Last year I just set up a couple 2x2's, spaced about 14 feet apart, and strung bailing twine horizontally about every 9-12". I held up the 2x2's with twine tied to my fence posts (stakes would probably work too). And I pounded the 2x2's in a couple inches, so the bottoms wouldn't get pulled in. It was really cheap, and worked pretty well. Poly twine is about $30 for 20,000 feet, and if you can find some saplings to replace the 2x2's, you can support a lot of plants on a really tight budget. I used 14 foot spacing, because that's how long my rows were. They could probably be spaced a little farther. But if the rows were much longer, they'd probably need an extra pole in the middle.

I did a similar thing for tomatoes, but used single horizontal lines (with lots of slack, so they would be stronger), with vertical lines tied to them. I also angled the poles outward to take strain off the supporting twine, and save space. I'll draw some diagrams, and post them when I have some time, if anyone's interested. The cost was less than 20 cents/plant for the first year, including the 2x2's. And depending on how long the stuff lasts, the cost can be spread out over more than one season.

Melons can be vertically trained rather easily, but you need proper support for the melons fruits unless you want them to bring the fruits or trellis down from wind/weight. They sell expanding fruit holding bags for this, but if your trellis isn't designed to hold the weight the whole thing will come down. Watermelons, even smaller ones, are a huge challenge for this, though.

I should have mentioned, I wasn't supporting anything really heavy with the horizontally spaced lines. Mainly just beans. And a few squash that managed to find their way to the trellis. I had to design the tomato supports differently, because of the weight. This year, I'll probably design something specifically for small melons and squash.

I only use the tomato cages for eggplant and peppers. They collapse under my tomatoes.
I use heavy duty hog wire for my tomatoes. It's a one time purchase as it lasts for years! It also has large openings to reach through to pick.I sink posts at each end of the beds and zig zag the wire through the bed.
Besides tomatoes, I haven't grown anything that needs a lot of support, but I did find a roll of that plastic fencing (usually in orange around building areas) in green at the dump recycling store for $5. I'm going to use that for melons this year.

I use 6 ft heavy concrete reinforcement wire to make my cages for squash. It works great. Of course I am very careful to have high potassium in the soil for roots early. Then nitrogen not until later. Otherwise the vines become too leggy. I keep the training low until the blooms turn into females with short stems. I mainly grow butternut. The vine will support them fine. I use 6 ft rebar driven 2 feet deep to tie the cages to. This keeps the vines off the ground where I can prevent fungus and insects.

Having tried a number of supports over various years in various places I like the nylon net best for my vining things.

The best method I've found to support it is to plant sturdy posts at each end of the desired trellis area and mount either a coated, steel cable (with a tightener), or a crosspiece between the posts. Then I use wire ties to fasten the net to the cable/crosspiece and tent stakes to secure to the ground.

This does very well for both things that climb by twining (beans), and things that climb by tossing out those little grabbers (cucurbits).

In some soils -- heavy, rocky, compact, ... -- you will be able to set the posts solidly with only some rocks as extra reinforcement. In lighter soils or where high winds are frequent you'll need to set them in concrete.

The main issue for me with this setup is the initial capital investment since strong posts, quality cable, and netting are not cheap by the standards of my budget.

A little planning will enable you to plot a rotation so that you can grow different crops each year on the permanent trellises.

T-posts and that green-coated wire fence do well enough for a set-up that isn't permanently mounted but is less convenient to pick since you have to walk around instead of reach through. Again cost can be a serious issue.

I haven't found that melons or vining squash are very enthusiastic about climbing instead of running along the ground so you have to go out every few days while they're young and feed the vine tips through the net openings until they get the idea. But they get grabbier as they get branchy later on. When I was a kid my dad planted the pumpkins at the bottom of the garden and allowed the vines to climb the lilac bushes when they ran out of space.

I don't see how bush squash could be made to climb at all since the vines are so stubby and the fruit is borne right at the heart of the plant.

I have to emphasize the need for STURDY posts that are solidly-seated in the ground. You don't want the heartbreak of having an entire trellis go over in a thunderstorm then, having gotten it back upright, discovering that more than half your plants were broken off at the ground. :-(

iam3 - I don't seat my posts in the ground, because with my method it isn't necessary. And it would actually make them more prone to breaking. Mine only need compression strength, so cheap 2x2's work pretty well. I also bought some 2x3's, but that may be overkill. I'm going to post some drawings, as soon as I get some time. Hopefully early next week. It all depends on my work schedule.

I'll be interested in seeing those drawings. I've never found a truly stable, freestanding design but a good one would be considerably less work and offer considerably more flexibility than the permanently mounted posts and cables/crosspieces.

Well I do container gardening. How would you do this set up for the plants in containers? I generally use the big containers for any type of squash (30 gallons or bigger).

You say the vines for compact, bush varieties of squash are stubby. Well I grew a bush type of butternut squash and the plant and vines were sprawling all over the container with no support.

The one question I have about any of these, is will they be too big to fit into my containers? If so, how could I modify the size of them so they'd fit into my containers, but so they'd still be big enough and sturdy enough to support the weight of the fruit and vines?

The nylon netting is exactly what I was thinking of getting, from burpee. Greenegarden you said you used concrete reinforcement wire for supporting the vines for squash, melons, etc. However is this also sturdy enough to support the weight of the fruit? The varieties of squash and melons I grow are between 2-4 lbs (per fruit). The melons are smaller, only 2-3 lbs. per fruit. But how exactly do you make them into supports? I mean, how do you shape them? Into cages, or into a trellis. Somebody said that not only the material used for the trellis/cages has to be sturdy, but the poles used to support them have to be as well. What would people here recommend for this?

I also found this article about how to build a vining obelisk. It says it's for use on bean plants and pea plants, however would it be sturdy enough to support the weight of the fruit and vines for squash? Here are instructions for how to build it:

However, would this be too big to fit into a container? I realize this depends on the size of the container being used, the ones I generally use for squash are 30 gallons or bigger. If it's too big to fit into the container, is there anyway I could modify the size to make it smaller to fit the size of the container, yet at the same time it still be sturdy enough to support the weight of the vines and fruit?

My question with the obelisk is would the use of bamboo poles/canes be too flimsy? If so, what could I use as a substitute that would be sturdy enough?

For this simple obelisk that will end up about 6-feet tall you will need: four bamboo canes, each 8 feet long, saw; hammer; sturdy string, like packing cord or a nylon-based cord; scissors and ladder. The night before, water the area deeply to make inserting the poles easier. The objective is to build a pole structure that is square at the base with the poles meeting at the top, and string is wrapped around the structure to create support for vining plants.

Step 1

Cut one end of each pole at at a 45-degree angle. This creates a pointed tip that will be easier to hammer into the ground.

Step 2

Hammer a single pole into the ground at a about a 65-degree, which is 3/4's of a right angle. Pound the pole in at least 1 foot (2 feet is better). The angle does not have to be exact. A greater angle will make the obelisk slightly taller and require the other 3 poles to be closer together; a lesser angle would make it slightly shorter with the poles further apart.

Step 3

Place a second pole about 16 inches from the first pole and hammer it in, also at a 65-degree angle.

Step 4

Repeat Step 3 for the other two poles. The distance apart does not have to be exact, but try to get the tops to cross at the same location. You should now have the framework of a simple obelisk.

Step 5

Wrap cord around the four poles where they meet at the top.

Step 6

Create vertical support using the cord. Secure the end of the cord to one pole about 2 inches above ground level. Stretch the cord to the next pole about 4 inches above ground level, wrap around the pole and move on to
the next pole and about 6 inches above ground. Wrap around the 3rd pole and proceed back to first and up 2 inches more. At the first pole where you started, you should now have another wrap at 10 inches above ground level. Continue wrap the cord around the tepee structure, gradually increasing the level of the cord as the spiral gets higher.

There are also instructions I found for this, which is essentially a wooden trellis. However it recommends cedar, do I have to use this, or could I go with some other type of wood that would be adequate? My only concern with cedar is that I'm on a budget, and I know it'll be pricier.

Once again my concerns would be would it be too big to fit the size of my containers and if so, could I modify it by making it smaller, without compensating on the sturdiness of supporting the weight of the vines and fruit by making it smaller.

The nylon netting I'd use would be from a gardening catalog, either burpee or parkseed. Supposedly these are both very sturdy, and can support the weight of heavy crops, such as squash and melons?

As far as tomatoes go, this is what I was thinking of using for them as far as supporting the weight of the fruit.

However would they be too flimsy and/or crush the plants?

Here is the link; NOTE: you'll have manually copy and paste it into your internet browser, then press 'send'. I don't know how to get garden web to just post it as a normal link where you can just click on it and it'll redirect you the site just by clicking on the link.

http://www.parkseed.com/gardening/PD/6883/

Where do you find concrete reinforcement wire?

Iam3killerherbs, could you post a photo of how you set this up? I really am a visual learner, so you just describing it to me, I don't really understand it. I'd have to see
how you set it up, in order to get an idea of how to do so myself.

I've never been happy with tomato cages. I've tried a few different support techniques over the years while also always trying to be cheap without being "cheap".

I've tried bamboo. I hate the stuff. I it never seems to be strong enough for what I want to do.

For things like Peppers, I have these green plastic coated metal stakes I picked up somewhere (WalMart probably) that I place in the ground next to the pepper and use this twist tie like material you can buy by the spool at most garden places to tie the pepper stem loosely to the stake. Works great for smaller plants.

For larger plants, as a few of the suggestions here have indicated, you need to consider where you're planting (or putting your containers) and then look around that space for sturdy vertical fixtures - do you have a nearby fence? Building? Tree? Trellis? Porch overhang? etc. If you do, you probably want to consider how you can use that to potentially provide support for what you're growing. Examples of what I've done:

I used a chain link fence to support a PVC frame I used to go up about 6-7 feed in the air down the length of the fence. I then tied twine to the top of the frame every foot and ran it down to the ground where I would wind it around my tomatoes and eventually tie a very loose noose at the base (have to leave that trunk plenty of room to get bigger).

I did container gardening on a wooden deck 10ft off the ground one year. Said deck had this overhead wooden railing structure of sorts that I tied my strings to and once again used to support my tomatoes. It made a beautiful "living wall" of tomato plants. I got a lot of compliments from the neighbors on that one.

I've used a variety of "posts" be it a metal stake, 2x2, or something else from which I attach a string at the top, and then run it down and wind it around a tomato plant. This has worked well.

I've used 2x4s as vertical posts with 2x4s across the top and additional 2x4 supports about every 8 feet and then run string from it to once again support tomatoes.

This year, now that I have a lot more space, after a lot of thinking about it, I intend to put up some posts (still questioning whether to do wood and replace them every so often or just put in metal), and then put in some "cattle panel" between the posts. No strings and the panel is strong enough there shouldn't be to much pull trying to drag the posts inwards - I just need the posts strong enough to be able to keep the panel up. I suspect this is much as some of the suggestions above for things like the concrete reinforcing wire.

On the rebar - what thickness did you use and how did you drive it in the ground (and how far and what's your ground like)?

Vertical growing of melons is something I've never tried and find daunting due to the size, weight, etc. involved. Some melons like muskmelon are also pretty well know for "slipping" from the vine when they're ripe, so even if the vine could take the weight, you'd still have to support them.

I never recall saying they have to be trained to climb vertically. I just need something to support the vines, something for them to climb on, or they'll sprawl all over the place. I would prefer the fruit to be off the ground (not in the middle of the air, just slightly off the ground; I heard just letting fruit drag on the ground with melons or squash isn't a good thing).

I have a very small space for gardening. There is a walkway in my backyard, that's pretty much my gardening space. It's not very big; a couple feet long horizontally, and that's it.

There are no trellises or fences where I garden either.

Whatever ideas you're suggesting it would really help if you could post some sort of picture. Just describing it doesn't really help at all, it's clear-as-mud to me that way.

Whatever ideas people have in mind for supports is fine, it's just in order to apply them or try them, I'd need to see it. I'm a visual learner. You can talk to me about it till you're blue-in-the-face, and it's not going to make any sense to me.

I didn't really use any sorts of poles (bamboo stakes, dowels, wire, etc.) for what I did grow with squash. I just let the plant take its course with growing and the thing
sprawled all over the place; this was with 'compact bush types, that supposedly have shorter vines'.

The setup I described was for garden rows. I have no clue how one could provide stable trellises for containers but I have seen container gardening books available at Lowes and Home Depot that probably have trellised container projects.

I was referring to the stubby vines of the bush summer squashes. When it comes to winter squash, "bush" is a relative term. The vines sprawl, but they are short compared to the 10, 15, or 25-foot vines the regular varieties.

Unless the area is very wet or the surface is very abrasive squash and melons do just fine sitting on the ground. Due to their weight this is the customary way of growing and vertical methods are mainly used by the severely space-challenged. :-)

Good luck with whatever you end up.

'Whatever ideas you're suggesting it would really help if you could post some sort of picture. Just describing it doesn't really help at all, it's clear-as-mud to me that way.'

That also applies to you kawaiineko_gardener. You are asking a lot of questions on these forums, often not mentioning that you are gardening in containers and jumping from one topic to another. You theorise about techniques and you often don't answer some of the questions you are asked. If we had a realistic idea of how much space you really have maybe you could get some help you could use. At the moment lots of people are patiently putting a lot of effort into careful, detailed replies but it doesn't seem to be what you want.

You say you don't have much space and yet you are asking questions as if you have acres to grow a multiplicity of crops. I'm afraid that as you flit from one idea to another and don't really appear to absorb the replies you are beginning to look like someone who doesn't really want to DO any gardening, just to keep chewing over the theory.

I recommend you actually start gardening and stop agonising over it.

As for supporting your plants in pots. There is no CORRECT way to do it. Get them growing and you will see their habit and growth rate. It is not rocket science to rig up some sort of sticks, twine, or whatever comes to mind. The plants won't mind!

He goes on like this every year. I get a kick out of reading some of the stuff he is asking. Everyone jumps in to try to help but yet he keeps going on and on.

IF YOU CANNOT STAND MY POSTS SO MUCH AND YOU HATE ME SO MUCH THEN DON'T POST ON MY THREAD! FIRST YOU ASSUME THAT ALL I'M DOING IS PLANNING AND PLANNING AND HAVE NEVER ATTEMPTED TO GROW STUFF BECAUSE I'M TOO PARANOID TO DO SO!

THEN YOU TREAT ME LIKE CRAP FOR ASKING QUESTIONS I DON'T UNDERSTAND BECAUSE THEY'RE BASIC KNOWLEDGE TO YOU, AND YOU ASSUME EVERYBODY SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THIS WITH GARDENING!

THAT BECAUSE YOU ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT SOMETHING THAT MAKES YOU STUPID AND A RETARD!

NOW I DO GARDEN AND HAVE ATTEMPTED TO DO SO IN THE PAST, AND YOU'RE STILL TREATING ME LIKE CRAP! I GAVE YOU THE INFORMATION YOU ASKED FOR! YOU ASKED WHAT MY AVAILABLE SPACE WITH GARDENING IS, AND I TOLD YOU SO DON'T THROW IT MY FACE THAT I DIDN'T PROVIDE THE INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT INFO WAS REQUESTED WHEN I DID!

NOBODY HERE EVEN BOTHERED TO ASK WHAT METHOD OF GARDENING I WAS USING EITHER SO I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE AT FAULT FOR THAT! SURE I OMITTED INFORMATION REGARDING MY METHOD OF GARDENING, BUT YOU JUST ASSUMED I WAS DOING ROW GARDENING IN THE GROUND BASED ON THE METHODS THAT WERE SUGGESTED!
IF SOMEBODY HAD BOTHERED TO ASK 'WHAT METHOD OF GARDENING ARE YOU USING' AT THE BEGINNING OF THE THREAD I WOULD'VE TOLD YOU BUT NOBODY DID OR MADE MENTION OF IT!

I WOULDN'T HAVE TO MAKE THE SAME POST 50 TIMES IF SOMEBODY WOULD ANSWER THE QUESTIONS I ASKED ON THE FIRST THREAD I MADE ABOUT IT! INSTEAD HALF THE TIME I GET ALL THE INFORMATION AND ANSWERS I COULD WANT, BUT IT'S NOT ABOUT WHAT I ASKED!

I just answer the post with the hope that it will be of some help. Why get excited? It is not my place to educate or worry about the learning curve. I also do not answer the same question multiple times If I think I gave a good clear answer. Kawa is right if you do not like it do not answer and please do not get mad. There is good entertainment value here!
Kawa: NO NEED TO SHOUT I AM NOT BLIND !!!!!!!

I remember when I first started to use a computer (15 years ago) I would type all my emails in CAPITALS because I thought it made them more readable...finally my son kindly informed me that by doing this, I was SHOUTING...oops!

kawaiineko_gardener I found this while doing a search for trellises for you.

kawaiineko_gardener please don't take this the wrong way. I just want you to understand where some people are coming from. There are lots of good people here who enjoy helping others. It takes time and some of them spend half an hour or longer, sometimes much longer writing a reply to help you or others. Sometimes they ignore other things they need to do out of this desire to help. If the person they are trying to help does not provide enough information or if their curiosity never gets sated. If they just keep asking and asking and asking and asking questions. Then they feel like all the effort and the sacrifice of their time was wasted. Some perhaps have gotten frustrated and resentful.

I'm not saying their attitude is right. But before you ask a zillion questions for which there is no absolute right answer. Keep in mind that you are asking people to take time away from other things to help you. You should do your best to make their time count by being as informative as you can.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:11634}}

You could also try going over to the container gardening forum. I've seen some great pictures that may help you. NT

Pictures....

Link attached. These are a variety of situations, some where the plants did well, others not so well due to circumstances which had nothing to do with the support system. All of these support systems worked for me and I would consider again with the exception of the bamboo poles - and that method works fine as long as you use something other than bamboo. I don't like bamboo.

For the peppers being supported by stakes, if you look closely, you can just see the green twist tie in a few of these that was used to secure the pepper plant to the support.

When I took these pictures (these are all old), I didn't do it for the purpose of capturing the plant suspension, so the pictures don't always show everything I would like them to in this particular case. They seem to be the best I have though for looking at the suspension. I'm sorry I don't have better.

The photos are high res and may take a while to download. I left them that way in hopes you could get a better look at the detail if you wanted to. Just click on the individual file names to view the photos.

Feel free to ask any questions you may have.

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden support systems

I posted a message in the tomato forum about my tomato support method, with a link to an article with pictures, in case anyone's interested.

Here is a link that might be useful: Easy, cheap method for supporting tomato plants