have already been transplanted at least once by the commercial grower and usually twice, the 2nd time was putting them into that 6 pack. That's why you should seldom see more than 1 plant in each cell/container.

    Dave

  • bi11me
    12 years ago

    In Dave's absence, I'll step in.

    As I understand it, when plants are transplanted, inevitably some damage to the roots will occur. For some crops, this causes major set-backs in growth. Bushes and flowers and fruit trees often have the recommendation to cut back some top-growth when transplanting, to reduce this set-back and induce the plant to invest energy in root development. When plants are pot-bound, you get the same advantage by cutting away the roots that start to circle the perimeter of the soil where it meets the pot. This encourages more outward growth when the plant is re-planted. With easily rooted plants, tomatoes being one, the plant reacts to this disturbance by sending out many small feeder roots, making a dense root mass that will take advantage of soil nutrients very efficiently. Tomatoes also have the ability to create new root growth from areas where stem tissue is in contact with soil, which is why many people choose to transplant much deeper than the original growth, or even to lay most of the plant almost horizontally in a trench, with just the upper growth exposed to sunlight. This is a good practice for those with shallow topsoil, heavy subsoil, or high water tables, creating a denser root mass in the upper layers where more nutrients and air are available. I try to get 2 transplantings done with tomatoes before they go in the ground. I start eggplant and peppers in small cells, but transplant them as small seedlings into larger pots, because my experience is that they don't handle the process as well. I start cucumbers in large pots, and try to transplant them well before the root system reaches the edges, and try to transplant on cloudy afternoons, because they seem most sensitive to root disturbance. The youger the plant, the more able they are to recover from transplant shock.

    Dave will hopefully edit me for accuracy.

  • sunnibel7 Md 7
    12 years ago

    Fascinating, thanks both of you. I've always started my tomatoes (and most everything else) in small and moved to larger, and in springs that are not cooperative even larger containers before final set out, but I did it for the sake of the balance between moisture levels and amount of root. I did not know I was also triggering the growth of feeder roots. I wonder if that is triggered early on if using the baggie method of seed germination or if maybe that's too soon... Guess I'll head over to some other forums and see what I can glean.

    Cheers!

  • missingtheobvious
    12 years ago

    I transplanted tomatoes from 4" Bonnie pots last year, planting extra-deep to encourage more root development. I removed some suckers; I left some suckers. For the most part I tried to remove suckers that were going to be below the soil level.

    One small sucker I pulled off came with a couple of roots. I thought, Oh, why not? Tomatoes are tough! and planted it. It eventually caught up with the parent plant and gave me some good tomatoes (Red Beefsteak). They were a favorite of all the folks I shared them with, so I was glad to have two.

    Then there was the Black Krim. It was difficult to tell what was going on with it: maybe one plant with two stems. Maybe two plants -- but if so, definitely not possible to separate. I planted it as it was. When fruit ripened, it was obviously two tangled plants. The not-BK half was a wonderful-tasting clear-skinned, dark pink, egg-shaped fruit which bore no resemblance to any of the varieties Bonnie listed on their site last year. And in addition, it was markedly prolific. That unexpected tomato was the delight of a very difficult summer (gardening-wise and otherwise).

    You just never know.

  • bi11me
    12 years ago

    I am pretty careful not to plant any leaf tissue below the ground, because it will die, and may present a source for disease to enter. Once my tomatoes are about 2' high, I remove all growth about 12" up the stem above ground level.

  • Donna
    12 years ago

    This is so helpful, guys! I am starting tomato seeds today, so am glad I took time to search this thread out. I will definitely start them in small cells this year.

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    12 years ago

    I sow my seeds into heated germination flats and transplant, when ready, into cell packs. This was how I was taught to do it in college, how I did it when working for a commercial business, how I taught hundreds of students to do it, and how I did it myself when I was growing thousands of bedding and vegetable plants. I still do it this way, now that I'm only growing a few hundred plants. It's efficient, convenient, and beneficial for the plants.

    I can sow 100-200 seeds into one plastic flat. I heat mine with heating cables buried into the germination mix. My successful transplant rate from the crowded germination flat is exceedingly high, probably 98%. Young seedlings don't falter for one millisecond due to this second step...rather, they burst into rapid development. I use a much coarser potting mix for the cell packs, to be sure.

    The cells I use are either 36 or 48 to the sheet, plenty big enough for a hefty, sturdy plant ready for the 'real world'. They can stay in a cell that size for several weeks, waiting for conditions to be right. I feel no need for a larger finished plant. The smaller ones catch up to the larger in no time, anyway.

    Why do I propagate this way? The germination medium is, by necessity, fairly fine textured (ProMix) and I absolutely do NOT want to grow any plants in that stuff for more than a few days after germination. The few flats that I heat take up very little space and once transplanted, I'll only use 9 or 10 liners filled with the cells. That makes it easy enough for me to take them outside during the day and bring them back in at night, if the temperatures are too low.

    Seedlings are much tougher than people realize. When grown properly, their stems are sturdy and springy. Though I sow them VERY close together in the flat, they prise apart very readily and without detectible damage. The filled cell packs will be pre-drilled with little holes so that the seedlings plop right in. I do one flat at a time, watering them in thoroughly with my misting nozzle when done.

    One thing to remember is that root systems will regenerate and regrow rapidly. This is true for all kinds of plants. As a matter of fact, root pruning is how we encourage a flush of new root growth in woody plants and houseplants. The fibrous roots of young bedding plants are not likely to cause the seedlings any problems at all during a proper transplant process.

    Here is a link that might be useful: flats and cell packs

  • Donna
    12 years ago

    You have convinced me, rhizo. I sowed my tomatoes today in six packs, three seeds to a section. (I was starting a dozen each of 20 varieties.) When they have their first set of leaves, I will Prick them out into six packs, except one plant per spot. Sound right?

    This is very interesting to me. Last fall when I started my pansies, the wind caught my seed packet and deposited about 1500 seeds into my bag of potting mix. So, I scooped them out as best I could and sowed them into flats as you describe, pricking them out into cells a bit later. I have always sowed them one seed at a time to each cell. Well, lo and behold, I had the best transplants ever! Now I guess I know why.

    Do you do the same thing with peppers and eggplants? How about zinnias and other things that are described as "resents transplanting"?

  • Anthony Nguyen
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Hi donna, heres a good video that some of the other people were talking about by NCTomatoMan.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLbeZEcz3sw&feature=related

    I've read that people can dense germinate then should deep plant peppers also. Not sure about eggplants.

    Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLbeZEcz3sw&feature=related

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    12 years ago

    donna...I sow ALL my seed into the flats...or all of the seeds that do not get sown directly into the soil. Every single zinnia, and you know how I like my zinnias! Most of the seeds are sown in straight rows that I make with a straight-edge of some sort. I insert a plant stake into each row where ever a new plant variety starts. That way, I can have five different kinds of zinnia, all in one flat and not get them mixed up.

    Attached in a little sketch from Park seed that is fairly representative of how the germination flat might look. In reality, the seeds are sown much closer together.

    Don't forget that the flat gets heated during the germination process. Once the seeds are up, the heating cables are unplugged.

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:16501}}

  • Donna
    12 years ago

    That video was fantastic! I don't know if I could have believed it without seeing it! Hey, everyone who's afraid of "breaking" your seedlings, this is a must watch!

    Thank you, rhizo. Zinnias, too, huh? Well, I am going to try it. I was waiting on them till I heard from you. Wish me luck!

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